Question for Americans on here

Tombourine

It seems to me that a lot of politics in the US is very much "us" v. "them". That is, that everyone is either liberal or conservative (or, Democrat or Republican) and there's little movement from those views.
In Ireland, even if someone supports a particular political party, there's a lot of divergent views on specific issues (within parties) and they can be a lot of cross-party consensus, meaning elections are mostly based around valence issues.
From what I've seen and heard of Americans involved in politics, it's mostly done in polemics - there's very little cross-party agreement - and people are more rigidly at opposite ends.

What I'm asking is whether I'm correct in this. If someone on here is a Democrat (or 'liberal'), will there be certain things they'll agree on with a friend who is Republican (or 'conservative')? It just appears to me to be completely divided.

Skitch Patterson

Tombourine wrote:

It seems to me that a lot of politics in the US is very much "us" v. "them". That is, that everyone is either liberal or conservative (or, Democrat or Republican) and there's little movement from those views.
In Ireland, even if someone supports a particular political party, there's a lot of divergent views on specific issues (within parties) and they can be a lot of cross-party consensus, meaning elections are mostly based around valence issues.
From what I've seen and heard of Americans involved in politics, it's mostly done in polemics - there's very little cross-party agreement - and people are more rigidly at opposite ends.

What I'm asking is whether I'm correct in this. If someone on here is a Democrat (or 'liberal'), will there be certain things they'll agree on with a friend who is Republican (or 'conservative')? It just appears to me to be completely divided.

Why discuss things we already agree on?

Tombourine

Sorry, I probably phrased that poorly. What I mean is, how much agreement is there between individuals in different parties, or deviation from party views, or is it as divided as it seems?

MLC2006

yes, there are plenty of people who have views that are both liberal and conservative, like "middle of the road" views. in fact, I would say these people far outnumber the 'in your face' far left or far right. but it's the 'in your face' crowd that are well, always 'in your face'. I can assure you that some of the extreme left views you see on this web forum are not indicative of the majority of people who vote Democrat in the US.

beachdweller

Tombourine wrote:

It seems to me that a lot of politics in the US is very much "us" v. "them". That is, that everyone is either liberal or conservative (or, Democrat or Republican) and there's little movement from those views.
In Ireland, even if someone supports a particular political party, there's a lot of divergent views on specific issues (within parties) and they can be a lot of cross-party consensus, meaning elections are mostly based around valence issues.
From what I've seen and heard of Americans involved in politics, it's mostly done in polemics - there's very little cross-party agreement - and people are more rigidly at opposite ends.

What I'm asking is whether I'm correct in this. If someone on here is a Democrat (or 'liberal'), will there be certain things they'll agree on with a friend who is Republican (or 'conservative')? It just appears to me to be completely divided.

this got started during the 1994 elections by newt gingrich, it's used to force the hand of moderate republicans and independents, and it's used as a marketing tool.

As for me, I'm a registered Dem at the moment, but vote on issues, issue by issue, not on the lib or conserv line, and have voted for a mixture of green, dem, and republicans for local and state offices, and dem's for federal offices. Republicans at the federal level voted against their own best judgement because of the strong arming of the Bush administration on some issues, and that just made the situation of the last 6 years that much worse.

We need public servants, and not career politicians in Congress, people that can debate issues honorably, intellegently, and support each other, even in our differences.

If you watch some of the ignorant crap that comes out of senator and congressional representatives mouths on the floor, most of which american citizens never hear, you'd be amazed.

Bu2

beachdweller wrote:

this got started during the 1994 elections by newt gingrich, it's used to force the hand of moderate republicans and independents, and it's used as a marketing tool.

As for me, I'm a registered Dem at the moment, but vote on issues, issue by issue, not on the lib or conserv line, and have voted for a mixture of green, dem, and republicans for local and state offices, and dem's for federal offices. Republicans at the federal level voted against their own best judgement because of the strong arming of the Bush administration on some issues, and that just made the situation of the last 6 years that much worse.

We need public servants, and not career politicians in Congress, people that can debate issues honorably, intellegently, and support each other, even in our differences.

If you watch some of the ignorant crap that comes out of senator and congressional representatives mouths on the floor, most of which american citizens never hear, you'd be amazed.

