If you were paying attention, you would have noticed that the similarities between Bush/Cheney and Chavez are uncanny.
As for economic reforms in Venezuela, at this point in time, that is nothing more then a verbal smoke-screen and fictional-political PR inititive. No such thing has ocuured, nor are there any signs of such a thing being put into effect.
Try talking to some Venezuelians and see what they have to say on the subject, lol.
Interestingly, there was a member here a few weeks back, who had gone to Venezuela to visit her family and came back with a very negative report and experience of Chavez's contributions and work for their citizens and infrastructure.
Her comments got my curiosity up, on this subject.
Roughly 13 years ago I was working in a management position for a corporation in New Jersey. I made some good friends with several people there and for many years we worked side-by-side. Two of them are Venezuelian.
After thinking about what that MT member said, I called them both up, to see if they had any insight. Well, it took some doing because both of them had moved on from the company and one moved out of New Jersey. But after contacting mutual friends and running them down, I was able to reach both.
I didn't really expect that they would have similar opinions on the subject, but to my surprise they both conveyed similar stories and opinions, as the MT member.
They both have remaining families there and they spoke of a divided populace.
As well as deteriating infrastructures and scarce quality health care facitlites (hospitals, doctors and such). She also said in some areas people are having a difficult time getting food and clean water. Not a pretty picture.
It was their opinions that Chavez has doing practically nothing for the people, but his wealthy supporters are getting much of what they want.
Interestingly, there was a member here a few weeks back, who had gone to Venezuela to visit her family and came back with a very negative report and experience of Chavez's contributions and work for their citizens and infrastructure.
Her comments got my curiosity up, on this subject.
Roughly 13 years ago I was working in a management position for a corporation in New Jersey. I made some good friends with several people there and for many years we worked side-by-side. Two of them are Venezuelian.
After thinking about what that MT member said, I called them both up, to see if they had any insight. Well, it took some doing because both of them had moved on from the company and one moved out of New Jersey. But after contacting mutual friends and running them down, I was able to reach both.
I didn't really expect that they would have similar opinions on the subject, but to my surprise they both conveyed similar stories and opinions, as the MT member.
They both have remaining families there and they spoke of a divided populace.
As well as deteriating infrastructures and scarce quality health care facitlites (hospitals, doctors and such). She also said in some areas people are having a difficult time getting food and clean water. Not a pretty picture.
It was their opinions that Chavez has doing practically nothing for the people, but his wealthy supporters are getting much of what they want.
Sounds so very familiar, doesn't it?
Interesting.....thanks for the info. What exactly has he promised to offer....and how is that some people view him any different than the sterotyped South American leader who helps the wealthy and uses promises on the poor?
Interestingly, there was a member here a few weeks back, who had gone to Venezuela to visit her family and came back with a very negative report and experience of Chavez's contributions and work for their citizens and infrastructure.
Her comments got my curiosity up, on this subject.
Well, I've just visited Venezuela three weeks ago and in my opinion, yes, it is a lot of talking and very little action. I'd not been in Venezuela since 1997 and it was a real shock to find Caracas looking almost exactly like it did 9 years, except for the fact that the amount of slum dwells had largely increased and that many streets of Caracas made me wonder if the country was at war, 'cause the size of the holes in the streets was unbelievable.
About economic facts. Well, poverty and inequality have increased between 1998 and 2003 (latest available data). Also food imports are reaching an all time high.
Well, I've just visited Venezuela three weeks ago and in my opinion, yes, it is a lot of talking and very little action. I'd not been in Venezuela since 1997 and it was a real shock to find Caracas looking almost exactly like it did 9 years, except for the fact that the amount of slum dwells had largely increased and that many streets of Caracas made me wonder if the country was at war, 'cause the size of the holes in the streets was unbelievable.
About economic facts. Well, poverty and inequality have increased between 1998 and 2003 (latest available data). Also food imports are reaching an all time high.
Interesting.....thanks for the info. What exactly has he promised to offer....and how is that some people view him any different than the sterotyped South American leader who helps the wealthy and uses promises on the poor?
Well, here's my opinion as both a South American inhabitant and as a professional working in a project devoted to analysing political junctures and issues of Latin America. Chavez has much better press in Europe, and generally speaking in developed countries, than here in Latin America.
Here in Latinamerica the most respected politicians, in general terms, are Frmr. President Ricardo Lagos (Chile), Frmr. President Fernando Henrique Cardoso (Brasil), President Tavare Vazquez (Uruguay).
