London gets oil aid from Venezuela

gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
edited February 2007 in A Moving Train
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=2223

Venezuela’s Foreign Minister Nicolas Maduro and London’s Mayor Ken Livingstone signed an agreement yesterday according to which Venezuela would provide discounted diesel fuel in exchange for advice on public transportation, environmental protection, tourism, and city planning.

According to the deal, which Chavez had promised in mid 2006 while he was visiting London, Venezuela’s state-owned oil company will provide 50 million liters of diesel at a 20% discount for its fleet of 8,000 buses. The deal will allow the city of London to provide 250,000 Londoners half-price bus tickets.

Livingstone said of the agreement, “This agreement will benefit up to a quarter of a million of the lowest income Londoners. Those on income support will be eligible to receive half price bus and tram travel – a benefit worth at least the equivalent of £280 a year.”


It remains to be seen, but I think Londoners got by far the better end of this deal.
It's probably unrelated, but interesting timing, too, with the Brits pulling the troops out of Iraq.

all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Post edited by Unknown User on
«134

Comments

  • Smart man...Divide and conquer...
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Smart man...Divide and conquer...

    I'm not seeing what you're seeing. It seems like a very sorry trade for Venezuela.

    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • ken livingstone is a cunt! of the highest order.
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Smart man...Divide and conquer...

    Only if people like the British are dumb enough to let him get away with it.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Only if people like the British are dumb enough to let him get away with it.

    Are dumd enough to let who get away with what? What's anyone getting away with that upsets you so much?
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Arctangent wrote:
    ken livingstone is a cunt! of the highest order.

    Please elaborate. Do you live in England?
  • Hehe....go Hugo. Burn that oil! He's my favorite international trust-fund baby.
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Are dumd enough to let who get away with what? What's anyone getting away with that upsets you so much?

    Where did I say I was that upset? I just don't think that Britain needs to make special deals with Chavez. Everyone slams the U.S. for cozying up to dictators in central/South America, and Britain shouldn't do it either.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Where did I say I was that upset? I just don't think that Britain needs to make special deals with Chavez. Everyone slams the U.S. for cozying up to dictators in central/South America, and Britain shouldn't do it either.

    Dictator? He won a democratic election.
    Oh! But he's a Democratically elected leader that seeks independence from U.S hegemony, so he's therefore a 'dictator'! I see!
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Dictator? He won a democratic election.
    Oh! But he's a Democratically elected leader that seeks independence from U.S hegemony, so he's therefore a 'dictator'! I see!

    How many other dictators have supposedly won democratic elections as well? And no, you don't see, because you basically pay no attention to Chavez's human rights record, which completely sucks. All you see is the fight against "hegemony" or whatever buzzword you want to use.
  • Byrnzie wrote:
    Dictator? He won a democratic election.
    Oh! But he's a Democratically elected leader that seeks independence from U.S hegemony, so he's therefore a 'dictator'! I see!

    The line between a dictator and a leader is not defined by an election. It is defined by whether or not that person commands with guns or commands with respect. Chavez is quickly abandoning the latter for the former.
  • We need the one young lady, who posts on this board, to explain to us the situation in Ven. as she is from that reigon....she does not paint a pretty picture. She sent me some links in the past showing conditions and that such......
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    And no, you don't see, because you basically pay no attention to Chavez's human rights record, which completely sucks.

    Please provide some evidence.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    We need the one young lady, who posts on this board, to explain to us the situation in Ven. as she is from that reigon....she does not paint a pretty picture. She sent me some links in the past showing conditions and that such......

    And in response to her post i supplied links to statistics which showed how the standard of living for the poor in that country had risen dramatically under Chavez.
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Please provide some evidence.


    http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/venezuela/index.do

    And its even from a source that shares your views on Israel!
  • Byrnzie wrote:
    And in response to her post i supplied links to statistics which showed how the standard of living for the poor in that country had risen dramatically under Chavez.

    The standard of living for any thief will rise until he or she runs out of things to steal or until those around them adopt their tactics.
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Byrnzie wrote:
    And in response to her post i supplied links to statistics which showed how the standard of living for the poor in that country had risen dramatically under Chavez.

