on the subject of sheep and your failure to understand reality..
PearlJam.com is in fact... get ready for this...
here to sell pearl jam
OH MY GODDDDD
who knew?
Who cares? I go to RalphNader.org and see links for Facebook and Myspace. You would think Mr. Anti-Corporation would be against (let alone provide a link to a group in his name) Myspace since it falls under NewsCorp.
Or could it be that people don't really care about Nader, therefore, no one seeks information about him or his stances...
It's not like he didn't have a national platform when he announced he was running this year...he was on Meet the Press...and fairly popular political show...
Right or wrong, it seems that many people just don't care for him, which sadly trumps his stance on issues...
Being on a show once does not give the public a chance to really get to know Nader. And on top of that, before they even let him get into the issues, they ask him a string of questions about being a spoiler and a long shot thus tainting the viewers perception of him before he even gets to bring up his platform
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Being on a show once does not give the public a chance to really get to know Nader. And on top of that, before they even let him get into the issues, they ask him a string of questions about being a spoiler and a long shot thus tainting the viewers perception of him before he even gets to bring up his platform
I have to ask, isn't the public's job to educate themselves...when did it become the media's job to educate people on party platforms..?
I watched MTP that morning, and the questions to Ralph were legitimate questions, ones that any voter would be asking...
All the .com debate is ridiculous. I have a .com as my personal website. I just use it to play with new technologies and let people know what's going on in my life. I guess if you want to say I am selling myself, then there is no website out there (regardless of the extension) that is not trying to sell something.
I agree that he doesn't get the exposure as major party candidates, that isn't the only reason that he won't win. And I don't think that it's some corporate media blacklist that keeps him off the air... Ralph Nader just isn't interesting or sexy enough to get TV ratings. Ross Perot made a splash as a 3rd party candidate because he spent a ton of money and came in during the right political climate... He got lucky, and the media picked up on him.[/quote]
If you think media exposure isn't huge in deciding this election then I'm going to have to say you are being naive. And it's also the way they cover him...they make sure to point out how he's a 'spoiler' and 'long shot' before he gets a word out. And how do they know if he's a long shot when he just announced he's running? They have no problem going ahead and painting him the way they wish him to be seen by viewers. The media treats anyone running that isn't in the two major parties as second class citizens who don't belong there instead of looking at their platforms and reporting on how they are very much needed in a healthy democracy. And I hate to break it to you but are any of the candidates 'sexy' or 'interesting' if so, how are they and Nader isn't? It seems to me you're purely speaking with bias here.
I wrote this in an earlier Nader thread, but I think it's true:
I know he doesn't actually quit working in the years in between, but what I was saying that if he is serious about turning around our government, he has to find a way to get the grassroots working. You see major candidates start years ahead of time in Iowa, doing a lot of door to door campaigning, developing local offices, and just getting out there. I'm not so sure that Nader does that enough. Also, he's no spring chicken, what happens to the movement when he is gone? There needs to be a charismatic leader to pick up where he leaves off.
Nader already has the answer to that this year. Matt Gonzalez is young, charismatic, atriculate, bright and quite good looking.....*sigh* I could go on and on.
And as far as people getting their news from other sources, that maybe true, but the vast majority of the people aren't digging any deeper... You look at Google searches and Yahoo news searches, and the top searched categories are still celebrity gossip, and whatever the story of the day is on the cable news networks. People are going different places, but the major news media is still setting the agenda.
I never claimed the change had already occurred this year....looking at the front runners, it's more than apparent it hasn't happened yet. The point is that this gradual change is underway and growing rapidly. That doesn't bode well for Obama because a lot of leftist types are rejecting him all over the net...it ain't just me. They are rejecting him because although his words are promising, his record and past are mediocre and show signs of pandering and corruption. We might not be the majority but many of us will not keep voting for people who don't deserve it. One can argue this hurt Kerry. I mean he lost to Bush and everyone was shocked by it. People weren't eager to get behind Kerry even when he was up again GWWorstPresidentEver. People were bitching about Kerry all over the internet then, too. I remember because I was here like you supporting the Dems.
That's why it has to be a ground-up change... Older voters are still going to vote for their party, and as younger voters get older, once they have their own families, etc., a lot of us get more complacent and apathetic to some huge change... we have a million other day-to-day things to worry about.
People are running green and independent on the local level. Ralph Nader is a brilliant man and his voice needs to be heard as much as possible nationally. He has the respect, and rightfully so, of many activist and civic groups because he has been successful at fighting the powers that be and making them listen and actually winning and GETTING THINGS DONE. He is an inspiration, he knows his stuff and people, every 4 years, ask him to run FOR A GOOD REASON. He makes the major candidates address issues they weren't and won't otherwise...or else lose voters like me. He keeps them honest by bringing up their shady dealings and contradictory records and votes. Without him, they could say and do whatever they wanted because like you mentioned....the voters aren't doing their homework themselves.