Again, generally speaking, the country most quoted , or considered as a reference, for other Latinamerican countries (leaving aside developed countries, of course) is Chile. Chile's success in reducing poverty since the return of democracy is quite an example for all of us. Of course Chile has a lot to accomplish yet, but many believe the country is on the right path...
Well, here's my opinion as both a South American inhabitant and as a professional working in a project devoted to analysing political junctures and issues of Latin America. Chavez has much better press in Europe, and generally speaking in developed countries, than here in Latin America.
Here in Latinamerica the most respected politicians, in general terms, are Frmr. President Ricardo Lagos (Chile), Frmr. President Fernando Henrique Cardoso (Brasil), President Tavare Vazquez (Uruguay).
Again, generally speaking, the country most quoted , or considered as a reference, for other Latinamerican countries (leaving aside developed countries, of course) is Chile. Chile's success in reducing poverty since the return of democracy is quite an example for all of us. Of course Chile has a lot to accomplish yet, but many believe the country is on the right path...
What has Chile began that other SA countries could use as a template?
Sorry for my ignorance but my knowledge in this part of the world is rather limited.
What has Chile began that other SA countries could use as a template?
Sorry for my ignorance but my knowledge in this part of the world is rather limited.
Well, there are many features of Chile that other Latinamerican countries could use as an example, like the fact that institutions work, justice works, there is little corruption between politicians and those who are caught most of the time have to face prosecution or a trial or some kind of a sanction, tax evasion in Chile is very low, there is little discretional public expenditure, the government has to account for its actions, economic policy is balanced between fiscal responsibility and social expenditure, even though Cooper (Chile's main natural resource) has reached historic prices the goverment is saving all the excedents instead of succumbing to the temptation of spending it without actually analyzing which sector of the country could benefit with extra-public expenditure...and mot remarkably: poverty, between 1990 and 2003 diminished from 36.6% to 18.6%, that's 20 percentile points in a decade. For developed countries 18.6% is a lot, but for Latinamerican standards is quite low, and the decreasing trend has kept its path, hence when new data is available poverty should be lower...
Of course, and I'll say it again, Chile has to improve in many areas, like inequality, education (there are significant gaps in terms of quality), improve the social protection system in general and investment in R&D, and others. However, many analysts, academics and politicians believe that Chile could actually become a developed country in a decade or so...
My lunch has just arrived, but I'll provide you some links about Chile. Manuel Castells (the Spanish sociologist) has written a lot about Chile's evolution since the return of democracy...
Well, there are many features of Chile that other Latinamerican countries could use as an example, like the fact that institutions work, justice works, there is little corruption between politicians and those who are caught most of the time have to face prosecution or a trial or some kind of a sanction, tax evasion in Chile is very low, there is little discretional public expenditure, the government has to account for its actions, economic policy is balanced between fiscal responsibility and social expenditure, even though Cooper (Chile's main natural resource) has reached historic prices the goverment is saving all the excedents instead of succumbing to the temptation of spending it without actually analyzing which sector of the country could benefit with extra-public expenditure...and mot remarkably: poverty, between 1990 and 2003 diminished from 36.6% to 18.6%, that's 20 percentile points in a decade. For developed countries 18.6% is a lot, but for Latinamerican standards is quite low, and the decreasing trend has kept its path, hence when new data is available poverty should be lower...
Of course, and I'll say it again, Chile has to improve in many areas, like inequality, education (there are significant gaps in terms of quality), improve the social protection system in general and investment in R&D, and others. However, many analysts, academics and politicians believe that Chile could actually become a developed country in a decade or so...
My lunch has just arrived, but I'll provide you some links about Chile. Manuel Castells (the Spanish sociologist) has written a lot about Chile's evolution since the return of democracy...
Peace from Argentina
Caterina
Cool thanks...that would be appreciated Caterina....:)
My lunch has just arrived, but I'll provide you some links about Chile. Manuel Castells (the Spanish sociologist) has written a lot about Chile's evolution since the return of democracy...
Peace from Argentina
Caterina
Santiago..and loved it.....August last year....great people....and ski'ed...cool. My fondest memory was though walking downtown Santiago..and on buildings.......stenciled "Bush es una Terroriste". Sure I killed the spelling. I couldn't help but smile.
courious...what has she said...that sounds rediculous..and again from the point of view of a mother that lost her son in the Iraq conflict.
