54% of children in female-headed homes, and 10% of children in two-parent homes are living in poverty (Eggebeen & Lichter, 1991) Most African-American children live at some point in poverty (Brooks-Gunn, Klebanov, & Duncan, 1996) 65% of whom spent time in single-parent homes. (Teegartin, 1994).
Income level has no bearing on the ability to read. Children who go to school, do homework and have involved parents learn how to read just fine. It has nothing to do with how much money their parents make.
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
"What your government pays for it gets. When we understand that, then we look at government financed institutions of education and see the kind of students and kind of education that is being turned out by these government financed schools. Logic will tell you, that if what is being turned out in those schools was not in accord with what the state and federal government wanted then it would change it. The bottom line is that the government is getting what they have ordered. They do not want your children to be educated. They do not want you to think too much. That is why our country and our world has become so proliferated with entertainments, mass media, television shows, amusement parks, drugs, alcohol and every kind of entertainment to keep the human mind entertained. So that you don't get in the way of important people by doing too much thinking. You had better wake up and understand that there are people that are guiding your life and you don't even know it."
Some guy
Exactly, education has taken a back seat to entertainment. These same kids who cannot read can certainly quote their favorite musical stars verbatim. They have no trouble emulating what they find interesting. If the parents actually took the time to instill the value of learning into their children we wouldnt' be having this discussion.
Saying the govt. doesnt want kids to learn is absurd. The education system in our country is just fine. Kids who apply themselves have no problems learning and getting productive employment. The problems are with those who are not using the system to it's full.
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
Income level has no bearing on the ability to read. Children who go to school, do homework and have involved parents learn how to read just fine. It has nothing to do with how much money their parents make.
That's true, however the other parts of the studies Ahnimus presented show that some of the stresses in a low-income home life can hinder a child's learning ability.
That's true, however the other parts of the studies Ahnimus presented show that some of the stresses in a low-income home life can hinder a child's learning ability.
Yea, it was a prerequisite to how low-socialeconimic strata affects the home environment. You know what though, it's difficult to have a complete understanding without having all the facts.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
That's true, however the other parts of the studies Ahnimus presented show that some of the stresses in a low-income home life can hinder a child's learning ability.
I don't believe it hinders "ability" but rather utilization of that ability.
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
I don't believe it hinders "ability" but rather utilization of that ability.
Sounds like your suggesting that "ability" is an innate trait, something that is acquired at birth.
It certainly can't be true for reading comprehension and probably isn't true for anything else, especially of high-order cognition.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Sounds like your suggesting that "ability" is an innate trait, something that is acquired at birth.
It certainly can't be true for reading comprehension and probably isn't true for anything else, especially of high-order cognition.
definitely. One doesn't need to have a high IQ to read. Of course we all have different levels of ability, it doesn't mean that we cannot aquire basic knowledge.
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
Well, maternity leave is one way, the U.S. has poor maternity leave compared to other nations.
Perhaps though, we should reevaluate our standards of living. 50 years ago a single income couple could raise 9 kids, now it takes two incomes to raise one child. What's going on here?
You really dislike determinism. Well, I think your stuck with it bud.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
You really dislike determinism. Well, I think your stuck with it bud.
i have no particular dislike for it. i just find it amusing that you view it with the same all-encompassing reverence and worship that a christian gives to the bible... it holds all the answers and if everyone just believed as you believed the world would exist in perfect peace and harmony. it's never that simple. i'm dying to hear your objective theory on how determinism will cure poverty, complete with supporting evidence.
is it possible that some people are just incapable of learning?
I doubt that. It is possible for people to have learning disabilities. It may take them longer to learn. However, so long as a person is conscious, it's difficult to see how they would be incapable of learning. Consciousness involves several high-order cognitive functions such as language. It's possible one could be conscious without language, however, other such things as sight are learned by our neural networks independent of our conscious efforts. It may be that some neurobiological deficit causes a phenomenological learning deficit. However, based on the neurobiological, it's difficult for me to accept that a person could see, hear and speak without a capacity to learn at all.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I doubt that. It is possible for people to have learning disabilities. It may take them longer to learn. However, so long as a person is conscious, it's difficult to see how they would be incapable of learning. Consciousness involves several high-order cognitive functions such as language. It's possible one could be conscious without language, however, other such things as sight are learned by our neural networks independent of our conscious efforts. It may be that some neurobiological deficit causes a phenomenological learning deficit. However, based on the neurobiological, it's difficult for me to accept that a person could see, hear and speak without a capacity to learn at all.
but not impossible, right?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i have no particular dislike for it. i just find it amusing that you view it with the same all-encompassing reverence and worship that a christian gives to the bible... it holds all the answers and if everyone just believed as you believed the world would exist in perfect peace and harmony. it's never that simple. i'm dying to hear your objective theory on how determinism will cure poverty, complete with supporting evidence.