    So a police state is worth the price of restricted freedom and constant human rights violations? Maybe that's where you and I differ.
  • Byrnzie wrote:
    And in response to her post i supplied links to statistics which showed how the standard of living for the poor in that country had risen dramatically under Chavez.

    Yes. However I still found the state of the country to be delporable...someone help me here....was Hugo spouting off about trying to become the President for life or am I just hearing voices in my head again...postive I read it in multiple sources of differing politcal agenda....
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Yes. However I still found the state of the country to be delporable...someone help me here....was Hugo spouting off about trying to become the President for life or am I just hearing voices in my head again...postive I read it in multiple sources of differing politcal agenda....

    No, that's pretty much common knowledge in Venezuela. He has himself cast as some Socialist folk hero who deserves to be in charge by dint of having the peoples' best interests in mind. Hmmm, where have we seen that sort of approach before? You complain, and you can expect imprisonment and torture. You tow the line, and then apparently you can sit back and enjoy the utopia.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Byrnzie wrote:
    And in response to her post i supplied links to statistics which showed how the standard of living for the poor in that country had risen dramatically under Chavez.

    amazing how you continually bash the US but sing the praises of some asshole like chavez ...


    and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

    and Osama bin laden

    and hamas


    well you get the point
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jlew24asu wrote:
    amazing how you continually bash the US but sing the praises of some asshole like chavez ...


    and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

    and Osama bin laden

    and hamas


    well you get the point

    You're full of shit.
    Provide just one example of where i've sung the praises of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad ,Osama bin laden, or hamas.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/venezuela/index.do

    And its even from a source that shares your views on Israel!

    Hugo Chavez - showing the US who's master
    Hugh O'Shaughnessy
    Published 10 October 2005
    http://www.newstatesman.com/200510100012

    Venezuela, Hugo Chavez and permanent revolution
    27 January 2007
    http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/article.php?article_id=10538

    Interview with Father Roy Bourgeois
    "Hugo Chavez is giving the poor some hope, and it is contagious"
    Wednesday, Jan 21, 2004
    http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=1090
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Anyway, i'm off down the pub. I'll respond to the rest of your points tomorrow.
  • Byrnzie wrote:
    Hugo Chavez - showing the US who's master
    Hugh O'Shaughnessy
    Published 10 October 2005
    http://www.newstatesman.com/200510100012

    Venezuela, Hugo Chavez and permanent revolution
    27 January 2007
    http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/article.php?article_id=10538

    Interview with Father Roy Bourgeois
    "Hugo Chavez is giving the poor some hope, and it is contagious"
    Wednesday, Jan 21, 2004
    http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=1090

    Hehe.....

    http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-fg-inflate11feb11,1,4720056.story?coll=la-news-a_section&ctrack=1&cset=true

    Reprinted for not registered: http://www.topix.net/content/trb/0429124115278161490529644273753734312808
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    "showing the US who's master?"

    WTF??? Dare I click?
    :)
  • Byrnzie wrote:
    You're full of shit.
    Provide just one example of where i've sung the praises of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad ,Osama bin laden, or hamas.

    He doesnt need to provide proof -- he is using the Fox news method of false accusations and then never owning up to them. Just make up some lies about him and you'll be even.
    War is Peace
    Freedom is Slavery
    Ignorance is Strength
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Rushlimbo wrote:
    He doesnt need to provide proof -- he is using the Fox news method of false accusations and then never owning up to them. Just make up some lies about him and you'll be even.

    byzine is a big boy. he can stick up for himself.
  • RainDogRainDog Posts: 1,824
    So this Chavez guy is good at some things and questionable (at best) at others? As world leaders go, that's so very, um.... unusual? Somehow?

    He could have been Venezuela's FDR, but he's not - at least not yet. Ah, well. I wouldn't want him as my president, but apparently most of Venezuela does. He was re-elected by a larger margin than Bush - shit, he was re-elected by a larger margin than Reagan. So let's isolate him. Then, in a few years we could "liberate" his country.

    Dumb idea? Yeah, I thought so too.