I watch CSPAN a lot, a channel that covers the Senate Floor and House of Representatives, and I watch the voting and the speeches. I grew up a Replublican but over the years started leaning more Democrat/Liberal. That does not mean that I have given up some of my conservative stances on issues, though. I would say that I'm conservative on government spending but in most other cases I agree with the more liberal side of things. In some ways I also lean Libertarian.

The US government today, through the US media, has made it more a black/white issue than it ever was before, and I think that is where the trouble lies. Republicans stand by Republicans, and Democrats stand by Democrats, and it really shouldn't be this way. Finding common ground is the ideal, but no politician today, nor the media, is willing to do that anymore.

My hope is that our Independents, Libertarians, Green Party members, etc. will get fed up with choosing one or the other side of every argument, and start trying to find something in the middle.

Until that happens (and it won't happen before our next general election), I'm voting for Obama. He seems, in my eyes, to be the only politician out there who's willing to work with both parties for the common good. A rarity, these days.

wolfbear

I would say that most American's are in the middle. But, who you end up getting a chance to vote for ends up usually being the extreme right or left. I have been voting since the early 70's and I think only one vote was for someone, all the others were anti votes. A very sad situation that I keep hoping will be rectified by a viable third party, but as close as it came was with Perot - and that ended up pretty scary in itself.

Bu2

wolfbear wrote:

I would say that most American's are in the middle. But, who you end up getting a chance to vote for ends up usually being the extreme right or left. I have been voting since the early 70's and I think only one vote was for someone, all the others were anti votes. A very sad situation that I keep hoping will be rectified by a viable third party, but as close as it came was with Perot - and that ended up pretty scary in itself.

I thought Perot was awesome. He came right out and said: Hey, folks! This crap ain't working anymore! Here's the real deal, and I'll spell it out in a chart to help you all understand it!

And his charts and his statements were dead on. But the Republicans and Democrats tore him to pieces (all the while ignoring everything he said) and we ended up with Clinton ousting Bush.

*pause, while that last sentence sinks in*

With the exception of Nader, no outsider has ever really sunk in. Bloomberg has supposedly been toying with the idea of running as an Independent (although he denies it) and the only other Independent who is known is Lieberman (yikes), and so we have the lousy choices of Rudy/Mitt/McCain maybe Fred on the Republican side, and the odd choices of Hillary/Obama/Edwards maybe Richardson or Biden or Kucinich on the Democratic. With these choices, most people are going to end up voting AGAINST AGAIN.

It's very sad. It makes me want to start a whole new choice of a party.

*EDIT* Mea culpa, I forgot to mention Ron Paul.

jamtemplechains

it's sad, this country really has trapped itself. the idea behind two major parties to choose from just came to seem so neat and tidy and easy, that more and more over the years, people bit down harder and harder on the worm and not all of them are realizing the massive hook they're snagged on. whether or not everyone in the u.s subscribes to the polarized views of democrates or republicans, the fact of the matter is that the majority of us here exert very little effort to find people worth voting for outside of either of those. how long will it take before we all realize that with these two parties being THE two parties, no matter who makes it there, democrat or republican, "liberal" or "conservative", they're both going to be really, really, really, REALLY huge assholes who have very little interest in anyone's wellbeing but theirs and their own.

gue_barium

jamtemplechains wrote:

it's sad, this country really has trapped itself. the idea behind two major parties to choose from just came to seem so neat and tidy and easy, that more and more over the years, people bit down harder and harder on the worm and not all of them are realizing the massive hook they're snagged on. whether or not everyone in the u.s subscribes to the polarized views of democrates or republicans, the fact of the matter is that the majority of us here exert very little effort to find people worth voting for outside of either of those. how long will it take before we all realize that with these two parties being THE two parties, no matter who makes it there, democrat or republican, "liberal" or "conservative", they're both going to be really, really, really, REALLY huge assholes who have very little interest in anyone's wellbeing but theirs and their own.

This is a good post.

I'd like to elaborate on it and break it down in the future.

Derrick

It's nice when you have 3+ major parties because then no matter who wins you get political backscratching to pass bills. As a result, a large percentage of the nation's concerns are addressed at the federal/state/provincial level.

callen

MLC2006 wrote:

yes, there are plenty of people who have views that are both liberal and conservative, like "middle of the road" views. in fact, I would say these people far outnumber the 'in your face' far left or far right. but it's the 'in your face' crowd that are well, always 'in your face'. I can assure you that some of the extreme left views you see on this web forum are not indicative of the majority of people who vote Democrat in the US.