Determinism is all around you Soulsinging. It's determinism through capitalism that has enabled poverty. Determinism is just like any theory that doesn't involve mysteria, skyhooks or miracles. Time will show that determinism as a philosophical position is not incompatible with quantum theory either. Many already know this, but the majority have a misconception of quantum theory and determinism. They are very elusive concepts.
Anyway, capitalism is a deterministic system, and so is communism. A great simile for capitalism is the survival-of-the-fittest paradigm in evolution theory. Whereas communism might be more closely related to reciprocal altruism, at least at base. This works at least to illustrate a key point. Capitalism encourages poverty because the strong ascend to greater social statuses, while the weak descend into poverty. Whereas in communism everyone shares in the feast. In some primate species the alpha male actually provides food to the rest and watches while they eat. This isn't really reciprocal altruism per se, since the alpha male delights in being the alpha male and there is no reciprocity other than respect. There are downsides to both socioeconomic systems, everyone knows what's wrong with communism, it puts an 'elite' or an alpha group in charge of the food distribution. Whereas in a capitalist species the weak would perish and the strong would replicate their genes. Most developed nations have a mishmash of capitalism and communism, or individualism and socialism. We can see a progress, though not always improvement, in the development of socioeconomic systems of government, the system is quite deterministic, and perhaps at some point we will survive the problem of poverty. However, I think that is going to take a long long time. There is an underlying problem of society, a root cause for a lot of misfortune, it's an unyielding belief in supernaturalism and causal indeterminism that influences the perspectives of billions of minds. The belief that every individual is entirely independent of society and causality. It is an absolute matter of fact, that all human cognitive development is influenced enormously by the environment. This is plain for everyone to see in our modern world of global economics. Would you ever impale objects into your face in order to honor the Gods? If you were born there, you probably would. So, far, I can't find anything "free" in the human mind. Where am I going to find a solid theory that describes freedom from causality in the human mind? There aren't any good theories and, it seems much more likely that human minds aren't free from causality. If you want to pick up the torch and try to make a theory, good luck, it'll be hard to do. But you have at least 50,000 years of human evolution backing you up. That was before we figured out how to figure things out, the scientific method. Now we are nearing a full picture of human nature, with our history, and the way we work, becoming very clear and applicable. Determinism is so fundamental in all our understanding, even formulating a theory is a deterministic system.
Theory
God created man. Man fucked up. Man was punished by God.
Do you see? That's determinism. Man did something it wasn't supposed to, so it received a negative stimulus from it's creator. That would be like us creating a computer using neural network designs adapted from the human brain (BBD), setting it loose and providing positive and negative stimulus to train it. In this theory the determinism stops at things that are irrational, God is a self-sustaining, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent and omnibenevolent, alpha and omega, creator of all creators. Perhaps it's the only way people 2,000 years ago could have determined their own existence. The idea of humans being totally self-sufficient ("made in God's image") was perhaps the only way people 2,000 years ago explained human behavior. But now we have far superior methods of acquiring knowledge and far better tools for acquiring it. Tools which were crafted through our superior methods of knowledge acquisition. Another deterministic system, lo and behold.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Determinism is all around you Soulsinging. It's determinism through capitalism that has enabled poverty. Determinism is just like any theory that doesn't involve mysteria, skyhooks or miracles. Time will show that determinism as a philosophical position is not incompatible with quantum theory either. Many already know this, but the majority have a misconception of quantum theory and determinism. They are very elusive concepts.
Anyway, capitalism is a deterministic system, and so is communism. A great simile for capitalism is the survival-of-the-fittest paradigm in evolution theory. Whereas communism might be more closely related to reciprocal altruism, at least at base. This works at least to illustrate a key point. Capitalism encourages poverty because the strong ascend to greater social statuses, while the weak descend into poverty. Whereas in communism everyone shares in the feast. In some primate species the alpha male actually provides food to the rest and watches while they eat. This isn't really reciprocal altruism per se, since the alpha male delights in being the alpha male and there is no reciprocity other than respect. There are downsides to both socioeconomic systems, everyone knows what's wrong with communism, it puts an 'elite' or an alpha group in charge of the food distribution. Whereas in a capitalist species the weak would perish and the strong would replicate their genes. Most developed nations have a mishmash of capitalism and communism, or individualism and socialism.
what do you proporse as an alternative, since apparently capitalism, communism, and socialism don't work? what would a so-called "deterministic" political and governmental society look like?
