Oil....
Specifics
Posts: 417
So, for me, we went to Iraq to free the Oil, that we all need in order to operate, from the clutches of muslim extremists (ok, to put it into the hands of British/American extremists but thats another thread possibly, about turning your back on all extremists ).
This has to be accepted on a certain level as a legitimate reason, survival of the fittest, i can accept that.
And i did accept that, untill I thought about the possibility and likelyhood of they're being very successful technologies out there, that would in effect make the need for Oil obsolete, these technologies probably being held back by companies with a vested interest in keeping Oil profitable.
Does this then place the blood of many on the hands of the Oil companies and they're profit margins?
Discuss...
This has to be accepted on a certain level as a legitimate reason, survival of the fittest, i can accept that.
And i did accept that, untill I thought about the possibility and likelyhood of they're being very successful technologies out there, that would in effect make the need for Oil obsolete, these technologies probably being held back by companies with a vested interest in keeping Oil profitable.
Does this then place the blood of many on the hands of the Oil companies and they're profit margins?
Discuss...
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
How did you reach this conclusion? Iraq was not run by "muslim extremists" before the war. Secondly, Iraqi oil was already effectively controlled by the UN following the first Gulf War.
Yikes.
If you want to follow this logic, you just put 15 gallons of blood in your car.
We can blame greedy oil companies and OPEC all we want but it is us who dont do shit to change the system.
Yeah thats a good point Voice, i mean sure we have to take responsbility for our own actions, im all about that.
But dont we elect people to watch this for us so that we can get on with doing what we have to do with our day, ie: a day job to survive
And again, sure we have to elect the right people in that case, and then take action to the best of our abilities if they dont represent us in the way we want.
Thats all deep, and a much bigger argument, i just wanted to see what people thought about the role of the Oil companies in the current climate, and your points on that are cool too.
P.S. Farfromglorified, i dont engage in petty, lets see who can make themselves sound intelligent "debates", and especially when the person initiating it doesnt even bother to try to comprehend what im saying in the first place.
your statement is 100% false.
Iraq is a member of OPEC. so Iraq's production means nothing in terms of what you are saying. OPEC still decides how much oil is on the market regardless of Iraq's production.
What oil companies are you referring too? american companies? no matter what company is pumping and refining oil, supply will still be set by OPEC and price will be determined on the open market based on supply and demand.
Since Iraq is a member of Opec and we control Iraq i guess that now America has a say in Opec. would that be too far feched.
I think thats an interesting angle, one worth comparing to what i see.
I like it thank you.
Thanks for showing us ur IQ too JLew, i learnt much from that also.
I'll assume you are being condescending. care to tell me how I'm wrong?
we dont control Iraqs oil. we never have and never will. and America will never have a say at any OPEC meeting.
I believe this is called a dodge.
FFG made some fair points that were directly targetted to what you were saying. I believe he fully comprehended what you were saying in the first place.
If you think that there are alternatives that should be funded, place your money where your mouth is. But if you keep pumping gas into your car, you've got culpability, too.
not even in an indirect way. I mean that fake goverment they are trying to implement wont be influenced by America in anyway. cmon
Can you please explain what I'm not comprehending? You posted an opinion, supported by two faulty premises (1. Iraqi was dominated or perceived to be dominated by Muslim extremists & 2. Iraqi oil was controlled by the Iraqi regime). Furthermore, your conclusion about oil companies having blood on their hands would require a further premise that someone can have blood on their hands without actually killing anyone, but rather by using another to kill for their own gain. The logical extension of that premise would make you guilty as well, since you use the oil companies to buy gasoline.
I believe this, too. Luckily, there really is nothing stopping us from making investments in companies doing this research.
Who has to wait for what? If you are waiting for oil companies to become something other than oil companies, then yes, it will be a wait. If you are waiting for gov't to take the lead, then yes, it will be a wait. But there are people now, all around this country, and globally, who are innovating on their own.
I agree with this as well, which is why I don't bitch about oil companies. In fact, I recognize my dependence upon oil, and am therefore happy that it is reasonably priced, and current supplies are more than sufficient.
I dont mean to say that you are wrong, i dont much care if you are right or wrong. From the posts i have read, your politics are based on wording, memory skills and ridicule of others as proof of intelligence, thats fine, i mean no offence. I like to look at things from the angle of human nature and how this affects what happens behind the official documents, deals, laws etc.
So in effect you dont interest me, again i mean no offence.
in terms of oil production? sure. America wants Iraq to pump out as much oil as it can. hell maybe it doesnt. its completely irrelevant.
OPEC still decides how much is released, not america.
OPEC has said publicly they want the price of oil to stay above $50. thats their policy. the global economy has shown it can sustain a healthy economy even with expensive gas prices.
the greedy fucks who control oil, Algeria, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Libya, Nigeria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, and Venezuela, determine output.
sometimes its good to debate with facts instead of opinions. no matter how much you tell yourself your right, doesnt make it so.
so i'm glad you know i'm not wrong. it would have been difficult to explain to someone like yourself the complexities of the oil market. thanks for showing your IQ. or lack thereof
Ok, thats fair enough
"Culpability":
And:
Iraq held, i was led to believe at the start of military action, very close ties to Bin Laden and therefore Al Quaeda, not my belief personally, but the factory label.
