NT

Chris1401

NT

jlew24asu

better the a gun in their hand right?

MLC2006

first off, that guy wasn't tasered by a cop, he was tasered by a hospital security guard. secondly, the doctor who examined the baby afterwards said the baby did NOT have any head injuries. third, no one, particularly the father (who has a history of domestic violence convictions) can just walk into a hospital and take a newborn baby.

yes, I think it was a little much IF the hospital had one of those locking doors that would not allow the guy to leave, because the cops were on the way. at the same time though, some crazy fuck can't just be allowed to go into a hospital and demand that he be allowed to leave with a newborn baby.

prytocorduroy

The guy was looking around before he left to the hall. Seems quite suspicious to me. Carrying the baby with one arm? Would you carry your newborn so thoughtlessly? It appeared that the cops were telling him not to leave or something along those lines. The black cop was watching him out of the corner of his eye, so that guy probably made some movement and the cop impulsed. That's a pretty bad impulse reaction though, assuming it was.

Cosmo

Chris1401 wrote:

I found this while looking for the UF Student video. Just another example of why tasers are a quick out for cops who lack common sense. If you click the "more" button on the upper right portion, you can read the full article about the incident.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6vBVUusmP0

Short summary- Guy wanted to take his newborn home, for some reason he was not supposed too, he was carrying the baby, cop decided to tase him w/baby in arms, baby and guy both hit floor. Father claims baby has head inury.

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Basic Rule Of Thumb #37: If you don't ever want to get tasered... don't do fucking shit that'll get your ass tasered.

Chris1401

Here we go again.

Should the guy have taken the baby...no

Did the guy have a prior record....yes

Did he need to be stopped...yes

However,

The method in which was used endangered an innocient person and I am not sure what it will take before these "security guards" or cops will realize a taser is a usuful tool, however certain situations, such as ths require more than just reaching for a tool. It's like they have a one track mind. In this situation there needs to be a hospital security lockdown of the area. No foot traffic (rerouting in hospitals in common), shut down elevators, call for back up and negoiate (FOR THE SAFTEY OF THE BABY).

Then after the baby is out of harms way, taser the man if he wont comply. But it seems cops just reach for this "solution" and not fully analyzing the situations.

Cosmo

Chris1401 wrote:

Here we go again.

Should the guy have taken the baby...no

Did the guy have a prior record....yes

Did he need to be stopped...yes

However,

The method in which was used endangered an innocient person and I am not sure what it will take before these "security guards" or cops will realize a taser is a usuful tool, however certain situations, such as ths require more than just reaching for a tool. It's like they have a one track mind. In this situation there needs to be a hospital security lockdown of the area. No foot traffic (rerouting in hospitals in common), shut down elevators, call for back up and negoiate (FOR THE SAFTEY OF THE BABY).

Then after the baby is out of harms way, taser the man if he wont comply. But it seems cops just reach for this "solution" and not fully analyzing the situations.

...
I have a question... How?
How do you get the baby out of harms way if the guy is dead set on getting out? Shutting down elevators... okay... but, aren't there always stairs? Lock down the hospital? Okay... I just hope I'm not a traffic accident victim with serious internal bleeding en-route to that hospital because the next closest one is 42 minutes away.
Sometimes... people paint themselves into a corner where the only option is to taser their asses.

Chris1401

How do you justify if the baby was seriously injured or if the taser prong actually hit the baby. Human error comes into play.

I know this stuff didn't happen in this situation, but like I said, if police continue to use tasers as a first and only response tool, then the public is in danger.

And I am not saying shutdown the hospital, but I know there are procedures in place in hospitals and other similar venues where sections can be isolated without affecting other parts of the hospital.

Again, the father was wrong and should have been dealt with, but tasering is not the correct method IN THIS CASE.

Cosmo

Chris1401 wrote:

How do you justify if the baby was seriously injured or if the taser prong actually hit the baby. Human error comes into play.

I know this stuff didn't happen in this situation, but like I said, if police continue to use tasers as a first and only response tool, then the public is in danger.

And I am not saying shutdown the hospital, but I know there are procedures in place in hospitals and other similar venues where sections can be isolated without affecting other parts of the hospital.

Again, the father was wrong and should have been dealt with, but tasering is not the correct method IN THIS CASE.

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Thus, Basic Rule Of Thumb #38: Don't take your baby away from the hospital without being released by the staff unless you want to get your sorry ass tasered.
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And i can't say... I have never been in a position of policing. I have done crowd control at Dodger Stadium and the Long Beach Marathon... and trust me... there are a lot of assholes out there that need to get their asses tasered. Just follow the fucking directions... if the guy working there tells you to do something... just fucking do it. He's probably doing it for a reason.
As for this specific case... I don't know the entire story so I cannot form a valid opinion on what should or should not have been done. The only assessment I can make is the father should have followed the directions of the hospital staff. Was use of the taser called for or excessive? I don't know... I wasn't there.