We can see a progress, though not always improvement, in the development of socioeconomic systems of government, the system is quite deterministic, and perhaps at some point we will survive the problem of poverty.
we will survive the problem of poverty? how? magic? you offer no course of action. you don't think poverty has anything to do with too many humans competing for too few resources?
However, I think that is going to take a long long time. There is an underlying problem of society, a root cause for a lot of misfortune, it's an unyielding belief in supernaturalism and causal indeterminism that influences the perspectives of billions of minds. The belief that every individual is entirely independent of society and causality. It is an absolute matter of fact, that all human cognitive development is influenced enormously by the environment. This is plain for everyone to see in our modern world of global economics. Would you ever impale objects into your face in order to honor the Gods? If you were born there, you probably would. So, far, I can't find anything "free" in the human mind. Where am I going to find a solid theory that describes freedom from causality in the human mind? There aren't any good theories and, it seems much more likely that human minds aren't free from causality. If you want to pick up the torch and try to make a theory, good luck, it'll be hard to do. But you have at least 50,000 years of human evolution backing you up. That was before we figured out how to figure things out, the scientific method. Now we are nearing a full picture of human nature, with our history, and the way we work, becoming very clear and applicable. Determinism is so fundamental in all our understanding, even formulating a theory is a deterministic system.
Theory
God created man. Man fucked up. Man was punished by God.
Do you see? That's determinism. Man did something it wasn't supposed to, so it received a negative stimulus from it's creator. That would be like us creating a computer using neural network designs adapted from the human brain (BBD), setting it loose and providing positive and negative stimulus to train it. In this theory the determinism stops at things that are irrational, God is a self-sustaining, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent and omnibenevolent, alpha and omega, creator of all creators. Perhaps it's the only way people 2,000 years ago could have determined their own existence. The idea of humans being totally self-sufficient ("made in God's image") was perhaps the only way people 2,000 years ago explained human behavior. But now we have far superior methods of acquiring knowledge and far better tools for acquiring it. Tools which were crafted through our superior methods of knowledge acquisition. Another deterministic system, lo and behold.
how does this eradicate poverty? like a good christian, you ignore the problem and instead go into a sermon on the unimpeachable nature of your beliefs.
Determinism is all around you Soulsinging. It's determinism through capitalism that has enabled poverty.
Well first you have to quantify poverty. Canada's "poverty" rate is based on income distribution and is about what I have versus what others have. So if you've ever refered to a Canadian or European piece of research and they refer to poverty it has nothing to do with going without the essentials in life but is all about greed and keeping up with the Joneses.
The US uses an actual basket of goods definition for poverty. SO it is impossible to compare US and Canadian or European research or findings.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
definitely. One doesn't need to have a high IQ to read. Of course we all have different levels of ability, it doesn't mean that we cannot aquire basic knowledge.
Literacy isn't only reading and writing. It is also largely language comprehension in conversation...or job interviews, etc....
what do you proporse as an alternative, since apparently capitalism, communism, and socialism don't work? what would a so-called "deterministic" political and governmental society look like?
we will survive the problem of poverty? how? magic? you offer no course of action. you don't think poverty has anything to do with too many humans competing for too few resources?
how does this eradicate poverty? like a good christian, you ignore the problem and instead go into a sermon on the unimpeachable nature of your beliefs.
Dude, I'm not an economist. I know a little bit about this stuff. That wasn't the point, you took a jab at determinism like it's some kind of doctrine or system of faith. It's obvious you don't have the slightest idea what determinism is. After all this discussion about it, you continue to make totally ignorant comments.
Deterministic system (philosophy)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A deterministic system is a conceptual model of the philosophical doctrine of determinism applied to a system for understanding everything that has and will occur in the system, based on the physical outcomes of causality. In a deterministic system, every action, or cause, produces a reaction, or effect, and every reaction, in turn, becomes the cause of subsequent reactions. The totality of these cascading events can theoretically show exactly how the system will exist at any moment in time.
Contents
1 An example system
2 Some deterministic systems
3 Non-deterministic systems
4 Systems with controversial classification
5 The entire universe
6 See also
An example system
To understand this concept, start with a fairly small everyday system. Visualize a set of three dominoes lined up in a row with each domino less than a domino's length away from its neighbors, impervious to external environment influences. Once the first domino has toppled, the third domino will topple because the second will topple upon being contacted by the first domino. This could feasibly be shown by a scientist using a computer model front-loaded with the ability to correctly apply physics.
