Bill's passed through Congress

HANKTHELANKHANKTHELANK Posts: 89
edited September 2006 in A Moving Train
Anybody have any views on the bill passed through congress last night. Personally I am very worried. The government is now becoming a dictatorship. With this new legeslation, which completely changes the law of this country and the rights of it's citizens, it is completely possible to be arrested for protesting against the government. In short if you argue against their methods of dealing with "Terrorism", then they can claom that you are a terrorist, or as they call it, an Enemy Combatant. Anyhow, this is probably the most significant bill ever passed and I havn't seen a thread on it. Please discuss, this is very important!!!
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • I haven't read the bill yet word-for-word... is there a link to where I can see it?
  • darkcrowdarkcrow Posts: 1,102
    well you know what you should do if you feel the country is becoming a dictatorship? rebel. rise up. overthrow your govt.... the ukraine did it quite well and peacfully with the orange revoultion. or you could just get your state to secede from the union... at least it wouldnt be over trying to keep slaves this time
  • darkcrow wrote:
    well you know what you should do if you feel the country is becoming a dictatorship? rebel. rise up. overthrow your govt.... the ukraine did it quite well and peacfully with the orange revoultion. or you could just get your state to secede from the union... at least it wouldnt be over trying to keep slaves this time

    I'd live in the Republic of Wisconsin any day...

    edit: joking - kind of
  • DPrival78DPrival78 Posts: 2,263
    i don't know.. it might not be so bad living in a fascist dictatorship..

    the sad thing is that most people, or so it seems, are more concerned with when 'deal or no deal' is on tv than the fact that this country is turning into nazi germany redux.
    i'm more a fan of popular bands.. like the bee-gees, pearl jam
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    10 (b) CONSTRUCTION.—The authority granted in
    11 subsection (a) shall not be construed to limit the authority
    12 of the President under the Constitution of the United
    13 States or the laws thereof to establish military commis14
    sions on the battlefield, in occupied territories, or in other
    15 armed conflicts should circumstances so require.

    16 (c) SCOPE OF PUNISHMENT AUTHORITY.—A mili17
    tary commission established pursuant to subsection (a)
    18 shall have authority to impose upon any person found
    19 guilty after a proceeding under this Act a sentence that is
    20 appropriate to the offense or offenses for which there was
    21 a finding of guilt, which sentence may include death
    22 where authorized by this Act, imprisonment for life or a
    23 term of years, payment of a fine or restitution, or such
    24 other lawful punishment or condition of punishment as
    25 the commission shall determine to be proper.

    So basically, they invade your country, set up a military base where they execute you if you resist occupation.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Hey America, still think your GI's in Iraq are fighting for your freedom ?
  • DPrival78DPrival78 Posts: 2,263
    here's an interesting take on this:

    http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/092906J.shtml

    In Case I Disappear
    By William Rivers Pitt
    t r u t h o u t | Perspective

    Friday 29 September 2006

    I have been told a thousand times at least, in the years I have spent reporting on the astonishing and repugnant abuses, lies and failures of the Bush administration, to watch my back. "Be careful," people always tell me. "These people are capable of anything. Stay off small planes, make sure you aren't being followed." A running joke between my mother and me is that she has a "safe room" set up for me in her cabin in the woods, in the event I have to flee because of something I wrote or said.

    I always laughed and shook my head whenever I heard this stuff. Extreme paranoia wrapped in the tinfoil of conspiracy, I thought. This is still America, and these Bush fools will soon pass into history, I thought. I am a citizen, and the First Amendment hasn't yet been red-lined, I thought.

    Matters are different now.

    It seems, perhaps, that the people who warned me were not so paranoid. It seems, perhaps, that I was not paranoid enough. Legislation passed by the Republican House and Senate, legislation now marching up to the Republican White House for signature, has shattered a number of bedrock legal protections for suspects, prisoners, and pretty much anyone else George W. Bush deems to be an enemy.

    So much of this legislation is wretched on the surface. Habeas corpus has been suspended for detainees suspected of terrorism or of aiding terrorism, so the Magna Carta-era rule that a person can face his accusers is now gone. Once a suspect has been thrown into prison, he does not have the right to a trial by his peers. Suspects cannot even stand in representation of themselves, another ancient protection, but must accept a military lawyer as their defender.

    Illegally-obtained evidence can be used against suspects, whether that illegal evidence was gathered abroad or right here at home. To my way of thinking, this pretty much eradicates our security in persons, houses, papers, and effects, as stated in the Fourth Amendment, against illegal searches and seizures.

    Speaking of collecting evidence, the torture of suspects and detainees has been broadly protected by this new legislation. While it tries to delineate what is and is not acceptable treatment of detainees, in the end, it gives George W. Bush the final word on what constitutes torture. US officials who use cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment to extract information from detainees are now shielded from prosecution.

    It was two Supreme Court decisions, Hamdi v. Rumsfeld and Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, that compelled the creation of this legislation. The Hamdi decision held that a prisoner has the right of habeas corpus, and can challenge his detention before an impartial judge. The Hamdan decision held that the military commissions set up to try detainees violated both the Uniform Code of Military Justice and the Geneva Conventions.

