Should we start regulating the Oil Industry?

Dustin51Dustin51 Posts: 222
edited March 2007 in A Moving Train
With most of living pay check to pay check as it is and gasoline prices going through the roof should the government step in?

The example I'll use is the electric companies. If we had too we would pay much more for electricity. It's something we all need. Realistically we couldn’t live without it so why don’t we get gauged for it? Because of government regulations. Is it time we started viewing the Oil industry the same way.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
Be excellent to each other
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
    Well I think from their view point, oil is not gonna be around for ever so they better make all the money they can now and in the next 40? years. Too much money to make from oil.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    I think we should regulate the regulators, and then re-delegate regulation.

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  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    Dustin51 wrote:
    With most of living pay check to pay check as it is and gasoline prices going through the roof should the government step in?

    The example I'll use is the electric companies. If we had too we would pay much more for electricity. It's something we all need. Realistically we couldn’t live without it so why don’t we get gauged for it? Because of government regulations. Is it time we started viewing the Oil industry the same way.

    I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

    I am not so sure you can regulate gas prices, but I'd be happy if they were able to keep the gas from going up 10 to 20 cents a litre within a few days and then when it comes down, it never goes down as fast as it goes up.

    Nothing will ever happen to the oil companies, they are big time lobbyist with deep pockets.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    beemster wrote:
    I am not so sure you can regulate gas prices, but I'd be happy if they were able to keep the gas from going up 10 to 20 cents a litre within a few days and then when it comes down, it never goes down as fast as it goes up.

    Nothing will ever happen to the oil companies, they are big time lobbyist with deep pockets.

    The human soul needs no pockets.

    I hate defeatist attitudes.

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  • normnorm Posts: 31,146
    gue_barium wrote:
    The human soul needs no pockets.

    I hate defeatist attitudes.

    In this case I don't think it's defeatist. When your president comes from the oil industry it's more fait accompli.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    cutback wrote:
    In this case I don't think it's defeatist. When your president comes from the oil industry it's more fait accompli.

    It aint over til its over.

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  • normnorm Posts: 31,146
    gue_barium wrote:
    It aint over til its over.

    Fight the good fight.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    cutback wrote:
    Fight the good fight.

    Now you're talking.

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  • desandrewsdesandrews Posts: 143
    Dustin51 wrote:
    With most of living pay check to pay check as it is and gasoline prices going through the roof should the government step in?

    The example I'll use is the electric companies. If we had too we would pay much more for electricity. It's something we all need. Realistically we couldn’t live without it so why don’t we get gauged for it? Because of government regulations. Is it time we started viewing the Oil industry the same way.

    I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

    In your example, we don't get gauged for electricity because of gov't regulation. That may be true but only because most electrical companies have no competition. They're basically a monopoly, that's the argument for regulation. Oil companies... we have ConocoPhillips, ExxonMobil, Citgo, BP, etc. There's no monopoly, there's free market competition, that dictates prices will be as low as efficiently possible. OPEC may be a different story, but they're not within the US so we can't regulate them anyway. Although prices are going up, profit margins are relatively stable. Hell, Microsoft and Apple have larger margins, I don't think we should start talking about regulating them.

    Also, didn't Jimmy Carter try this in the late 70s and all we got were long lines at the gas station because stores ran out of gas? Oh yeah, we got 55 mph speed limits out of that too.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    desandrews wrote:
    In your example, we don't get gauged for electricity because of gov't regulation. That may be true but only because most electrical companies have no competition. They're basically a monopoly, that's the argument for regulation. Oil companies... we have ConocoPhillips, ExxonMobil, Citgo, BP, etc. There's no monopoly, there's free market competition, that dictates prices will be as low as efficiently possible. OPEC may be a different story, but they're not within the US so we can't regulate them anyway. Although prices are going up, profit margins are relatively stable. Hell, Microsoft and Apple have larger margins, I don't think we should start talking about regulating them.