Extreme left views? I see most of the left on this board as middle of the road.

deadnothingbetter

Tombourine wrote:

It seems to me that a lot of politics in the US is very much "us" v. "them". That is, that everyone is either liberal or conservative (or, Democrat or Republican) and there's little movement from those views.
In Ireland, even if someone supports a particular political party, there's a lot of divergent views on specific issues (within parties) and they can be a lot of cross-party consensus, meaning elections are mostly based around valence issues.
From what I've seen and heard of Americans involved in politics, it's mostly done in polemics - there's very little cross-party agreement - and people are more rigidly at opposite ends.

What I'm asking is whether I'm correct in this. If someone on here is a Democrat (or 'liberal'), will there be certain things they'll agree on with a friend who is Republican (or 'conservative')? It just appears to me to be completely divided.

i totally know what you mean.... i think about this everyday.

i consider myself a conservatist... but you'd probably see me agreeing more with liberals on a day to day basis. mainly cos for the present moment the liberals are the one's making more sense. like for instance, the war in iraq. i agree with liberals.... we shouldn't be at war. and i have no reason to doubt that maybe bush might've had something to do with the 9/11. (yes, i'm also a bush hater) i also believe that as individuals we shouldn't interfere in other people's rights. like gay marriages, abortions and such. yeah, i'm still conservatist... because most of the values held by conservatists are also my values.... i don't know if i'm making sense though.

i just simply believe that just because you lean more towards one political party it doesn't mean that the party you're with will always be right. it goes for both sides too.

onelongsong

Tombourine wrote:

It seems to me that a lot of politics in the US is very much "us" v. "them". That is, that everyone is either liberal or conservative (or, Democrat or Republican) and there's little movement from those views.
In Ireland, even if someone supports a particular political party, there's a lot of divergent views on specific issues (within parties) and they can be a lot of cross-party consensus, meaning elections are mostly based around valence issues.
From what I've seen and heard of Americans involved in politics, it's mostly done in polemics - there's very little cross-party agreement - and people are more rigidly at opposite ends.

What I'm asking is whether I'm correct in this. If someone on here is a Democrat (or 'liberal'), will there be certain things they'll agree on with a friend who is Republican (or 'conservative')? It just appears to me to be completely divided.

from my experiences; you're wrong. i'm republican and held elected office and my best friend is an elected democrat. we often exchange(d) views and discussed things rationally. in public however; we'd lock horns over the things we didn't agree on.
look at it this way: if you want publicity; would two blokes agreeing on something; or; would two blokes almost to the point of name calling be most news worthy?
you're right about the general public though. there's no middle ground in the public forum.

Milestone

It seems that our system is "us" and "them". It's a shame, because the "middle of the road" people (like me) are not represented.

I am liberal on most issues.....but, for example, I am in favor of stronger immigration laws and enforcement.

Commy

Personally, I am very conservative when it comes to politics, but I vote democrat. At least they pretend to care about important issues.

But I think the establishment has an idea for the public...we are to choose between 2 parties that basically support the same ideas.

If anyone were to take a serious look at US politics I think they would realize policy hasn't changed in over 50 years...doves or hawks, dems or republicans, the general role for gov't is to serve its corporate sponsors at home and to increase its hegemeny abroad.

As far as partisanship goes its really just a side game that people play so they can feel like they have participated in some meaningful way...their token check mark every 4 years. A joke.

tybird

The folks in the middle....the ones not polarized by either party.........don't give good quotes, flashy soundbites or don't come across as combative enough to sell newspapers or ad time. :rolleyes:

Abuskedti

Tombourine wrote:

It seems to me that a lot of politics in the US is very much "us" v. "them". That is, that everyone is either liberal or conservative (or, Democrat or Republican) and there's little movement from those views.
In Ireland, even if someone supports a particular political party, there's a lot of divergent views on specific issues (within parties) and they can be a lot of cross-party consensus, meaning elections are mostly based around valence issues.
From what I've seen and heard of Americans involved in politics, it's mostly done in polemics - there's very little cross-party agreement - and people are more rigidly at opposite ends.

What I'm asking is whether I'm correct in this. If someone on here is a Democrat (or 'liberal'), will there be certain things they'll agree on with a friend who is Republican (or 'conservative')? It just appears to me to be completely divided.

real friends don't have a proplem. but you can sure make an enemy with the hate that has been feed in this country