That goes back to your thread about what will it take to resist... I have a wife and a family, we juggle child care and other schedules, rising prices on gas and every other bills, and lack of free time, so when we do get a weekend off or some evenings off, we would much rather do fun "family" stuff, then worry about changing all of the wrongs with the world... Once our daily lives and freedoms get noticeable altered, only then will most people resist.
Well, I'll just say that it's sad we as a nation aren't taking a more active role in civics and addressing these concerns, holding our officials accountable while we still can. Because I know from experience, we all do, if you ignore a problem, let it grow bigger and bigger....it becomes harder and harder to control or even do anything about. It's up to us to take the time to take the responsibility it takes it to keep our democracy healthy and running the way it should. If we keep slacking and keep allowing all the work to be done by others, you can guarantee that they aren't going to be doing what's best for us as a whole....they are going to keep doing what's best for them and their cronies while we continue to pay for it. Holding your government accountable isn't easy...it's not like sitting down watching the ballgame but it is a very necessary part of being a citizen if we want our country to be a great one, one that we can be proud of that reflects the values of it's people. Instead of hearing people continue to bitch and threaten to more to Canada or elsewhere. But maybe the values of America's people is being reflected by shopping, consuming and watching sports....maybe our country and the way it is running itself and the world isn't important enough for people to take the time and do something. We have to be the change....not the next generation, it has to be us.
So, if you start getting third party candidates on local town boards, and city councils, then state government positions, and people see a difference, then we might see a reduction in the power of a two party system.
Nader has started or helped start a ton of citizen groups that do grassroot, local type activist work. And others are running for office on local levels from 3rd parties. There needs to be people running to provide choice in this, our democracy, on ALL levels.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Would be pretty happy with the minuscule coverage given to Mr. Nader...
Nader earned his right to be covered and is quick to blast the media for bias. They try to appear that they aren't but throwing a bone here and there and then using a lot of the time to bring up the 'spoiler' and 'long shot' angle suits their purposes to appear unbiased and still manage to skew the appearance of his potential run.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Well, that was Nader's idea, wasn't it? Or maybe Kucinich...can't remember.
I don't know who came up with None of the Above and I didn't mean to take credit for it. Ralph Nader often promotes it, but i'm sure it's been kicking around, like any other good political idea, for far too long...
they are by far the leading source for peoples ''knowledge'' of the world... how can you not blame them when they are taking money and handing money to candidates and parties?
they are by far the leading source for peoples ''knowledge'' of the world... how can you not blame them when they are taking money and handing money to candidates and parties?
I have to admit...I'm unaware of an money taking and handing to candidates...
enlighten me please...
also, I guess you see it as the media's job to educate voters, rather that a voter educating themselves...interesting...
I have to admit...I'm unaware of an money taking and handing to candidates...
enlighten me please...
also, I guess you see it as the media's job to educate voters, rather that a voter educating themselves...interesting...
and what is the point of the media if it lies to you?
Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
Yep that sounds like a truly great plan, good thinking. Or, i don't know maybe we could go back to having an independent media that is not controlled by men with way to much money and secrets to keep. Hell i'm not really sure that ever existed.
Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
Yep that sounds like a truly great plan, good thinking. Or, i don't know maybe we could go back to having an independent media that is not controlled by men with way to much money and secrets to keep. Hell i'm not really sure that ever existed.
Comments
Who cares? I go to RalphNader.org and see links for Facebook and Myspace. You would think Mr. Anti-Corporation would be against (let alone provide a link to a group in his name) Myspace since it falls under NewsCorp.
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
um...ok
I guess the fact Nader got some face time in NBC and MSNBC is irrelevant...
Comparatively, the coverage is minuscule.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Being on a show once does not give the public a chance to really get to know Nader. And on top of that, before they even let him get into the issues, they ask him a string of questions about being a spoiler and a long shot thus tainting the viewers perception of him before he even gets to bring up his platform
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I guess, but I'd be willing to bet the Mike Gravel or the Green Party or Wayne Allyn Root or any of these folks:
http://www.votesmart.org/election_president_search.php?type=alpha
Would be pretty happy with the minuscule coverage given to Mr. Nader...
I have to ask, isn't the public's job to educate themselves...when did it become the media's job to educate people on party platforms..?
I watched MTP that morning, and the questions to Ralph were legitimate questions, ones that any voter would be asking...
http://www.votesmart.org/bio.php?can_id=101185
What a ridiculous post.