    Also, didn't Jimmy Carter try this in the late 70s and all we got were long lines at the gas station because stores ran out of gas? Oh yeah, we got 55 mph speed limits out of that too.
    are you guys trying to say 'gouge', like in 'gouge that fuckers eyes out', or 'gauge' as in the 'gauges of sin is death."

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  • desandrewsdesandrews Posts: 143
    gue_barium wrote:
    are you guys trying to say 'gouge', like in 'gouge that fuckers eyes out', or 'gauge' as in the 'gauges of sin is death."

    gouge... as in, he got shot with a 12 gouge shot gun.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    desandrews wrote:
    gouge... as in, he got shot with a 12 gouge shot gun.

    i would have waged a bet in favor of this one.

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  • enharmonicenharmonic Posts: 1,917
    You can't control OPEC. Even trying to do that would be really bad.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    enharmonic wrote:
    You can't control OPEC. Even trying to do that would be really bad.

    Why control OPEC? They are already controlled. It should be an easy game.

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  • OutOfBreathOutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    I thought the oil industry was pretty regulated, seeing the vitalness of the commodity and the big logistics of the whole operation...

    Peace
    Dan
    "YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death

    "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    gue_barium wrote:
    The human soul needs no pockets.

    I hate defeatist attitudes.

    I am not being a defeatist, more like a realist, here in Canada we pay far more for gasoline than those in the States. When it comes to gas in Canada if the government just cut the gas tax we would see savings.

    Put the lobbying by the oil companies aside, with gas so expensive to begin with governments are raking piles of cash just in taxes.

    So maybe we need to regulate the government first, and not just at election time.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • You already regulate the Oil Industry. And your electricity analogy makes little sense in terms of personal use and where it does make sense (distribution), you already largely regulate things.

    So no.

    Regulate your own consumption.
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    I don't think we should regulate the oil industry. In fact I think we pay way to little for gas as it is. If you think that 3 dollars a gallon is bad look at what the Europeans pay. I believe it's something like 6-7 dollars a gallon. Maybe if ouir prices went up to that level people would start being serious about conservation. They might also start pressuring the government and the private sector to invest more in the search for an alternate and renewable source of energy instead of just suckling off of OPECs tit.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    mammasan wrote:
    I don't think we should regulate the oil industry. In fact I think we pay way to little for gas as it is. If you think that 3 dollars a gallon is bad look at what the Europeans pay. I believe it's something like 6-7 dollars a gallon. Maybe if ouir prices went up to that level people would start being serious about conservation. They might also start pressuring the government and the private sector to invest more in the search for an alternate and renewable source of energy instead of just suckling off of OPECs tit.

    i agree; except for the renewable energy bit. we've had that technology yet few are utilizing it. i've been 100% solar for over a year without any problems and without an electric bill. the money has already been invested in alternate energy with great results. getting thick headed people to use it is the problem.
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    i agree; except for the renewable energy bit. we've had that technology yet few are utilizing it. i've been 100% solar for over a year without any problems and without an electric bill. the money has already been invested in alternate energy with great results. getting thick headed people to use it is the problem.

    I think the problem is the cost of reworking your home. Right now oil is cheaper than the cost of purchasing, installing solar panels and any other work that would need to be done to do this. That's why I say if we paid what the Euros do people would be jumping all over each other to do as you did.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    mammasan wrote:
    I think the problem is the cost of reworking your home. Right now oil is cheaper than the cost of purchasing, installing solar panels and any other work that would need to be done to do this. That's why I say if we paid what the Euros do people would be jumping all over each other to do as you did.

    i agree. gas should be $20.00/gal with $12.00/gal being used to clean the enviornment.
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    desandrews wrote:
    In your example, we don't get gauged for electricity because of gov't regulation. That may be true but only because most electrical companies have no competition. They're basically a monopoly, that's the argument for regulation. Oil companies... we have ConocoPhillips, ExxonMobil, Citgo, BP, etc. There's no monopoly, there's free market competition, that dictates prices will be as low as efficiently possible. OPEC may be a different story, but they're not within the US so we can't regulate them anyway. Although prices are going up, profit margins are relatively stable. Hell, Microsoft and Apple have larger margins, I don't think we should start talking about regulating them.

