Oil....

Specifics

So, for me, we went to Iraq to free the Oil, that we all need in order to operate, from the clutches of muslim extremists (ok, to put it into the hands of British/American extremists but thats another thread possibly, about turning your back on all extremists ).
This has to be accepted on a certain level as a legitimate reason, survival of the fittest, i can accept that.
And i did accept that, untill I thought about the possibility and likelyhood of they're being very successful technologies out there, that would in effect make the need for Oil obsolete, these technologies probably being held back by companies with a vested interest in keeping Oil profitable.
Does this then place the blood of many on the hands of the Oil companies and they're profit margins?
Discuss...

farfromglorified

Specifics wrote:

So, for me, we went to Iraq to free the Oil, that we all need in order to operate, from the clutches of muslim extremists (ok, to put it into the hands of British/American extremists but thats another thread possibly, about turning your back on all extremists ).

How did you reach this conclusion? Iraq was not run by "muslim extremists" before the war. Secondly, Iraqi oil was already effectively controlled by the UN following the first Gulf War.

This has to be accepted on a certain level as a legitimate reason, survival of the fittest, i can accept that.

Yikes.

And i did accept that, untill I thought about the possibility and likelyhood of they're being very successful technologies out there, that would in effect make the need for Oil obsolete, these technologies probably being held back by companies with a vested interest in keeping Oil profitable.
Does this then place the blood of many on the hands of the Oil companies and they're profit margins?
Discuss...

If you want to follow this logic, you just put 15 gallons of blood in your car.

TheVoiceInside

yes the global economy runs on oil. it is of vital importance that the pump is well protected. But greedy oil companies do have alot to do with Iraq and yes they have alot of blood on their hands. I guess its the price we have to pay in order to have cheap gas. Is it worth it? I dont think so. There are new energy technologies that we can invest in so that we dont depend on oil. it can be done but there is too much money to be made before that and we will just have to wait.

We can blame greedy oil companies and OPEC all we want but it is us who dont do shit to change the system.

qtegirl

I heard a theory before that maybe, just maybe, the oil companies want control of Iraq's oil, not to make more oil, but to make less. Right now, the supply-demand balance is very favorable to the supply side, keeping prices up and profits very high for the oil companies. If Iraq were able to ramp up production the price of oil would fall and profits would decrease.

Specifics

TheVoiceInside wrote:

yes the global economy runs on oil. it is of vital importance that the pump is well protected. But greedy oil companies do have alot to do with Iraq and yes they have alot of blood on their hands. I guess its the price we have to pay in order to have cheap gas. Is it worth it? I dont think so. There are new energy technologies that we can invest in so that we dont depend on oil. it can be done but there is too much money to be made before that and we will just have to wait.

We can blame greedy oil companies and OPEC all we want but it is us who dont do shit to change the system.

Yeah thats a good point Voice, i mean sure we have to take responsbility for our own actions, im all about that.
But dont we elect people to watch this for us so that we can get on with doing what we have to do with our day, ie: a day job to survive
And again, sure we have to elect the right people in that case, and then take action to the best of our abilities if they dont represent us in the way we want.
Thats all deep, and a much bigger argument, i just wanted to see what people thought about the role of the Oil companies in the current climate, and your points on that are cool too.

P.S. Farfromglorified, i dont engage in petty, lets see who can make themselves sound intelligent "debates", and especially when the person initiating it doesnt even bother to try to comprehend what im saying in the first place.

jlew24asu

qtegirl wrote:

I heard a theory before that maybe, just maybe, the oil companies want control of Iraq's oil, not to make more oil, but to make less. Right now, the supply-demand balance is very favorable to the supply side, keeping prices up and profits very high for the oil companies. If Iraq were able to ramp up production the price of oil would fall and profits would decrease.

your statement is 100% false.

Iraq is a member of OPEC. so Iraq's production means nothing in terms of what you are saying. OPEC still decides how much oil is on the market regardless of Iraq's production.

What oil companies are you referring too? american companies? no matter what company is pumping and refining oil, supply will still be set by OPEC and price will be determined on the open market based on supply and demand.

TheVoiceInside

jlew24asu wrote:

your statement is 100% false.

Iraq is a member of OPEC. so Iraq's production means nothing in terms of what you are saying. OPEC still decides how much oil is on the market regardless of Iraq's production.

What oil companies are you referring too? american companies? no matter what company is pumping and refining oil, supply will still be set by OPEC and price will be determined on the open market based on supply and demand.

Since Iraq is a member of Opec and we control Iraq i guess that now America has a say in Opec. would that be too far feched.

