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is this a joke

macgyver06macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
edited October 2007 in A Moving Train
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/10/us.turkey.armenians/index.html


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  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    While it is utterly horrorable what happened to the Armenian people in Turkey I do have to ask what is the purpose of labeling it a genocide almost 100 years after it happened. The saying a day late and a dollar short come to mind after reading the article.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSunLikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun Posts: 6,097
    wow Bushy is suddenly so worried about what the rest of the world thinks now. Where the fuck was this Bush 6 years ago?

    http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20071007-0909-scotus-mexicannational.html
  • macgyver06macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    mammasan wrote:
    While it is utterly horrorable what happened to the Armenian people in Turkey I do have to ask what is the purpose of labeling it a genocide almost 100 years after it happened. The saying a day late and a dollar short come to mind after reading the article.


    exactly. So the holocaust never existed either...



    go IRAN's president!
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    mammasan wrote:
    While it is utterly horrorable what happened to the Armenian people in Turkey I do have to ask what is the purpose of labeling it a genocide almost 100 years after it happened. The saying a day late and a dollar short come to mind after reading the article.

    because it is not easy to forget ... lest we let it happen again ...
  • LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSunLikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun Posts: 6,097
    macgyver06 wrote:
    exactly. So the holocaust never existed either...



    go IRAN's president!

    ???

    Anyway, is there a point to a fucking US congressional resolution classifying a genocide in a region thousands of miles away 100 years ago? Does this legislation have any bearing on anything whatsoever? Don't our elected officials have more important things to do?

    I doubt Armenians will forget 1.5 million people died because we did or did not pass a resolution recognizing it.
  • macgyver06macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    MrSmith wrote:
    ???

    Anyway, is there a point to a fucking US congressional resolution classifying a genocide in a region thousands of miles away 100 years ago? Does this legislation have any bearing on anything whatsoever? Don't our elected officials have more important things to do?

    I doubt Armenians will forget 1.5 million people died because we did or did not pass a resolution recognizing it.


    so you dont think its possible these people in our gov't dont mind genocide as long as they are our allies? that they wont mind running college kids over with tanks if they protest? that they wont mow you down in attempt to take the whitehouse with say....1000 citizens?
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    macgyver06 wrote:
    exactly. So the holocaust never existed either...



    go IRAN's president!

    Nope it never happened it's all part of a Jewish conspirasy to take over the world and the Jews also orchestrated 9/11.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSunLikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun Posts: 6,097
    macgyver06 wrote:
    so you dont think its possible these people in our gov't dont mind genocide as long as they are our allies? that they wont mind running college kids over with tanks if they protest? that they wont mow you down in attempt to take the whitehouse with say....1000 citizens?

    maybe, no, and probably
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    polaris wrote:
    because it is not easy to forget ... lest we let it happen again ...

    I agree that we should never forget that it happened, but shouldn't our elected officials be more concerned about present day genocide instead of passing resolutions about one that happened 100 years ago. If they are going to start doing that why not start a little closer to home and declare what we did to the Native Americans as genocide.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • macgyver06macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    i immediately got the impression that...(since this is now an issue and bush and rice think it was necessary to comment on their stance)... they are spineless...bush and rice..

    are we this afraid of turkey? to not only excuse them, but to go along with the idea that this never even happened...

    and its not an issue of...it happened so long ago..the issue here is character...once again.. these people remind us that they have no morals and have no backbone
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    macgyver06 wrote:
    i immediately got the impression that...(since this is now an issue and bush and rice think it was necessary to comment on their stance)... they are spineless...bush and rice..

    are we this afraid of turkey? to not only excuse them, but to go along with the idea that this never even happened...

    and its not an issue of...it happened so long ago..the issue here is character...once again.. these people remind us that they have no morals and have no backbone

    I'm not going to argue with you about this administration having no morals because your are spot on, but to criticize the government of Turkey for something that they did not do is a bit ridiculous. The atrocities against the Armenians was carried out by the Ottoman Empire not the current day Turkish state. Should Israel criticize Italy because of the brutal manner in which the Roman empire ruled over them?

    No one is saying that we shouldn't condemn the way the Armenian people where treated but Congress is just waiting fucking time and money by trying to pass a resolution about atrocities carried out 100 years ago by a regime that no longer exists.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • macgyver06macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    mammasan wrote:
    I'm not going to argue with you about this administration having no morals because your are spot on, but to criticize the government of Turkey for something that they did not do is a bit ridiculous. The atrocities against the Armenians was carried out by the Ottoman Empire not the current day Turkish state. Should Israel criticize Italy because of the brutal manner in which the Roman empire ruled over them?

    No one is saying that we shouldn't condemn the way the Armenian people where treated but Congress is just waiting fucking time and money by trying to pass a resolution about atrocities carried out 100 years ago by a regime that no longer exists.


    well lets hope the world is as spineless as this gov't when determining the correlation with the republican empire of the U.S. with its citizens in 100 years.
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    macgyver06 wrote:
    well lets hope the world is as spineless as this gov't when determining the correlation with the republican empire of the U.S. with its citizens in 100 years.

    In a 100 years we will still be the United States. So to hold the future us responsible is acceptable. 100 years ago Turkey was not Turkey, it was the Ottoman Empire. Like I said would it be fair to hold Italy responsible for the actions of the Roman empire?
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • macgyver06macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    mammasan wrote:
    In a 100 years we will still be the United States. So to hold the future us responsible is acceptable. 100 years ago Turkey was not Turkey, it was the Ottoman Empire. Like I said would it be fair to hold Italy responsible for the actions of the Roman empire?


    are they trying to hold the current gov't responsible in turkey? people apparently in turkey don't consider it genocide.
  • macgyver06macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    also..we may still be the U.S. but our govt will be completely different as it is now compared to 1900
  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    Yeah you wouldn't want to hurt relations when you are trying to wipe Iraq and everything it ever stood for out of the minds of people of the world. People will believe what they want and they don't need to hear whiners constantly bring it up like they are owed anything.
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    bush and rice are against this because they are afraid that turkey will be angered and that the US may not be able to use their airspace or their land for operations in the middle east. every supply going to our troops flies through turkey's airspace. and if the US plans on launching further attacks in iraq or going into iran, they will need to launch from or go through turkey to make it logistically possible.

    so the short of it is if turkey gets angry at us and denies our flying through their airspace, it makes further warring in the middle east more difficult logistically and less likely. that is the only reason bush and rice are against this.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • macgyver06macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    bush and rice are against this because they are afraid that turkey will be angered and that the US may not be able to use their airspace or their land for operations in the middle east. every supply going to our troops flies through turkey's airspace. and if the US plans on launching further attacks in iraq or going into iran, they will need to launch from or go through turkey to make it logistically possible.

    so the short of it is if turkey gets angry at us and denies our flying through their airspace, it makes further warring in the middle east more difficult logistically and less likely. that is the only reason bush and rice are against this.

    dude you win the free toaster!

    nice post!!!
  • macgyver06macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    bush and rice are against this because they are afraid that turkey will be angered and that the US may not be able to use their airspace or their land for operations in the middle east. every supply going to our troops flies through turkey's airspace. and if the US plans on launching further attacks in iraq or going into iran, they will need to launch from or go through turkey to make it logistically possible.

    so the short of it is if turkey gets angry at us and denies our flying through their airspace, it makes further warring in the middle east more difficult logistically and less likely. that is the only reason bush and rice are against this.

    also you get free bread fo rthe nada surf song in your location :) i love that cd
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    macgyver06 wrote:
    also you get free bread fo rthe nada surf song in your location :) i love that cd

    free bread!! sweet!!

    now i have something to put my frozen burgers on!! :)

    yes that cd is awesome btw.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    macgyver06 wrote:
    i immediately got the impression that...(since this is now an issue and bush and rice think it was necessary to comment on their stance)... they are spineless...bush and rice..

    are we this afraid of turkey? to not only excuse them, but to go along with the idea that this never even happened...

    Turkey is supplying the U.S with strategic airbases. That's what it comes down to. Just like Israel is simply a strategic U.S military base which would disappear the day America decided to stop propping it up. It's just power politics over the deaths of 1.5 million people - whose ancestors want their voices heard, and want official recognition of what happened.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7038900.stm

    Thursday, 11 October 2007, 04:21 GMT 05:21 UK

    Turkey condemns US Armenia vote


    The Turkish president has denounced a vote by a committee of the US Congress recognising as genocide the 1915 mass killings of Armenians by Ottoman Turks.

    President Abdullah Gul said the decision was unacceptable and had no validity for Turkey, which has always denied any genocide took place.

    The White House said it was very disappointed by the non-binding vote.

    It fears Turkey could now limit cooperation in the war on terror and provision of military bases near Iraq.

    The genocide bill passed in the House Foreign Affairs Committee by 27 votes to 21 - the first step towards holding a vote in the House of Representatives.

    President Bush had argued against a vote in favour of the bill, saying "its passage would do great harm to our relations with a key ally in Nato and in the global war on terror".

    Turkey is a regional operational hub for the US military, and some suggest access to Incirlik airbase, or other supply lines crucial to US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan, could be cut in response.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    i am so sick of politics. and worse...politicians.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    catefrances wrote:
    i am so sick of politics. and worse...politicians.

    just exactly what they want
  • tybirdtybird Posts: 17,388
    mammasan wrote:
    In a 100 years we will still be the United States. So to hold the future us responsible is acceptable. 100 years ago Turkey was not Turkey, it was the Ottoman Empire. Like I said would it be fair to hold Italy responsible for the actions of the Roman empire?
    Some of the "efforts" against the Armenians took place both during the Ottoman years and during Turkish independence. Besides, the Turks were the rulers of the empire at that time.
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    tybird wrote:
    Some of the "efforts" against the Armenians took place both during the Ottoman years and during Turkish independence. Besides, the Turks were the rulers of the empire at that time.

    I knew that the Ottoman Empire was ruled by Turks but was not aware that the atrocities carried out against the Armenians also transpired after Turkish independence. Thank you for correcting me.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    congress doesn't have anything else to do but debate the proper terminology for something that happened 100 years ago?
  • tybirdtybird Posts: 17,388
    mammasan wrote:
    I knew that the Ottoman Empire was ruled by Turks but was not aware that the atrocities carried out against the Armenians also transpired after Turkish independence. Thank you for correcting me.
    Not correcting.....such a harsh word.....just informing. :)
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSunLikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun Posts: 6,097
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    bush and rice are against this because they are afraid that turkey will be angered and that the US may not be able to use their airspace or their land for operations in the middle east. every supply going to our troops flies through turkey's airspace. and if the US plans on launching further attacks in iraq or going into iran, they will need to launch from or go through turkey to make it logistically possible.

    so the short of it is if turkey gets angry at us and denies our flying through their airspace, it makes further warring in the middle east more difficult logistically and less likely. that is the only reason bush and rice are against this.

    all this is pretty obviously stated in the article...
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    MrSmith wrote:
    all this is pretty obviously stated in the article...

    i didn't read the article.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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