    Also, didn't Jimmy Carter try this in the late 70s and all we got were long lines at the gas station because stores ran out of gas? Oh yeah, we got 55 mph speed limits out of that too.


    i thought nixon made the 55 mph speed limit??

    how are profit margins 'stable' when exxonmobil made the largest profits in corporate history last year??
    standin above the crowd
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    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
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  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    I thought the oil industry was pretty regulated, seeing the vitalness of the commodity and the big logistics of the whole operation...

    Peace
    Dan



    correct, It's actually extremely highly regulated and taxed. Not to mention the dangerousness of the entire operation, the money is huge because the demand is enormous, the profit margins are actually not even that large, people just see the numbers and are taken aback. It's an easy media story that grabs ratings and ad revenue.

    The high prices right now are mostly due to the reduced production of gasoline because the northeastern US is demanding heating oil. Also several large Gulf of Mexico platforms got absolutely hammered in Katrina, and BP's Texas City Refinery is still at about half capacity because of several fatalities shoddy leadership and I believe Rita effected them too.

    The problem is less with oil companies and more with the American publics demand for thier product. We simply consume too much.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    El_Kabong wrote:
    i thought nixon made the 55 mph speed limit??

    how are profit margins 'stable' when exxonmobil made the largest profits in corporate history last year??


    Tremendous difference between profit, and profit margin. The cost of doing business has increased dramatically the cost of storage has increased dramatically they aren't producing as much because of all the problems in the Gulf and the instability in the rest of the world. Their profit margins I believe is around 15 percent but I can't remember where I got that number. Last years price spike was due to limited supply, not greed, to keep demand down they raise the price, and it worked, storage space is still at a premium. As refineries get back on gasoline the price will go down again and stabilise for a short time yet again. If the demand goes down, the price will absolutely go down....kind of like with the music industry.

    I think if I was going to be upset about obscene amounts of money and potential fraud I'd probably look to Wall Street before Exxon.


    http://www.eia.doe.gov/ this site might be interesting for those interested.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • Dustin51Dustin51 Posts: 222
    You already regulate the Oil Industry. And your electricity analogy makes little sense in terms of personal use and where it does make sense (distribution), you already largely regulate things.

    So no.

    Regulate your own consumption.

    The analogy makes sense in the fact that we need gasoline the same way we need electricity.

    "Regulate your own consumption" This is exactly why I used the electricity analogy.

    Lot's of people have moved to bedroom communities in order to give their families a better life and a bigger living space. The house I grew up in was very middle class and both of my parents drove an hour each way to and from work so that me and my siblings could have a little more space and little better life.

    How can you possibly expect people like that to regulate their use? What are supposed to do exactly? Not go to work?

    Saying we need to make gas 20 dollars a gallon as someone else suggested is ridiculous. Every low to middle class family in every bedroom community in America would have to declare bankruptcy.

    I agree that alternative fuels are important and need to be aggressively pursued. I also agree that the environment is a very important issue and we need to aggressively seek out ways to force changes in the behavior of our populous. I disagree that we should destroy the middle class to force these changes.

    I also have serious doubts that the Oil industry is in such dire straights. They’re making huge profits which in of itself is not necessarily a bad thing but taking advantage of a necessity to do it is morally questionable at best.
    Be excellent to each other
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Dustin51 wrote:
    The analogy makes sense in the fact that we need gasoline the same way we need electricity.

    "Regulate your own consumption" This is exactly why I used the electricity analogy.

    Lot's of people have moved to bedroom communities in order to give their families a better life and a bigger living space. The house I grew up in was very middle class and both of my parents drove an hour each way to and from work so that me and my siblings could have a little more space and little better life.

    How can you possibly expect people like that to regulate their use? What are supposed to do exactly? Not go to work?