Small deterministic systems are easy to visualize, but are necessarily linked to the rest of reality by an initial cause and/or final effect. To go back to the dominoes, something outside the system has to cause the first domino to topple. The last domino falling might cause something else outside the system to happen. And the system itself must be considered in isolation--if external forces such as hurricanes, earthquakes or the hands of nearby people were taken into consideration, the final domino toppling might not be a predetermined outcome. Complete isolation of a system is unrealistic, but useful for understanding what would normally happen to a system when the possibility of external influences is negligible. Complex physical systems are necessarily built using simpler ones, and using isolated systems as a starting model can help bridge the gap and aid in understanding. The domino example is developed in the Petri net computational model.
This example assumes that dominoes toppling into each other behave deterministically. Even the above-mentioned external forces which might interrupt the system are causes which the system did not consider, but which could be explained by cause and effect in a larger deterministic system.
Or otherwise stated : A system in which the later states of the system follow from, or are determined by, the earlier ones. Such a system contrasts with a stochastic or random system in which future states are not determined from previous ones. An example of a stochastic system would be the sequence of heads or tails of an unbiased coin, or radioactive decay. If a system is deterministic, this doesn’t necessarily imply that later states of the system are predictable from a knowledge of the earlier ones. In this way, chaos is similar to a random system. For example, chaos has been termed "deterministic chaos" since, although it is determined by simple rules, its property of sensitive dependence on initial conditions makes a chaotic system, in practice, largely unpredictable.
Some deterministic systems
Classical physics is the deterministic system assumed in the domino example which scientists can use to describe all events which take place on a scale larger than individual atoms. Classical physics includes Newton's laws of motion, Classical electrodynamics, thermodynamics, the Special theory of relativity, the General theory of relativity, chaos theory and nonlinear dynamics. Some of these systems are complex, and events may be difficult to predict in practice, but if the starting conditions were known in enough detail, the outcomes of events in such systems could be predicted.
Nearly all electronic computers in use today are based on theoretical von Neumann computers or Turing machines, i.e.: they are devices that perform one small, deterministic step at a time. If all inputs are specified, the computer will always produce a particular output which is calculated deterministically. Computer scientists also study other models of computation including parallel computers (more than one deterministic step at a time), and quantum computers (which are based on non-deterministic quantum mechanical models).
Some schools of Islamic thought dictate that the world is predetermined in Hadith. "If the whole community gathered to help you, they could only help you with what God has already prescribed for you. If the whole community gathered to harm you, they could only harm you with what God has already prescribed for you. The pens have been lifted, the pages, dried." Other schools of Islamic thought describe a less restricted view, indeed the Quran itself describes the actions of people to undetermined and that actions proceed from volition conveyed through the agency of the soul.
Behaviorism, an approach to psychology based on the proposition that behavior can be researched scientifically without recourse to inner mental states, is usually considered to be deterministic and opposed to free will.
Non-deterministic systems
Events without natural causes cannot be part of a deterministic system. Whether such events actually occur is a matter of philosophical and scientific debate - however, possible uncaused events include:
Random Quantum events
Quantum physics holds that certain events such as radioactive decay and movement of particles are completely random when taken at the level of single atoms or smaller. Schrödinger's cat is a famous thought experiment in which a cat's survival cannot be determined theoretically before the experiment is done. For almost all everyday non-microscopic occurrences, however, the probability of such random events is extremely close to zero, and can be approximated to almost certainty with statistics using the correspondence principle. The philosophical consequences of quantum physics were once considered by many (including Albert Einstein) to be a major problem for the scientific method which traditionally used a strong version of scientific determinism (see Philosophy of science).
Systems with controversial classification
Some systems are particularly difficult to classify as deterministic or not, and have generated much philosophical debate. The major example would be human minds, and possibly animal minds too. Can people have free will if their minds are truly deterministic? Conversely, when deterministic computers are said to exhibit artificial intelligence, how are their minds similar to ours?
The entire universe
The larger the deterministic system, the longer the necessary chain of cause and effect. The entire universe may be considered as such a system, which creates its own philosophical questions (see Determinism).
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Income level has no bearing on the ability to read. Children who go to school, do homework and have involved parents learn how to read just fine. It has nothing to do with how much money their parents make.
