A Canadian in the United States

angelica

oh, and when we put blinders on our fears an interesting things happens: We are oblivious to our own fear and to the fears around us--we've blocked it....but those who are aware of or conscious of their own fears, they don't have the fear-block. So they can see the fear in others quite clearly. When we block fear, it does not go away. We hide our own awareness of it. And we continue to act out our fears to our own obliviousness, while others see what we are doing.

jeffbr

angelica wrote:

Those "in the know" are few and far between. Those who are denying their emotions are open game for such ploys.

Pop-psych babble.

So those of us who said we aren't afraid are actually in denial and are the ones most open to the fear mongering. Those who admit they're afraid are the ones who will least be swayed by their emotions of fear?? WTF?

So we basically can't win. We're either all afraid, or we're not afraid, but really quite afraid and vulnerable.

angelica

jeffbr wrote:

Pop-psych babble.

So those of us who said we aren't afraid are actually in denial and are the ones most open to the fear mongering. Those who admit they're afraid are the ones who will least be swayed by their emotions of fear?? WTF?

So we basically can't win. We're either all afraid, or we're not afraid, but really quite afraid and vulnerable.

Lying to one's self is lying to one's self. Denial. Like I said, to say one or ones friends, neighbours etc. do not feel fear is ludicrous and unrealistic. It's like saying you don't see the colour green. Either you acknowledge green when you see it, or you don't. To say you never see green indicates some form of denial.

People who face their fears learn to deal with them. People who deny them stay trapped because by not facing them, they do not learn healthy ways to cope with them, and therefore they will continue to go unconscious where they exist beyond one's control. It is integration of one's experiences that leads to realism, not denial. Your all or nothing view of the subject shows a lack of understanding of integration.

Like I say, the majority remains unconscious of their emotions. It's where we are evolutionarily at this time.

Commy

jlew24asu wrote:

why does awareness have to be mistaken for fear? 9/11 was an unprovoked attack

if you have a very short memory-say a week or so-then yeah i suppose you could say it was unprovoked.

angelica

jlew24asu wrote:

why does awareness have to be mistaken for fear? 9/11 was an unprovoked attack

When there is a chance one might be attacked, and one feels fear, that is 100% normal and 100% healthy. Such awareness and acknowledgement of fear serves the purpose of alerting us to potential danger. It's an evolutionarily sound response (which is why we evolved the emotional response of fear) which first alarms us, and then pushes us to resolve the problem because we are rightfully alarmed.

Where we are stunted in our evolution right now is that we feel the fear, deny it and start railing on the other guy because we feel more strong when we're being agressive, than when we are vulnerable and facing our fears. The other guy is bad, he's doing this and that, blah, blah. We've got to get him back! All the while we actually INCREASE the chances of future problems. This is the OPPOSITE of resolving problems. We deny our natural evolutionary tools including our emotional intelligence, we get the consequences, being a lack of problem solving ability. And then we feel we must justify our own lack (that we are unaware of) by blaming someone else for our problems. In the meantime things will escalate until we learn the hard way, through more "unprovoked attacks", war, death and destruction.

jeffbr

angelica wrote:

Lying to one's self is lying to one's self. Denial. Like I said, to say one or ones friends, neighbours etc. do not feel fear is ludicrous and unrealistic. It's like saying you don't see the colour green. Either you acknowledge green when you see it, or you don't. To say you never see green indicates some form of denial.

People who face their fears learn to deal with them. People who deny them stay trapped because by not facing them, they do not learn healthy ways to cope with them, and therefore they will continue to go unconscious where they exist beyond one's control. It is integration of one's experiences that leads to realism, not denial. Your all or nothing view of the subject shows a lack of understanding of integration.

Like I say, the majority remains unconscious of their emotions. It's where we are evolutionarily at this time.

It is a clever trap you've set - requiring all of us to fear. Those who know it and those who don't only differ in their self-awareness?

You may have fear. You may think you're winning, because you recognize your fear and are dealing with it. And it probably makes you feel better thinking everyone else fears as well, so you're not alone.