Cindy Sheehan, the mother of a U.S. soldier who was killed in Sadr City, Iraq, on April 4, 2004, expressed her distress and frustration... "Am I emotional? Yes, my first born was murdered. Am I angry? Yes, he was killed for lies and for a PNAC Neo-Con agenda to benefit Israel. My son joined the Army to protect America, not Israel. Am I stupid? No, I know full-well that my son, my family, this nation, and this world were betrayed by George [W.] Bush who was influenced by the neo-con PNAC agenda after 9/11."
Funny. Statements like that fit right in on the moving train. Is Cindy on this board???
Cool thanks...that would be appreciated Caterina....:)
You know, Castells' papers are all in spanish :(
But here there are a couple of links to two ECLAC's publications. ECLAC is the Economic Comission for Latin America and the Caribbean (it is a United Nations Sytem Organization). You'll find data about Chile and the rest of the region, should you be interested in comparing:
Both links provide socioeconomic data, they are good start to gather information about Latin America's social evolution. Regarding politics, all the papers I have are in spanish but I'll find something in english...
Santiago..and loved it.....August last year....great people....and ski'ed...cool. My fondest memory was though walking downtown Santiago..and on buildings.......stenciled "Bush es una Terroriste". Sure I killed the spelling. I couldn't help but smile.
Santiago..and loved it.....August last year....great people....and ski'ed...cool. My fondest memory was though walking downtown Santiago..and on buildings.......stenciled "Bush es una Terroriste". Sure I killed the spelling. I couldn't help but smile.
Yes, Santiago is quite beautiful. I was born there. My parents and most of my relatives live in Santiago, so I go very often (at least twice a year). Glad you liked Santiago
Your spelling was almost 100% correct; only terrorista was mispelled.
I'm against grafitti....remember it was on a building downtown...that was gutted inside...from a fire long time ago..lots of people died there...was a historical monument.....also on sidewalks all over the place....again made me smile....and also made me sad thinking soooo many people in the world think unfavorable of the US due to Georgy...
Last Thursday Cindy Sheehan was at Univeristy of Washington to give a talk. My friend who served in the Army and spent 13 months in Iraq asked me to go down and be there as he held up his sign expressing his dislike for her. I agreed and went down. They have a big grass lawn at the UW in front of the Husky Union Building (HUB), this is were Cindy and her friends were demonstrating. They set up what they called Northwest Arlington Cemetery. They made about 2300 paper tombstones and filled this giant lawn with them. Each tombstone had a soldiers name and when he died in Iraq or Afghanistan. It was pretty sobering. Anyway I meet some interesting people must of whom I completely disagree with, but we were able to have a nice peaceful discussion on our different world views.
Cindy came out and gave her speech and as I was listening to her talk about her son and how he never agreed with the war or George Bush, (Casey by the by reenlisted with the Army, while he was in Iraq), and how she wanted to honor him, (yet she never thought to honor him with a proper gravestone at his grave site, even the the DOD had given her close to 250,000 for Casey's death, his father within the past several months bought Casey the gravestone to honor him.) Ms. Sheehan was crying when talking about her son, yet not a few minutes later she was laughing and hugging people a total 180 from what she had been like when the cameras were on. It made me just sick to watch her. I don't know what it is like to lose a loved one in Iraq, and I know that she feels a huge lose for her son, but to see her just stand up there and turn on those alligator tears and not a few minutes later be laughing it up with some friends. I really feel that she is dishonoring her son and the rest of the people who lost there life in Iraq, when I see her act the way she did. I hope she takes her 250,000 and finds a nice little spot in Venezula.
I'm against grafitti....remember it was on a building downtown...that was gutted inside...from a fire long time ago..lots of people died there...was a historical monument.....also on sidewalks all over the place....again made me smile....and also made me sad thinking soooo many people in the world think unfavorable of the US due to Georgy...
Did you think what I posted was ridiculous, or just the words of a greiving mother?
And agree with those who said move to Caracas or Tehran or Damascus if you prefer those regimes to ours.
______________
Irvine 1992, Las Vegas 1993, Mountain View 1994, San Diego 1995, Los Angeles 1996, Los Angeles 1998, Moutain View 1999, San Bernadino 2000, Los Angeles 2000, Irvine 2003, Irvine 2003, Moutain View 2003, Santa Barbara 2003, San Diego 2006, Los Angeles 2006, Santa Barbara 2006
Yes Bush is out of touch and I would compare him to the devil but Chavez is phsyco. I would suggest moving to Venezuala and see if you survive.