    Now, considering what Chavez is getting from this deal with the British, it looks as though he's trying to expand beyond "oil is all" and wants to actually work on his country's physical infrastructure. Yeah, fuck Britian, dude. We should have let them secede way back when. Is it too late to kick them out of the Union?
  • Yes. However I still found the state of the country to be delporable...someone help me here....was Hugo spouting off about trying to become the President for life or am I just hearing voices in my head again...postive I read it in multiple sources of differing politcal agenda....


    I'm curious, were referring to me as the "young lady"? Well, having just turned 34 that greaf if that's the case, just kidding ;)

    You are 100% right about the fact that Chavez said he would reform the Constitution to seek permanent reelection. And his latest move was to ask the Congress -constituted only by members of his political party- to hand him all Congressional powers so he can issue laws, decrees and whatever floats his boat for 18 months. Is really necessary considering he's constantly cheered every time he shows his face in the Congress building? To me this shows nothing but disdain towards democracy. Furthermore he issued a decree to declare Febreruary 4th a National Holiday. In February 4th, 1992 he made his first attempt at a Coup D' Etat. A true democrat!!!!

    About the alledged improvement of Venezuelan's living conditions. Yes, there are improvements in child mortality rates and malnourishing rates (however, the only countries with a deficit in these areas are African countries severely affected by AIDS). Poverty has decreased maybe 2 percentile points. On the contrary, extreme poverty, inequality and unemployment have increased. Infrastructure is falling apart all over the country; the amount of corruption is the same -or bigger- just switched sides (before it was in AD and COPEI hands). Human rights record is shameful. But I guess that developing countries can settle for less, at least that's what I get from reading this forum. We have to choose: either a democracy or poverty reduction. Guess what? Chile, has proven both can be achieved. Since the return of democracy reduced its povery rate by more than 20 percentile points, while respecting human rights, personal freedoms and having honest and accountable institutions...data available at: http://www.eclac.org

    Venezuela's dependency on oil exports is on the rise; agriculture, small and middle enterprise are disappearing, young professionals are fleeing the country. EU and the US Embassies are being flooded by people who wants to leave; and no, not all of these are "rich getting what they deserve", most of them are hard working people dissenting. I won't bother going into detail about his effect on South America's integration process; one word: disaster

    Is Chavez really that independent from USA? How much of Venezuela's revenue from oil stems directly from the US? Such percentage is unavailable (Venezuela's bureau of statistics is a beacon of transparency), but I'll say at least 30%.

    Ohh about giving cheap oil to London, I guess it is great for the city. But I'm guessing Venezuelans will be angry once again about the fact that their President keeps giving away their resources instead of solving their problems. Just like he did when he tried to buy himself a chair in the UN's Security Council or when he gave Evo Morales a plane to make a tour through the EU to get his support at MERCOSUR.

    Peace to all
    Caterina

    EDIT: just to improve the redaction. English (obviously) is not my native language
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    RainDog wrote:
    So this Chavez guy is good at some things and questionable (at best) at others? As world leaders go, that's so very, um.... unusual? Somehow?

    He could have been Venezuela's FDR, but he's not - at least not yet. Ah, well. I wouldn't want him as my president, but apparently most of Venezuela does. He was re-elected by a larger margin than Bush - shit, he was re-elected by a larger margin than Reagan. So let's isolate him. Then, in a few years we could "liberate" his country.

    Dumb idea? Yeah, I thought so too.

    Now, considering what Chavez is getting from this deal with the British, it looks as though he's trying to expand beyond "oil is all" and wants to actually work on his country's physical infrastructure. Yeah, fuck Britian, dude. We should have let them secede way back when. Is it too late to kick them out of the Union?

    Like farfromglorified suggested, you can play the "yeah, but he was elected!" card all you want ... It doesn't invalidate any of the concerns with Chavez that people brought up in this thread. I find it a bit concerning that you seem to brush off politically-motivated detention and torture as just another problem of the sort that all world leaders promulgate. Socialist dictators always get a free pass on the Train, for some reason. But if the person is more like the former leader in Chile, then bashing him and his U.S. allies is par for the course.
Sign In or Register to comment.