Realism is exactly the point. I am realistic. I don't fear going certain places because I'm realistic enough not to go to them. I don't fear a terrorist attack on my home because I'm realistic enough to know the odds are infinitesimal. Perhaps we're using words in unintended ways.

angelica

jeffbr wrote:

It is a clever trap you've set - requiring all of us to fear. Those who know it and those who don't only differ in their self-awareness?

You may have fear. You may think you're winning, because you recognize your fear and are dealing with it. And it probably makes you feel better thinking everyone else fears as well, so you're not alone.

Realism is exactly the point. I am realistic. I don't fear going certain places because I'm realistic enough not to go to them. I don't fear a terrorist attack on my home because I'm realistic enough to know the odds are infinitesimal. Perhaps we're using words in unintended ways.

It's our brain wiring and our emotions that require us to fear. If it makes you feel better to put that off on me, I call that a distinct form of denial.

Denial is not realism. It's the opposite, my friend.

And as is the point that is being made about this fear, your fear is evident despite your denial of it. If you are staying home, and being "realistic" and not going to certain places, I know what that means, even though you are denying your apparently unconscious emotions with "rationalizations".

The things is when we learn to face our fears, we also learn which fears are rational and which are not. Shutting them out completely, we prevent ourselves from running them through "higher" logical processes.

jeffbr

angelica wrote:

The things is when we learn to face our fears, we also learn which fears are rational and which are not.

OK, so we're probably just going to go around in circles - owing to my apparent issues of denial. But back to the main premise, and based on your comment above, if we know which fears are not rational, do we still fear those things?

Say I've faced my fears of terrorism, decided that it isn't rational. Some foreigner comes here and says - most americans live in fear. What is my response? Yes, we do, but we understand that they aren't rational? That seems a bit unstable. Or - No we don't, we've dealt with those fears and dismissed them? Well, if I say no, then am I not in denial?

angelica

jeffbr wrote:

OK, so we're probably just going to go around in circles - owing to my apparent issues of denial. But back to the main premise, and based on your comment above, if we know which fears are not rational, do we still fear those things?

Say I've faced my fears of terrorism, decided that it isn't rational. Some foreigner comes here and says - most americans live in fear. What is my response? Yes, we do, but we understand that they aren't rational? That seems a bit unstable. Or - No we don't, we've dealt with those fears and dismissed them? Well, if I say no, then am I not in denial?

We can't effectively decide that something (terrorism fears, for example) is rational with a blanket generalization. Each fear must be faced on it's own merits given the situation it arises in. Each terrorism issue as well. Therefore it becomes an ongoing process. That's why a blanket generalized statement regarding fear reveals itself as not rational. It shows that unconscious emotions are distorting rational processes. If I were an American I would opt not to perpetuate stereotypes either way--ie: we're all afraid; we're all not afraid. You're certainly entitled to your personal appraisal as your subjective opinion though, as to your own and the levels of fear around you.

I do greatly appreciate your logical and rational ability to discuss such issues, jeffbr.

PaperPlates

Commy wrote:

don't know any scared Americans? Know any republicans? The entire party's ideology is based on fear. "Peace through strength" as they put it, an oxymoron really, but the idea is the whole world is out to get us so we better get them first. And the majority of people who vote republican buy into that idea...and incidentally are the ones most negatively affected by their policies at home.

You buy this crap hook line and sinker commy. I know PLENTY of Republicans. Very few seem scared in their lives. I also know plenty of liberals, and they, quite frankly, seem scared of EVERYTHING.

farfromglorified

FloydJam wrote:

Ok...so I lived in Canada my whole life until 2 months ago when I moved here to the US for school. I must say, despite the crime, bullshit politics, and capitalism to the max, I am really enjoying my time here...this really is a beautiful country and people don't give it much credit. Canadians seem to have this preconception that Americans are all un-intelligent, self-indulgent people but I've met so many nice, decent people and has really changed my view of the US..just thought I'd say this because I see alot of negativity towards the US these days...

Nice to have you here. Enjoy your time...there are many wonders in this great nation.

melodious

PaperPlates wrote:

You buy this crap hook line and sinker commy. I know PLENTY of Republicans. Very few seem scared in their lives. I also know plenty of liberals, and they, quite frankly, seem scared of EVERYTHING.

that's becasue might may make right????? just a hello to ya, plates..