Wake up and smell the coffee. Chavez is an egomaniac simply looking to fill the eventual void in Latin America when Castro crokes at the expense of his own people just like Castro did to his. If you like these people's views so much because you hear what they say on the TV, get off your butt and go to these countries and see what these despots do to their own people.
______________
Irvine 1992, Las Vegas 1993, Mountain View 1994, San Diego 1995, Los Angeles 1996, Los Angeles 1998, Moutain View 1999, San Bernadino 2000, Los Angeles 2000, Irvine 2003, Irvine 2003, Moutain View 2003, Santa Barbara 2003, San Diego 2006, Los Angeles 2006, Santa Barbara 2006
Comments
So is this guy been all talk?
Big promises but nothing to show for it.....
Interestingly, there was a member here a few weeks back, who had gone to Venezuela to visit her family and came back with a very negative report and experience of Chavez's contributions and work for their citizens and infrastructure.
Her comments got my curiosity up, on this subject.
Roughly 13 years ago I was working in a management position for a corporation in New Jersey. I made some good friends with several people there and for many years we worked side-by-side. Two of them are Venezuelian.
After thinking about what that MT member said, I called them both up, to see if they had any insight. Well, it took some doing because both of them had moved on from the company and one moved out of New Jersey. But after contacting mutual friends and running them down, I was able to reach both.
I didn't really expect that they would have similar opinions on the subject, but to my surprise they both conveyed similar stories and opinions, as the MT member.
They both have remaining families there and they spoke of a divided populace.
As well as deteriating infrastructures and scarce quality health care facitlites (hospitals, doctors and such). She also said in some areas people are having a difficult time getting food and clean water. Not a pretty picture.
It was their opinions that Chavez has doing practically nothing for the people, but his wealthy supporters are getting much of what they want.
Sounds so very familiar, doesn't it?
Interesting.....thanks for the info. What exactly has he promised to offer....and how is that some people view him any different than the sterotyped South American leader who helps the wealthy and uses promises on the poor?
It was a thread started by CaterinaA. She had an interesting, first-hand perspective. Definitly worth the read for those who missed it: http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=209013
Well, I've just visited Venezuela three weeks ago and in my opinion, yes, it is a lot of talking and very little action. I'd not been in Venezuela since 1997 and it was a real shock to find Caracas looking almost exactly like it did 9 years, except for the fact that the amount of slum dwells had largely increased and that many streets of Caracas made me wonder if the country was at war, 'cause the size of the holes in the streets was unbelievable.
About economic facts. Well, poverty and inequality have increased between 1998 and 2003 (latest available data). Also food imports are reaching an all time high.
Here's the link to my impressions about my trip Venezuela:
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=209013
Peace from Argentina
Caterina
Thanks for the info.....and the link....
Well, here's my opinion as both a South American inhabitant and as a professional working in a project devoted to analysing political junctures and issues of Latin America. Chavez has much better press in Europe, and generally speaking in developed countries, than here in Latin America.
Here in Latinamerica the most respected politicians, in general terms, are Frmr. President Ricardo Lagos (Chile), Frmr. President Fernando Henrique Cardoso (Brasil), President Tavare Vazquez (Uruguay).
Again, generally speaking, the country most quoted , or considered as a reference, for other Latinamerican countries (leaving aside developed countries, of course) is Chile. Chile's success in reducing poverty since the return of democracy is quite an example for all of us. Of course Chile has a lot to accomplish yet, but many believe the country is on the right path...
What has Chile began that other SA countries could use as a template?
Sorry for my ignorance but my knowledge in this part of the world is rather limited.
Well, there are many features of Chile that other Latinamerican countries could use as an example, like the fact that institutions work, justice works, there is little corruption between politicians and those who are caught most of the time have to face prosecution or a trial or some kind of a sanction, tax evasion in Chile is very low, there is little discretional public expenditure, the government has to account for its actions, economic policy is balanced between fiscal responsibility and social expenditure, even though Cooper (Chile's main natural resource) has reached historic prices the goverment is saving all the excedents instead of succumbing to the temptation of spending it without actually analyzing which sector of the country could benefit with extra-public expenditure...and mot remarkably: poverty, between 1990 and 2003 diminished from 36.6% to 18.6%, that's 20 percentile points in a decade. For developed countries 18.6% is a lot, but for Latinamerican standards is quite low, and the decreasing trend has kept its path, hence when new data is available poverty should be lower...
Of course, and I'll say it again, Chile has to improve in many areas, like inequality, education (there are significant gaps in terms of quality), improve the social protection system in general and investment in R&D, and others. However, many analysts, academics and politicians believe that Chile could actually become a developed country in a decade or so...
My lunch has just arrived, but I'll provide you some links about Chile. Manuel Castells (the Spanish sociologist) has written a lot about Chile's evolution since the return of democracy...
Peace from Argentina
Caterina
Cool thanks...that would be appreciated Caterina....:)
Santiago..and loved it.....August last year....great people....and ski'ed...cool. My fondest memory was though walking downtown Santiago..and on buildings.......stenciled "Bush es una Terroriste". Sure I killed the spelling. I couldn't help but smile.
Cindy Sheehan, the mother of a U.S. soldier who was killed in Sadr City, Iraq, on April 4, 2004, expressed her distress and frustration... "Am I emotional? Yes, my first born was murdered. Am I angry? Yes, he was killed for lies and for a PNAC Neo-Con agenda to benefit Israel. My son joined the Army to protect America, not Israel. Am I stupid? No, I know full-well that my son, my family, this nation, and this world were betrayed by George [W.] Bush who was influenced by the neo-con PNAC agenda after 9/11."
Funny. Statements like that fit right in on the moving train. Is Cindy on this board???
You know, Castells' papers are all in spanish :(
But here there are a couple of links to two ECLAC's publications. ECLAC is the Economic Comission for Latin America and the Caribbean (it is a United Nations Sytem Organization). You'll find data about Chile and the rest of the region, should you be interested in comparing:
http://www.eclac.cl/cgi-bin/getProd.asp?xml=/publicaciones/xml/4/24054/P24054.xml&xsl=/dds/tpl-i/p9f.xsl&base=/tpl/top-bottom.xslt
http://www.eclac.cl/publicaciones/xml/0/21540/lcg2331.pdf
Both links provide socioeconomic data, they are good start to gather information about Latin America's social evolution. Regarding politics, all the papers I have are in spanish but I'll find something in english...
You stenciled that?
Yes, Santiago is quite beautiful. I was born there. My parents and most of my relatives live in Santiago, so I go very often (at least twice a year). Glad you liked Santiago
Your spelling was almost 100% correct; only terrorista was mispelled.
I'm against grafitti....remember it was on a building downtown...that was gutted inside...from a fire long time ago..lots of people died there...was a historical monument.....also on sidewalks all over the place....again made me smile....and also made me sad thinking soooo many people in the world think unfavorable of the US due to Georgy...
Cindy came out and gave her speech and as I was listening to her talk about her son and how he never agreed with the war or George Bush, (Casey by the by reenlisted with the Army, while he was in Iraq), and how she wanted to honor him, (yet she never thought to honor him with a proper gravestone at his grave site, even the the DOD had given her close to 250,000 for Casey's death, his father within the past several months bought Casey the gravestone to honor him.) Ms. Sheehan was crying when talking about her son, yet not a few minutes later she was laughing and hugging people a total 180 from what she had been like when the cameras were on. It made me just sick to watch her. I don't know what it is like to lose a loved one in Iraq, and I know that she feels a huge lose for her son, but to see her just stand up there and turn on those alligator tears and not a few minutes later be laughing it up with some friends. I really feel that she is dishonoring her son and the rest of the people who lost there life in Iraq, when I see her act the way she did. I hope she takes her 250,000 and finds a nice little spot in Venezula.
Did you think what I posted was ridiculous, or just the words of a greiving mother?
no offense, but you are fucking crazy
That is what I tried to say, in a very polite way...thank you my2hands.
Irvine 1992, Las Vegas 1993, Mountain View 1994, San Diego 1995, Los Angeles 1996, Los Angeles 1998, Moutain View 1999, San Bernadino 2000, Los Angeles 2000, Irvine 2003, Irvine 2003, Moutain View 2003, Santa Barbara 2003, San Diego 2006, Los Angeles 2006, Santa Barbara 2006
Irvine 1992, Las Vegas 1993, Mountain View 1994, San Diego 1995, Los Angeles 1996, Los Angeles 1998, Moutain View 1999, San Bernadino 2000, Los Angeles 2000, Irvine 2003, Irvine 2003, Moutain View 2003, Santa Barbara 2003, San Diego 2006, Los Angeles 2006, Santa Barbara 2006
it seems like Cindy Sheehan's main point here was what Bush is doing to our country and not what Chávez is doing to his.