    In short, the Supreme Court wiped out virtually every legal argument the Bush administration put forth to defend its extraordinary and dangerous behavior. The passage of this legislation came after a scramble by Republicans to paper over the torture and murder of a number of detainees. As columnist Molly Ivins wrote on Wednesday, "Of the over 700 prisoners sent to Gitmo, only 10 have ever been formally charged with anything. Among other things, this bill is a CYA for torture of the innocent that has already taken place."

    It seems almost certain that, at some point, the Supreme Court will hear a case to challenge the legality of this legislation, but even this is questionable. If a detainee is not allowed access to a fair trial or to the evidence against him, how can he bring a legal challenge to a court? The legislation, in anticipation of court challenges like Hamdi and Hamdan, even includes severe restrictions on judicial review over the legislation itself.

    The Republicans in Congress have managed, at the behest of Mr. Bush, to draft a bill that all but erases the judicial branch of the government. Time will tell whether this aspect, along with all the others, will withstand legal challenges. If such a challenge comes, it will take time, and meanwhile there is this bill. All of the above is deplorable on its face, indefensible in a nation that prides itself on Constitutional rights, protections and the rule of law.

    Underneath all this, however, is where the paranoia sets in.

    Underneath all this is the definition of "enemy combatant" that has been established by this legislation. An "enemy combatant" is now no longer just someone captured "during an armed conflict" against our forces. Thanks to this legislation, George W. Bush is now able to designate as an "enemy combatant" anyone who has "purposefully and materially supported hostilities against the United States."

    Consider that language a moment. "Purposefully and materially supported hostilities against the United States" is in the eye of the beholder, and this administration has proven itself to be astonishingly impatient with criticism of any kind. The broad powers given to Bush by this legislation allow him to capture, indefinitely detain, and refuse a hearing to any American citizen who speaks out against Iraq or any other part of the so-called "War on Terror."

    If you write a letter to the editor attacking Bush, you could be deemed as purposefully and materially supporting hostilities against the United States. If you organize or join a public demonstration against Iraq, or against the administration, the same designation could befall you. One dark-comedy aspect of the legislation is that senators or House members who publicly disagree with Bush, criticize him, or organize investigations into his dealings could be placed under the same designation. In effect, Congress just gave Bush the power to lock them up.

    By writing this essay, I could be deemed an "enemy combatant." It's that simple, and very soon, it will be the law. I always laughed when people told me to be careful. I'm not laughing anymore.

    In case I disappear, remember this. America is an idea, a dream, and that is all. We have borders and armies and citizens and commerce and industry, but all this merely makes us like every other nation on this Earth. What separates us is the idea, the simple idea, that life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are our organizing principles. We can think as we please, speak as we please, write as we please, worship as we please, go where we please. We are protected from the kinds of tyranny that inspired our creation as a nation in the first place.

    That was the idea. That was the dream. It may all be over now, but once upon a time, it existed. No good idea ever truly dies. The dream was here, and so was I, and so were you.
    i'm more a fan of popular bands.. like the bee-gees, pearl jam
  • brain of cbrain of c Posts: 5,213
    go bills.
  • JeanwahJeanwah Posts: 6,363
    Something tells me that this bill won't go very long without opposition, or at least, I'm hoping. There's got to be a point that we start fighting back, ALL of us. If we believe in our dream of America, then we won't take this laying down. We must unite as a country, because if we keep going the direction we are, as divided as we are, this will be a serious turn for the worse, if it really is as bad as it's being portrayed.
  • robbierobbie Posts: 883
    Jeanwah wrote:
    Something tells me that this bill won't go very long without opposition, or at least, I'm hoping. There's got to be a point that we start fighting back, ALL of us. If we believe in our dream of America, then we won't take this laying down. We must unite as a country, because if we keep going the direction we are, as divided as we are, this will be a serious turn for the worse, if it really is as bad as it's being portrayed.



    nobody will do anything about it because either they dont care, or they are too afraid they are willing to give up ANY liberty. there people right here on this board that will call you weak on terror for even mentioning opposition to this. the republican party openly states that if you oppose this you are morally confused. damn shame, but liberty, freedom, bravery.......those concepts are so pre-9/11.
  • JeanwahJeanwah Posts: 6,363
    robbie wrote:
    there people right here on this board that will call you weak on terror for even mentioning opposition to this. the republican party openly states that if you oppose this you are morally confused. damn shame, but liberty, freedom, bravery.......those concepts are so pre-9/11.
    Let's hope that many people on this board think for themselves and not what the Republicans are telling them to think. 9/11 doesn't excuse an "all or nothing" mentality towards Anything, including terrorism. That's where Bush took his meek followers and made a run for more control.
  • robbie wrote:
    nobody will do anything about it because either they dont care, or they are too afraid they are willing to give up ANY liberty. there people right here on this board that will call you weak on terror for even mentioning opposition to this. the republican party openly states that if you oppose this you are morally confused. damn shame, but liberty, freedom, bravery.......those concepts are so pre-9/11.
    You can do something. "The World Can't Wait" is organizing nationwide protests all around the country for us to show our displeasure with all that's going on.

    Here's a list with information on a protest in your area.
    http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2418&_event=14
    Jimmy Carter has disco fever.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    DPrival78 wrote:
    i don't know.. it might not be so bad living in a fascist dictatorship..


    I knew it.
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