Iraqi Oil effectively controlled by the UN? Not as effectively as it is now controlled by?? if you like OPEC
Err, "whats up scoob?!" i guess
This is exactly why im trying to get something meaningfull on this issue from perceptive people who care, in order that i can change my life accordingly, and am not interested in a pissing contest with soundbite happy yanks.
Hope this satisfies
Im sure you meant no offence, knowing me like you do. And yes, spare me the complexities of the Oil market.
I'm not sure you sold you that load of horseshit, but even the Bush administration's only shred of evidence of a connection was the meeting of one man in Baghdad on one occassion. There was no link between Al Qaeda and Iraq.
Iraqi Oil is now less controlled by the West. UN sanctions on oil are gone. Iraq is an OPEC member but is not subject to OPEC rules as of 1998 and therefore has little influence within the group.
Ok, then what is your standard? If you believe that oil companies are killing over Iraqi oil, would it not be meaningful to switch to an ethanol vehicle or a bike or something along that lines? I mean, if the oil companies have blood on their hands surely you do as well for supporting them which would mean that you must want to immediately stop paying for their murders, right?
I think you have me mixed up with someone "educated" as a "patriot". I didnt wish to discuss my disgust at the sanctimony of the American administration, or my belief that it is as much an extremist organisation as any of the "Axis of Evil" nations. Lets leave that for a different board.
Not subject to OPEC rules? Western friendly government installed? Less controlled by the west? are you now the one tryin to "sell me horseshit"?
I would "immediately" like to not be restrained by the NEED to travel to work to make money in order to feed and live. However the real world puts me in a position where i have to make such decisions based on what i can afford, which is controlled by the prices put on things by whoever does. I'm not rich, maybe you are? and maybe this is the root of the communication breakdown, because right now i dont comprehend where you are coming from.
You said you were "led to believe" that Al Qaeda had close ties to Iraq. Who led you to believe that and how?
Just because there is a western-friendly government does not mean we control their oil. Iraqi oil revenues, pre-war, were predominantely controlled by the west via the UN. Now, Iraqi oil revenues are controlled by a corrupt and hapless Iraqi government wherein the West has little operational influence.
I'm sure oil companies would also like to not be restrained by the NEED to satisfy investors in order to make money. Perhaps they're waiting for someone else to solve their problems for them too.
Anyone have anything interesting on this subject?
would love to discuss this with you but your orginal post is so far off you wont hear any arguments otherwise.
neither are true. saddam wasnt a muslim extremists, he was a saddam extremist. oil wasnt put into the hands of america/britian. Iraq controls it.
you make it sound like Iraq is the only country in the world that produces oil. and we invaded in order to survive. are you crazy?
there are successful technologies out there. just not successful enough to replace oil. and they arent being held back by oil companies. they are being held back by lack of demand for hybrid vehicles and ability to make alternatives such as E85 distributable to all of americans. and even that is 15% gas.
no. like far said, you should stop using oil. oil companies are just supplying a product that is in high demand.
Then you go on to discuss it with me, is that typical JLew?
A Saddam Extremist? thats profound! i never expressed the opinion, i dont hold that opinion but i've already made that point clear in a previous post, research.
Iraq controls it? thats reassuring then, because that clears USA/Britain of harbouring any desire to control it for themselves and totally negates it as a reason for military action ( thats sarcasm ; sarcasm = meaning exactly the opposite to what you say)
Do have no ability to read between the lines? when i said survival of the fittest i didnt mean we needed it to survive but im really not gonna explain that one. ( i wonder if this will be the only quote you reply to?)
I can only apologise, i didnt realise that America's infrastructure was so backward that they can only distribute Oil over the entire country. You really think that this is the only alternative? then i have nothing to say. ( ah, maybe you can just quote this one)
I use my vote to elect people who i think will get me closer to the possibility of living my life to my ideals. I have to work to live. If they cannot do this then i have to do what i have to do. If im going to take action it will be to do more than use my bike more.
Dont forget the smarmy comment in your reply, you let me down on this one :-)
just trying to get some intelligence out of you. I'm always up for a good challenge.
guess I should have researched for 15 posts. my bad. and yes Iraq controls Iraqi oil
I'm trying my best. your superior knowledge memorizes me.
its not only America's infrastructure. trying to distribute a new resource to tens of thousands of gas stations doesnt happen overnight.
sure there are more alternatives, I used one as an example for the sake of the argument.
love to know what that is. probably nothing. but hey, you can always talk a big game.
there isnt much point in debating this with you. you dont understand the oil market. but hey, please feel free to insert some witty comments.
I dont have an indefatiguable stamina for talking absolute rubbish. Maybe i would have to sing the national anthem every morning to build up my stamina.
Damn you love to try though!!
Dont be confused by the above comment, i dont respect that.
Its the main problem with a lot of Americans attitudes, that they love the effect of their own voice above actual empathy for a situation or real intelligence, that i suspect will mean the disastrous effects of the attempted "American Empire", thankfully, will survive for only a tiny fraction of the effects of the great visionary empires of the past.
Just one thing:
One example doesnt even nearly satisfy the argument, in fact it shows total ignorance of the whole point.
never said it did. just trying to dumb it down for you.
You may want to try The Porch or All Encompassing Trip forums on this board. They may be better suited to your style. Especially if you're not interested in vigorous debate, but rather are seeking empathy and affirmation.