Let's have a look at Iraq
Kann
Posts: 1,146
I was speaking about Iraq with a friend yesterday, and it got me thinking really hard! You see, now we know US military will be there for at least another 6 months let's take a (biaised) look at who is taking profit from this :
* Iran : well for them it's clearly obvious, while the US is using up the majority of their ressources (human, funds and in population support) trying to keep the country tied up together they won't take threats seriously, with reason.
* Syria : The surrounding chaos is a blessing for them, they have crimes to respond to in Lebanon, crimes to respond to in Iraq and globally profit from the fact that neither Sunnites, nor Chiites manage to take the lead in the country.
* Saudia Arabia and other arab emirates : I don't believe any bs coming out of them, I find the leaders of these countries to be corrupt hypocrites and don't believe that they indeed are against this war. Mainly because they don't want to see Chiites taking the control of an Iraqi government.
* Pro american governments in the region : Such as Egypt of Jordan. It's fairly obvious they have a lot of profit of the presence of the US here. They basically support the US policy (much against popular opinion), if the US were to leave and admit the defeat they would loose even more credibility towards their popular opinion. And would see a higher rise of more radical parties in the country. And they don't want that.
*Israel : It took me a while to realise it, but it's in their best interest to have the US stay in Iraq. They (arguably) lost the war in Lebanon to Jihadists, and if the US were to loose a war in Iraq to other Jihadists well what would that send like message? The strongest militaries in the world can be defeated with the power of allah and guerilla tactics. It would create a whole lot more of insecurity for them.
*Al qaeda : what can I say? they lost a leader. They won an unlimited pool of potential members. The more deaths in Iraq the more they win.
Meanwhile, what are the US winning by staying? The loss of human lives, a huge debt, a loss of credibility in their institutions etc. The US knows they can't really leave because the repercussions would be disastrous :
probably the transformation of the state of Iraq in a country split in 3 parts
the complete loss of credibility in the region along with the loss of support from old friends (pro american countries)
the advent of Iran as a powerful state and influence in the region
a big "woohoo" from Syria who could basically keep on manipulating Lebanon to wage war against Israel.
And so the US wants to establish peace and order in Iraq to finally leave that big big thorn in their side, and all the surrounding countries have more to profit from chaos. The US is being manipulated, and can't do a thing about it. I thought it would be a good thing to ask help to some old friends (NATO and EU in particular) but that war is so impopular worldwide that it would basically be america humiliating itself by asking for help without hope of any country saying yes.
It really is a sad sad situation, and I can't see a positive outcome in all of this.
* Iran : well for them it's clearly obvious, while the US is using up the majority of their ressources (human, funds and in population support) trying to keep the country tied up together they won't take threats seriously, with reason.
* Syria : The surrounding chaos is a blessing for them, they have crimes to respond to in Lebanon, crimes to respond to in Iraq and globally profit from the fact that neither Sunnites, nor Chiites manage to take the lead in the country.
* Saudia Arabia and other arab emirates : I don't believe any bs coming out of them, I find the leaders of these countries to be corrupt hypocrites and don't believe that they indeed are against this war. Mainly because they don't want to see Chiites taking the control of an Iraqi government.
* Pro american governments in the region : Such as Egypt of Jordan. It's fairly obvious they have a lot of profit of the presence of the US here. They basically support the US policy (much against popular opinion), if the US were to leave and admit the defeat they would loose even more credibility towards their popular opinion. And would see a higher rise of more radical parties in the country. And they don't want that.
*Israel : It took me a while to realise it, but it's in their best interest to have the US stay in Iraq. They (arguably) lost the war in Lebanon to Jihadists, and if the US were to loose a war in Iraq to other Jihadists well what would that send like message? The strongest militaries in the world can be defeated with the power of allah and guerilla tactics. It would create a whole lot more of insecurity for them.
*Al qaeda : what can I say? they lost a leader. They won an unlimited pool of potential members. The more deaths in Iraq the more they win.
Meanwhile, what are the US winning by staying? The loss of human lives, a huge debt, a loss of credibility in their institutions etc. The US knows they can't really leave because the repercussions would be disastrous :
probably the transformation of the state of Iraq in a country split in 3 parts
the complete loss of credibility in the region along with the loss of support from old friends (pro american countries)
the advent of Iran as a powerful state and influence in the region
a big "woohoo" from Syria who could basically keep on manipulating Lebanon to wage war against Israel.
And so the US wants to establish peace and order in Iraq to finally leave that big big thorn in their side, and all the surrounding countries have more to profit from chaos. The US is being manipulated, and can't do a thing about it. I thought it would be a good thing to ask help to some old friends (NATO and EU in particular) but that war is so impopular worldwide that it would basically be america humiliating itself by asking for help without hope of any country saying yes.
It really is a sad sad situation, and I can't see a positive outcome in all of this.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
Agreed.
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It's nonsense to people who have no sense of reality, who's world encompasses a 30 mile diameter, and those that vote against abortion but are ok with bombing women and children.
It must have taken an entire two brain cells to come up with that brilliant summary. Well done. Any other cliches or "hypocrite" statments for us?
Let me try...
War is always wrong because innocent people die...okay...sucking the brains out of an infant in the mother's womb is my CHOICE!!! Woohoo!!!
That was easy.
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You could start with the part about Israel (arguably) losing the war in Lebanon. There's no (arguably) about it...they won that war. Just like the U.S. won the...yes...WON...the war in Iraq. There's a difference between winning a war and dealing with an insurgency after the occupation...which we're NOT losing either.
If we leave, it will be because we CHOSE to leave...not because we lost anything.
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Winning has nothing to do with blowing the other side to pieces...it has everything to do with actually accomplishing something.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
fuck it, hail, I agree 100% with your post.
Your post speaks for itself.
And what did that accomplish? What have we won?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Well, I dont know 'bout that, I got a pretty nifty yellow ribbon magnet.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
My friend and I were talking the other day. He said, "Man, I twisted my ankle the other day playing basketball. Hurts like a bitch." I decided I'd help my friend by cutting off his foot at the ankle. He wasn't sure, but I took the initiative and went ahead. I just felt like God was on my side, y'know?
The procedure was bloody, but I managed to git 'r' done. Of course, it turns out I wasn't really prepared for all the messy stuff that happened after the operation. There was lots of blood loss, I forgot to bring bandages and pain medication, but whatever. Hey, freedom isn't free, is it? MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
Anyway, I thought he'd be grateful and thank me for helping him out, but he wasn't. He was pretty pissed, and he got downright apopleptic when the severed stump developed gangrene. That untgrateful bastard.
Hmmph. Let's send a division of marines to your house to get rid of termites. And then bill you for it.
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Well naturaly, it is after all just an opinion. It won't make sense to everybody (maybe even not to anybody).
It's just that thinking about it, I just realised that the US government is being manipulated into fighting a war they don't want, and I feel sorry for that. But it is just an opinion, no facts. So it may suck, but you gotta be prepared for that on a message board (but thank you for your first response).
lebanon war objectives :
rescue the captured soldiers => result : fail
weaken or get rid of hezbollah in south lebanon => result : fail
reduce or stop weapons from coming from Syria/Iran => result : fail
the only thing that worked is to get the entire international community to disaprove and to have the hezbollah leader gain even more charism in the region.
As for Iraq, the war was won that is true (for a long time already), but the military is loosing the battle against extremism. It is more that idea that I had in mind.
"An urgent investigation has been launched in Washington into whether Iran played a role in manipulating the US into the Iraq war"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1224075,00.html
That wouldn't upset him, he might finally get to touch a soldiers dick..