    Saying we need to make gas 20 dollars a gallon as someone else suggested is ridiculous. Every low to middle class family in every bedroom community in America would have to declare bankruptcy.

    I agree that alternative fuels are important and need to be aggressively pursued. I also agree that the environment is a very important issue and we need to aggressively seek out ways to force changes in the behavior of our populous. I disagree that we should destroy the middle class to force these changes.

    I also have serious doubts that the Oil industry is in such dire straights. They’re making huge profits which in of itself is not necessarily a bad thing but taking advantage of a necessity to do it is morally questionable at best.


    however, what is their incentive to keep searching for new forms of that product or go to extrodinary lengths to get you that product if you force them to limit their earnings not based on the market?

    Essentially companies close, and you get the same service as you do with most other government entities (shitty to awful)

    The Free Market is absolutely the best and most fair way to distribute resources. The problem is when companies try to take advantage of their freedom, collude and change the laws and bend the rules of the free market. (see lobbiests etc.)
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    Pacomc79 wrote:
    however, what is their incentive to keep searching for new forms of that product or go to extrodinary lengths to get you that product if you force them to limit their earnings not based on the market?


    The exact same thing that keeps them from finding a new and improved way to make things run. Their profit! There is no incentive for them to bring anything new to the table until they can control and profit huge off of it. My god, the sun has been around longer than oil and how well do we use that. Oh yeah, anybody can do it. So we won't research it to well (maybe) and we will charge an arm and a leg to use something that is free. Just check out that thread from a week ago about the people using the alternative fuel and having the feds jump all over them. Money, money, money, over humans being human.
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    even flow? wrote:
    The exact same thing that keeps them from finding a new and improved way to make things run. Their profit! There is no incentive for them to bring anything new to the table until they can control and profit huge off of it. My god, the sun has been around longer than oil and how well do we use that. Oh yeah, anybody can do it. So we won't research it to well (maybe) and we will charge an arm and a leg to use something that is free. Just check out that thread from a week ago about the people using the alternative fuel and having the feds jump all over them. Money, money, money, over humans being human.

    yeah, absolutely true. People making steady income absolutely deplore change.

    It's one reason I find these energy hearings with automakers hilarious....

    Big guys from detroit talk about efficiency killing their profits, meanwhile Toyota is right there going....uh? Are you mental? We are kicking ass? (and selling technology to Chevy and Ford all the while)

    It's a very complicated hullabaloo without one simple solution.

    One thing for sure is that the US Oil Companies, Automakers and the government have absolutely not done anything close to the work they should have been doing on alternative fuels. The money was good so they got slack on thier research. (same thing happened to Delta between the 80's and now) When leadership lacks vision, we've got problems.

    Everybody should be on the conservation band wagon. I so hope solar collectors can get more cost effective and efficient in the comming years. Ok, so can we ask people do go cold turkey....no. But come on, turn your freaking lights out, turn your AC up and your heat down, buy some freaking caulk, walk to the pool, walk to your friends, house, ride a bike to the store.... buy CFL's, use free solar energy to heat your water...we haven't even approached conservation and recycling like we should in this country and our public transportation is largely untapped in many areas.

    Conservation is balls easy, for whatever reason my country is slow to catch on.

    That and if someone finds a way to run on french fry oil...that's just damn cool ok. It's almost ironic. How could literally running on fat be unamerican?
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    desandrews wrote:
    Also, didn't Jimmy Carter try this in the late 70s and all we got were long lines at the gas station because stores ran out of gas? Oh yeah, we got 55 mph speed limits out of that too.
    El_Kabong wrote:
    i thought nixon made the 55 mph speed limit??

    i would be correct, it was Nixon, not Carter that made the 55 mph speed limit

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Maximum_Speed_Law

    1974 — 55 mph National Speed Limit
    As an emergency response to the 1973 oil crisis, the U.S. Congress and President Nixon imposed a nationwide 55 mph (88 km/h) speed limit in 1974 by requiring the limit as a condition of each state receiving highway funds, a use of the Commerce Clause of the United States Constitution[3].
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
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