Well, actually income level has some indirect impact on a child's ability to read. If a kid does not eat properly, by properly I mean the minimum amount of calories recquired by his/her age, size, etc, his/her ability to learn will be hindered.
Literacy isn't only reading and writing. It is also largely language comprehension in conversation...or job interviews, etc....
again, even the worst student in school can learn basic skills. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand propriety. It takes parents who help nudge their children in the right direction. Who teach them right from wrong. That set an example.
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
Well, actually income level has some indirect impact on a child's ability to read. If a kid does not eat properly, by properly I mean the minimum amount of calories recquired by his/her age, size, etc, his/her ability to learn will be hindered.
This is true, which is why lower income school districts give free government funded breakfast and lunch to every student.
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
again, even the worst student in school can learn basic skills. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand propriety. It takes parents who help nudge their children in the right direction. Who teach them right from wrong. That set an example.
You mean, to teach them that there is no right or wrong.
Dude, I'm not an economist. I know a little bit about this stuff. That wasn't the point, you took a jab at determinism like it's some kind of doctrine or system of faith. It's obvious you don't have the slightest idea what determinism is. After all this discussion about it, you continue to make totally ignorant comments.
my knowledge of it is only what i've heard from you. and you treat it like a doctrine or faith system. at least, that is how you preach about it here. you bring it into every thread, regardless of topic and start thumping it like an evangelical can turn everything into a biblical topic. it's annoying.
thus the point of my jab at determinism... sometimes, it's just not relevant. it's refreshing to see you admit for the first time that it does not really apply to the topic at hand.
my knowledge of it is only what i've heard from you. and you treat it like a doctrine or faith system. at least, that is how you preach about it here. you bring it into every thread, regardless of topic and start thumping it like an evangelical can turn everything into a biblical topic. it's annoying.
thus the point of my jab at determinism... sometimes, it's just not relevant. it's refreshing to see you admit for the first time that it does not really apply to the topic at hand.
He graduated from Determinism (Damned the Sacred Individual) University a couple of weeks ago. He now evangelicizes from the Neuro Transmitter Hemisphere University coming to you live from Hemoglobin Hill, Toronto. Careful, his message may cast you into the hellfire of the Obdulla Oblangata.
You mean, to teach them that there is no right or wrong.
no I mean exactly what I said. Why do you feel the need to bait? It seems to me someone has let you down in life. Your argumentative tone gives me the impression that you do not have a good relationship with your own parents.
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
Comments
Saying the govt. doesnt want kids to learn is absurd. The education system in our country is just fine. Kids who apply themselves have no problems learning and getting productive employment. The problems are with those who are not using the system to it's full.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Yea, it was a prerequisite to how low-socialeconimic strata affects the home environment. You know what though, it's difficult to have a complete understanding without having all the facts.
I recommend this book
http://www.amazon.com/Developmental-Psychology-Childhood-Adolescence-Advantage/dp/0534632521/ref=sr_1_11/002-6873279-5196009?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192066374&sr=1-11
Sounds like your suggesting that "ability" is an innate trait, something that is acquired at birth.
It certainly can't be true for reading comprehension and probably isn't true for anything else, especially of high-order cognition.
economic factors that determinism can't solve.
You really dislike determinism. Well, I think your stuck with it bud.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i have no particular dislike for it. i just find it amusing that you view it with the same all-encompassing reverence and worship that a christian gives to the bible... it holds all the answers and if everyone just believed as you believed the world would exist in perfect peace and harmony. it's never that simple. i'm dying to hear your objective theory on how determinism will cure poverty, complete with supporting evidence.
I doubt that. It is possible for people to have learning disabilities. It may take them longer to learn. However, so long as a person is conscious, it's difficult to see how they would be incapable of learning. Consciousness involves several high-order cognitive functions such as language. It's possible one could be conscious without language, however, other such things as sight are learned by our neural networks independent of our conscious efforts. It may be that some neurobiological deficit causes a phenomenological learning deficit. However, based on the neurobiological, it's difficult for me to accept that a person could see, hear and speak without a capacity to learn at all.
but not impossible, right?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Determinism is all around you Soulsinging. It's determinism through capitalism that has enabled poverty. Determinism is just like any theory that doesn't involve mysteria, skyhooks or miracles. Time will show that determinism as a philosophical position is not incompatible with quantum theory either. Many already know this, but the majority have a misconception of quantum theory and determinism. They are very elusive concepts.
Anyway, capitalism is a deterministic system, and so is communism. A great simile for capitalism is the survival-of-the-fittest paradigm in evolution theory. Whereas communism might be more closely related to reciprocal altruism, at least at base. This works at least to illustrate a key point. Capitalism encourages poverty because the strong ascend to greater social statuses, while the weak descend into poverty. Whereas in communism everyone shares in the feast. In some primate species the alpha male actually provides food to the rest and watches while they eat. This isn't really reciprocal altruism per se, since the alpha male delights in being the alpha male and there is no reciprocity other than respect. There are downsides to both socioeconomic systems, everyone knows what's wrong with communism, it puts an 'elite' or an alpha group in charge of the food distribution. Whereas in a capitalist species the weak would perish and the strong would replicate their genes. Most developed nations have a mishmash of capitalism and communism, or individualism and socialism. We can see a progress, though not always improvement, in the development of socioeconomic systems of government, the system is quite deterministic, and perhaps at some point we will survive the problem of poverty. However, I think that is going to take a long long time. There is an underlying problem of society, a root cause for a lot of misfortune, it's an unyielding belief in supernaturalism and causal indeterminism that influences the perspectives of billions of minds. The belief that every individual is entirely independent of society and causality. It is an absolute matter of fact, that all human cognitive development is influenced enormously by the environment. This is plain for everyone to see in our modern world of global economics. Would you ever impale objects into your face in order to honor the Gods? If you were born there, you probably would. So, far, I can't find anything "free" in the human mind. Where am I going to find a solid theory that describes freedom from causality in the human mind? There aren't any good theories and, it seems much more likely that human minds aren't free from causality. If you want to pick up the torch and try to make a theory, good luck, it'll be hard to do. But you have at least 50,000 years of human evolution backing you up. That was before we figured out how to figure things out, the scientific method. Now we are nearing a full picture of human nature, with our history, and the way we work, becoming very clear and applicable. Determinism is so fundamental in all our understanding, even formulating a theory is a deterministic system.
Theory
God created man. Man fucked up. Man was punished by God.
Do you see? That's determinism. Man did something it wasn't supposed to, so it received a negative stimulus from it's creator. That would be like us creating a computer using neural network designs adapted from the human brain (BBD), setting it loose and providing positive and negative stimulus to train it. In this theory the determinism stops at things that are irrational, God is a self-sustaining, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent and omnibenevolent, alpha and omega, creator of all creators. Perhaps it's the only way people 2,000 years ago could have determined their own existence. The idea of humans being totally self-sufficient ("made in God's image") was perhaps the only way people 2,000 years ago explained human behavior. But now we have far superior methods of acquiring knowledge and far better tools for acquiring it. Tools which were crafted through our superior methods of knowledge acquisition. Another deterministic system, lo and behold.
what do you proporse as an alternative, since apparently capitalism, communism, and socialism don't work? what would a so-called "deterministic" political and governmental society look like?
we will survive the problem of poverty? how? magic? you offer no course of action. you don't think poverty has anything to do with too many humans competing for too few resources?
how does this eradicate poverty? like a good christian, you ignore the problem and instead go into a sermon on the unimpeachable nature of your beliefs.
You lost me here. "Un" should never be before the word "YIELD."
and you lost me here because you make no sense.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
There's this band called Pearl Jam that put out this album called "YIELD" that I really, really like.
The US uses an actual basket of goods definition for poverty. SO it is impossible to compare US and Canadian or European research or findings.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Dude, I'm not an economist. I know a little bit about this stuff. That wasn't the point, you took a jab at determinism like it's some kind of doctrine or system of faith. It's obvious you don't have the slightest idea what determinism is. After all this discussion about it, you continue to make totally ignorant comments.
Well, actually income level has some indirect impact on a child's ability to read. If a kid does not eat properly, by properly I mean the minimum amount of calories recquired by his/her age, size, etc, his/her ability to learn will be hindered.
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my knowledge of it is only what i've heard from you. and you treat it like a doctrine or faith system. at least, that is how you preach about it here. you bring it into every thread, regardless of topic and start thumping it like an evangelical can turn everything into a biblical topic. it's annoying.
thus the point of my jab at determinism... sometimes, it's just not relevant. it's refreshing to see you admit for the first time that it does not really apply to the topic at hand.
He graduated from Determinism (Damned the Sacred Individual) University a couple of weeks ago. He now evangelicizes from the Neuro Transmitter Hemisphere University coming to you live from Hemoglobin Hill, Toronto. Careful, his message may cast you into the hellfire of the Obdulla Oblangata.
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Did you get free lunch when you were a kid?
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.