Specifics

qtegirl wrote:

I heard a theory before that maybe, just maybe, the oil companies want control of Iraq's oil, not to make more oil, but to make less. Right now, the supply-demand balance is very favorable to the supply side, keeping prices up and profits very high for the oil companies. If Iraq were able to ramp up production the price of oil would fall and profits would decrease.

I think thats an interesting angle, one worth comparing to what i see.
I like it thank you.

Thanks for showing us ur IQ too JLew, i learnt much from that also.

jlew24asu

Specifics wrote:

I think thats an interesting angle, one worth comparing to what i see.
I like it thank you.

Thanks for showing us ur IQ too JLew, i learnt much from that also.

I'll assume you are being condescending. care to tell me how I'm wrong?

jlew24asu

TheVoiceInside wrote:

Since Iraq is a member of Opec and we control Iraq i guess that now America has a say in Opec. would that be too far feched.

we dont control Iraqs oil. we never have and never will. and America will never have a say at any OPEC meeting.

jeffbr

Specifics wrote:

P.S. Farfromglorified, i dont engage in petty, lets see who can make themselves sound intelligent "debates", and especially when the person initiating it doesnt even bother to try to comprehend what im saying in the first place.

I believe this is called a dodge.

FFG made some fair points that were directly targetted to what you were saying. I believe he fully comprehended what you were saying in the first place.

If you think that there are alternatives that should be funded, place your money where your mouth is. But if you keep pumping gas into your car, you've got culpability, too.

TheVoiceInside

jlew24asu wrote:

we dont control Iraqs oil. we never have and never will. and America will never have a say at any OPEC meeting.

not even in an indirect way. I mean that fake goverment they are trying to implement wont be influenced by America in anyway. cmon

farfromglorified

Specifics wrote:

P.S. Farfromglorified, i dont engage in petty, lets see who can make themselves sound intelligent "debates", and especially when the person initiating it doesnt even bother to try to comprehend what im saying in the first place.

Can you please explain what I'm not comprehending? You posted an opinion, supported by two faulty premises (1. Iraqi was dominated or perceived to be dominated by Muslim extremists & 2. Iraqi oil was controlled by the Iraqi regime). Furthermore, your conclusion about oil companies having blood on their hands would require a further premise that someone can have blood on their hands without actually killing anyone, but rather by using another to kill for their own gain. The logical extension of that premise would make you guilty as well, since you use the oil companies to buy gasoline.

jeffbr

TheVoiceInside wrote:

There are new energy technologies that we can invest in so that we dont depend on oil.

I believe this, too. Luckily, there really is nothing stopping us from making investments in companies doing this research.

TheVoiceInside wrote:

it can be done but there is too much money to be made before that and we will just have to wait.

Who has to wait for what? If you are waiting for oil companies to become something other than oil companies, then yes, it will be a wait. If you are waiting for gov't to take the lead, then yes, it will be a wait. But there are people now, all around this country, and globally, who are innovating on their own.

TheVoiceInside wrote:

We can blame greedy oil companies and OPEC all we want but it is us who dont do shit to change the system.

I agree with this as well, which is why I don't bitch about oil companies. In fact, I recognize my dependence upon oil, and am therefore happy that it is reasonably priced, and current supplies are more than sufficient.

Specifics

jlew24asu wrote:

I'll assume you are being condescending. care to tell me how I'm wrong?

I dont mean to say that you are wrong, i dont much care if you are right or wrong. From the posts i have read, your politics are based on wording, memory skills and ridicule of others as proof of intelligence, thats fine, i mean no offence. I like to look at things from the angle of human nature and how this affects what happens behind the official documents, deals, laws etc.
So in effect you dont interest me, again i mean no offence.

jlew24asu

TheVoiceInside wrote:

not even in an indirect way. I mean that fake goverment they are trying to implement wont be influenced by America in anyway. cmon

in terms of oil production? sure. America wants Iraq to pump out as much oil as it can. hell maybe it doesnt. its completely irrelevant.

OPEC still decides how much is released, not america.

OPEC has said publicly they want the price of oil to stay above $50. thats their policy. the global economy has shown it can sustain a healthy economy even with expensive gas prices.

the greedy fucks who control oil, Algeria, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Libya, Nigeria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, and Venezuela, determine output.

jlew24asu

Specifics wrote:

I dont mean to say that you are wrong, i dont much care if you are right or wrong. From the posts i have read, your politics are based on wording, memory skills and ridicule of others as proof of intelligence, thats fine, i mean no offence. I like to look at things from the angle of human nature and how this affects what happens behind the official documents, deals, laws etc.
So in effect you dont interest me, again i mean no offence.

sometimes its good to debate with facts instead of opinions. no matter how much you tell yourself your right, doesnt make it so.

so i'm glad you know i'm not wrong. it would have been difficult to explain to someone like yourself the complexities of the oil market. thanks for showing your IQ. or lack thereof

Specifics

Jeffbr wrote:

I believe this is called a dodge.

FFG made some fair points that were directly targetted to what you were saying. I believe he fully comprehended what you were saying in the first place.

If you think that there are alternatives that should be funded, place your money where your mouth is. But if you keep pumping gas into your car, you've got culpability, too.
12-01-2006 11:31 AM.

Ok, thats fair enough

"Culpability":

Specifics wrote:

Yeah thats a good point Voice, i mean sure we have to take responsbility for our own actions, im all about that.
But dont we elect people to watch this for us so that we can get on with doing what we have to do with our day, ie: a day job to survive
And again, sure we have to elect the right people in that case, and then take action to the best of our abilities if they dont represent us in the way we want.
Thats all deep, and a much bigger argument, i just wanted to see what people thought about the role of the Oil companies in the current climate, and your points on that are cool too.

And:

farfromglorified wrote:

How did you reach this conclusion? Iraq was not run by "muslim extremists" before the war. Secondly, Iraqi oil was already effectively controlled by the UN following the first Gulf War.

Iraq held, i was led to believe at the start of military action, very close ties to Bin Laden and therefore Al Quaeda, not my belief personally, but the factory label.
Iraqi Oil effectively controlled by the UN? Not as effectively as it is now controlled by?? if you like OPEC

farfromglorified wrote:

Yikes.

Err, "whats up scoob?!" i guess

farfromglorified wrote:

If you want to follow this logic, you just put 15 gallons of blood in your car.

This is exactly why im trying to get something meaningfull on this issue from perceptive people who care, in order that i can change my life accordingly, and am not interested in a pissing contest with soundbite happy yanks.

Hope this satisfies

Specifics

jlew24asu wrote:

sometimes its good to debate with facts instead of opinions. no matter how much you tell yourself your right, doesnt make it so.

so i'm glad you know i'm not wrong. it would have been difficult to explain to someone like yourself the complexities of the oil market. thanks for showing your IQ. or lack thereof

Im sure you meant no offence, knowing me like you do. And yes, spare me the complexities of the Oil market.

farfromglorified

Specifics wrote:

Iraq held, i was led to believe at the start of military action, very close ties to Bin Laden and therefore Al Quaeda, not my belief personally, but the factory label.

I'm not sure you sold you that load of horseshit, but even the Bush administration's only shred of evidence of a connection was the meeting of one man in Baghdad on one occassion. There was no link between Al Qaeda and Iraq.

Iraqi Oil effectively controlled by the UN? Not as effectively as it is now controlled by?? if you like OPEC

Iraqi Oil is now less controlled by the West. UN sanctions on oil are gone. Iraq is an OPEC member but is not subject to OPEC rules as of 1998 and therefore has little influence within the group.

This is exactly why im trying to get something meaningfull on this issue from perceptive people who care, in order that i can change my life accordingly, and am not interested in a pissing contest with soundbite happy yanks.

Ok, then what is your standard? If you believe that oil companies are killing over Iraqi oil, would it not be meaningful to switch to an ethanol vehicle or a bike or something along that lines? I mean, if the oil companies have blood on their hands surely you do as well for supporting them which would mean that you must want to immediately stop paying for their murders, right?

Specifics

farfromglorified wrote:

I'm not sure you sold you that load of horseshit, but even the Bush administration's only shred of evidence of a connection was the meeting of one man in Baghdad on one occassion. There was no link between Al Qaeda and Iraq.

I think you have me mixed up with someone "educated" as a "patriot". I didnt wish to discuss my disgust at the sanctimony of the American administration, or my belief that it is as much an extremist organisation as any of the "Axis of Evil" nations. Lets leave that for a different board.

farfromglorified wrote:

Iraqi Oil is now less controlled by the West. UN sanctions on oil are gone. Iraq is an OPEC member but is not subject to OPEC rules as of 1998 and therefore has little influence within the group.

Not subject to OPEC rules? Western friendly government installed? Less controlled by the west? are you now the one tryin to "sell me horseshit"?

farfromglorified wrote:

Ok, then what is your standard? If you believe that oil companies are killing over Iraqi oil, would it not be meaningful to switch to an ethanol vehicle or a bike or something along that lines? I mean, if the oil companies have blood on their hands surely you do as well for supporting them which would mean that you must want to immediately stop paying for their murders, right?

I would "immediately" like to not be restrained by the NEED to travel to work to make money in order to feed and live. However the real world puts me in a position where i have to make such decisions based on what i can afford, which is controlled by the prices put on things by whoever does. I'm not rich, maybe you are? and maybe this is the root of the communication breakdown, because right now i dont comprehend where you are coming from.