MLC2006

Chris1401, why are still referring to this as police when it's already been pointed out that this guy was a SECURITY GUARD? I think you're just trying to paint the police in a bad light when this incident had nothing to do with police. either that, or you're just fucking thick. you're acting like tasering is a very bad thing and speak with authority on that opinion. however, I'm pretty sure that I've seen study results showing that tasering is a MUCH safer secondary weapon than a baton or mace. it gets the suspect into control quicker (less risk to the officer) and is actually less likely to cause injury to the suspect too. now that's not really relevant in this case. but at the same time, it was the father of the baby who put the baby's life at risk first and foremost. and as for the Florida case, the officers were 1000% percent right to taser the stupid ass.

Cosmo

MLC2006 wrote:

Chris1401, why are still referring to this as police when it's already been pointed out that this guy was a SECURITY GUARD? I think you're just trying to paint the police in a bad light when this incident had nothing to do with police. either that, or you're just fucking thick. you're acting like tasering is a very bad thing and speak with authority on that opinion. however, I'm pretty sure that I've seen study results showing that tasering is a MUCH safer secondary weapon than a baton or mace. it gets the suspect into control quicker (less risk to the officer) and is actually less likely to cause injury to the suspect too. now that's not really relevant in this case. but at the same time, it was the father of the baby who put the baby's life at risk first and foremost. and as for the Florida case, the officers were 1000% percent right to taser the stupid ass.

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Let me add... that unless the cops declare all out war on the civilians... i'm not getting tasered or pepper sprayed or beaten or shot by cops. The red lights pop up in my Rear View Mirror... guess what I'm doing? I'm pulling over. I know I cannot outrun a police cruiser in a '72 VW Beetle or a '99 Dodge Durango... and even if I was in a car that could... I'm definately not going to be able to outrun a helicopter or radio. I'm not giving them shit and doing what they tell me.
If they have guns drawn on me because they think i'm someone else... I'm following their orders. They'll figure out that I'm not the guy that just held up the 7-11 down the street and get back to looking for the guy who actually did.
Sure, I may arrive a little later to where I'm trying to get to... but, I'll get there... instead of the jail, the hospital or the morgue.

Chris1401

I'm not trying to paint police, security gaurds or anyone in a place of authority has power addicted assholes. Trust me, I'm don't plan on running from cops, etc.

And "fucking thick" is pretty ignorant.

Rather, studies have shown tasers are dangerous and if those who are tasered have a known or unknown medical condition, tasers act just like guns, they can be fatal.

Taser's offer a "person of authority" a good option in certain cases. Certainly not when an innocent baby is involved. Other times they are more effective and a better option than mase or a club, I am not arguing that point.

This guy deserved to be detained and prosecuted, but again, what if the baby had fallen and was seriously injured or even died?

It's all about common sense, there are other ways to diffuse this situtation. I would be patient and talk and call for backup (which would include a speciality nurse that would explain to the man that if was to take the baby home now it would be in very grave danger and the baby may die if not properly cared for and supervised by hospital staff).

The automatic response to use a taser in this type of situation is what gets to me. No common sense was used. It went from "man not complying to tase man".

Chris1401

MLC2006 wrote:

but at the same time, it was the father of the baby who put the baby's life at risk first and foremost.

So because some dumbass puts an innocent and unknowning baby at risk, cops should discredit the baby's saftey to get the suspect under control?

Cosmo

Chris1401 wrote:

I'm not trying to paint police, security gaurds or anyone in a place of authority has power addicted assholes. Trust me, I'm don't plan on running from cops, etc.

And "fucking thick" is pretty ignorant.

Rather, studies have shown tasers are dangerous and if those who are tasered have a known or unknown medical condition, tasers act just like guns, they can be fatal.

Taser's offer a "person of authority" a good option in certain cases. Certainly not when an innocent baby is involved. Other times they are more effective and a better option than mase or a club, I am not arguing that point.

This guy deserved to be detained and prosecuted, but again, what if the baby had fallen and was seriously injured or even died?

It's all about common sense, there are other ways to diffuse this situtation. I would be patient and talk and call for backup (which would include a speciality nurse that would explain to the man that if was to take the baby home now it would be in very grave danger and the baby may die if not properly cared for and supervised by hospital staff).

The automatic response to use a taser in this type of situation is what gets to me. No common sense was used. It went from "man not complying to tase man".

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Again... sticking to this specific case... do we know the complete story? Had the hospital's staff been directing the man... for several minutes... perhaps a couple of hours? Do we know whether what we are being shown is the tail end of a stalled negotiation? We don't.
At some point action has to be taken. I don't think it was a matter of, "Sir.. you cannot leave the hospital without filing these release forms... TASER HIM!!" I am going to speculate.. yes, purely guessing... that he had been arguing with the staff about it... they called in their security... who gave the guy specific orders... warnings.
That's my guess.

Kel Varnsen

Cosmo wrote:

...
Basic Rule Of Thumb #37: If you don't ever want to get tasered... don't do fucking shit that'll get your ass tasered.

Seriously yes it is a shame that the baby could have been hurt, but it was the guy holding the baby that put the baby in harms way, not the cops. He is pretty clearly the one responsible.

As far as tasering and that type of stuff goes I usually give cops the benefit of the doubt, unless it is proven that they acted without cause. I mean these guys have a super stressful job. I mean how many other people have a job where any interaction could possibly end up with you getting shot at, if that was my job I would much rather be safe then shot.