If you think media exposure isn't huge in deciding this election then I'm going to have to say you are being naive. And it's also the way they cover him...they make sure to point out how he's a 'spoiler' and 'long shot' before he gets a word out. And how do they know if he's a long shot when he just announced he's running? They have no problem going ahead and painting him the way they wish him to be seen by viewers. The media treats anyone running that isn't in the two major parties as second class citizens who don't belong there instead of looking at their platforms and reporting on how they are very much needed in a healthy democracy. And I hate to break it to you but are any of the candidates 'sexy' or 'interesting' if so, how are they and Nader isn't? It seems to me you're purely speaking with bias here.
Nader already has the answer to that this year. Matt Gonzalez is young, charismatic, atriculate, bright and quite good looking.....*sigh* I could go on and on.
I never claimed the change had already occurred this year....looking at the front runners, it's more than apparent it hasn't happened yet. The point is that this gradual change is underway and growing rapidly. That doesn't bode well for Obama because a lot of leftist types are rejecting him all over the net...it ain't just me. They are rejecting him because although his words are promising, his record and past are mediocre and show signs of pandering and corruption. We might not be the majority but many of us will not keep voting for people who don't deserve it. One can argue this hurt Kerry. I mean he lost to Bush and everyone was shocked by it. People weren't eager to get behind Kerry even when he was up again GWWorstPresidentEver. People were bitching about Kerry all over the internet then, too. I remember because I was here like you supporting the Dems.
People are running green and independent on the local level. Ralph Nader is a brilliant man and his voice needs to be heard as much as possible nationally. He has the respect, and rightfully so, of many activist and civic groups because he has been successful at fighting the powers that be and making them listen and actually winning and GETTING THINGS DONE. He is an inspiration, he knows his stuff and people, every 4 years, ask him to run FOR A GOOD REASON. He makes the major candidates address issues they weren't and won't otherwise...or else lose voters like me. He keeps them honest by bringing up their shady dealings and contradictory records and votes. Without him, they could say and do whatever they wanted because like you mentioned....the voters aren't doing their homework themselves.
Well, I'll just say that it's sad we as a nation aren't taking a more active role in civics and addressing these concerns, holding our officials accountable while we still can. Because I know from experience, we all do, if you ignore a problem, let it grow bigger and bigger....it becomes harder and harder to control or even do anything about. It's up to us to take the time to take the responsibility it takes it to keep our democracy healthy and running the way it should. If we keep slacking and keep allowing all the work to be done by others, you can guarantee that they aren't going to be doing what's best for us as a whole....they are going to keep doing what's best for them and their cronies while we continue to pay for it. Holding your government accountable isn't easy...it's not like sitting down watching the ballgame but it is a very necessary part of being a citizen if we want our country to be a great one, one that we can be proud of that reflects the values of it's people. Instead of hearing people continue to bitch and threaten to more to Canada or elsewhere. But maybe the values of America's people is being reflected by shopping, consuming and watching sports....maybe our country and the way it is running itself and the world isn't important enough for people to take the time and do something. We have to be the change....not the next generation, it has to be us.
Nader has started or helped start a ton of citizen groups that do grassroot, local type activist work. And others are running for office on local levels from 3rd parties. There needs to be people running to provide choice in this, our democracy, on ALL levels.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Very true, it is their job but are they doing it?
Not even close.
So should we just sit back and have our country's direction decided by these folks?
Not a chance. We have to keep fighting and spreading awareness any way we can.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Why?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Nader earned his right to be covered and is quick to blast the media for bias. They try to appear that they aren't but throwing a bone here and there and then using a lot of the time to bring up the 'spoiler' and 'long shot' angle suits their purposes to appear unbiased and still manage to skew the appearance of his potential run.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I don't know who came up with None of the Above and I didn't mean to take credit for it. Ralph Nader often promotes it, but i'm sure it's been kicking around, like any other good political idea, for far too long...
http://www.nota.org
good post.. i dont think anyone can argue with this
This I agree with....
Solely blaming the media, I don't agree with...
they are by far the leading source for peoples ''knowledge'' of the world... how can you not blame them when they are taking money and handing money to candidates and parties?
I have to admit...I'm unaware of an money taking and handing to candidates...
enlighten me please...
also, I guess you see it as the media's job to educate voters, rather that a voter educating themselves...interesting...
and what is the point of the media if it lies to you?
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
I don't know...
perhaps we should do away with it...right...?
if you dont understand GE donates money to political parties than im sorry... you are way behind
Yep that sounds like a truly great plan, good thinking. Or, i don't know maybe we could go back to having an independent media that is not controlled by men with way to much money and secrets to keep. Hell i'm not really sure that ever existed.
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
he he...
Well, I guess we're all fucked...
perhaps...
I never have solely blamed the media. I come on here blaming you guys everyday, too.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde