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Propaganda from the New York Times

fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
edited August 2008 in A Moving Train
As'ad AbuKhalil, a political science professor in the United States writes:

When the New York Times eulogizes the Mahmud Darwish. I have been waiting for this. An ignorant obituary of Mahmud Darwish in the New York Times. Ethan Bronner, who knows no Arabic, writes about the poetics of Mahmud Darwish. I should start writing about Russian poetics, not knowing any Russian. He says: "Mr. Darwish had the straight hair, wire-rim glasses and blue blazer of a European intellectual." Oh, yes. Arab intellectuals would never wear wire-rim glasses or a blue blazer, especially a blue blazer. As is known, blue blazers are as offensive in Arab cultures as tossing shoes in people's faces. He then says: "And while he wrote in classical Arabic rather than in the language of the street." Can you ask Mr. Bronner what "the language of the street" is? Is that the language of tossing shoes? Then Bronner (or some Israeli military brochure) said: "During the war that led to Israel’s independence, Mr. Darwish and his family, from the Palestinian village of Al Barweh, left for Lebanon. The village was razed but the family sneaked back across the border into Israel, where Mr. Darwish spent his youth." First, notice that Mr. Darwish "left" for Lebanon. He must have went for a picnic with his family. Secondly, notice that "the village was razed" but we don't know by who. Who are the unknown criminals who razed the village? I am sure an investigation is undergoing to find out. And then this: "Politically active fairly early, he was arrested several times and was a member of the Israeli Communist Party." He was arrested for his poetry although Bronner makes sound as if he was arrested because he was active in some communist cell with Carlos the Jackal. Bronner also said: "But he quit in the early 1990s over differences with the leadership" but he does not say that he left to protest Oslo accords.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • KannKann Posts: 1,146
    He should have focused on the political part which actually makes good points, the first parts with the classical arabic and his appearance is bad faithed and quite ridiculous.
  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    Kann wrote:
    He should have focused on the political part which actually makes good points, the first parts with the classical arabic and his appearance is bad faithed and quite ridiculous.
    who are you referring to when you say "he"?
  • KannKann Posts: 1,146
    Weren't you quoting As'ad AbuKhalil, the "political science professor in the United States"? Or I didn't understand anything once again?
  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    Kann wrote:
    Weren't you quoting As'ad AbuKhalil, the "political science professor in the United States"? Or I didn't understand anything once again?
    yes, I was, but you may have been referring to the NY Times journalist as well.

    to respond to your comments referring As'ad:
    Kann wrote:
    He should have focused on the political part which actually makes good points, the first parts with the classical arabic and his appearance is bad faithed and quite ridiculous.
    The journalist clearly did not know what he was talking about. This was in terms of propaganda. To say things like some dressed like a "European intellectual" just further vilifies Arabs... the other comments are just as important, such as leaving out information in regards to Israel, and stuff.
  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    This is how you write a real obituary:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/aug/11/poetry.israelandthepalestinians

    I'm sure you can note the differences in wording... It really does make a difference.
  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    Ethan Bronner, deputy foreign editor of the New York Times, responded to As'ad's critique of his obituary of Mahmud Darwish:

    "Dear Mr. AbuKhalil,
    Several people sent me your irritated comments on my Darwish obit. I understand that attacking The Times and by extension what I write is part of the point of your blog. And not all your objections struck me as wrong. But you were awfully harsh. And just so you know for your future attacks, it is not true that I know no Arabic. My Arabic is far from deep or brilliant but I did study it for several years first under Moin Halloun in Jerusalem (vernacular) and then under Nader Uthman in NY (standard). As deputy foreign editor of The Times, I created an Arabic class under Nader at the paper that is still going on. I also pushed very hard for the paper to recruit Arabic speakers and train correspondents assigned to this region in Arabic. In the years that I was pushing for it (and I was hardly solely responsible for it but I definitely played a role), the paper hired Hassan Fattah, Jad Mouawad and Kareem Fahim. In addition, due partly to my pushing, Robert Worth, who has been our Beirut correspondent since the winter, took a year off to study Arabic full time at the paper’s expense. It was the first time in the paper’s history that it did this with Arabic (historically, it has only done that with Russian and Chinese). This occurred at a time, of course, when there has been a great effort to spare expenses.

    As to the specifics of your complaints: what is with the shoes in the face? I feel fine with saying that Darwish looked and dressed European. Your finding it offensive seems to me overly sensitive. I would agree that saying Darwish “left” Palestine doesn’t portray the situation in 1948. But I can’t believe anyone has any doubts about who razed his village and that struck me as a fairly weird reason to complain. The language of the street is the language I hear every day in Palestine and it differs markedly from the language Darwish employed in his poetry. Why did that distinction offend you? Was it the word street? In reporting the obit, I spoke with several Arabic scholars about his poetic language as well as with two of the three Palestinians who work for The Times here – Khaled Abu Akr and Taghreed el-Khodary. Both love his work. So I tried hard to get a sense of his poetics from those who care deeply about it. Finally, I agree that I should have noted that Darwish broke with Arafat over Oslo. I was already beyond our agreed length for the story and I worried that I would have to explain Oslo and his objections. But also, I had gained the sense that his disillusionment with Arafat and politics were much deeper than just Oslo, which was the last straw.

    Ethan Bronner"
  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    "I read your message with interest. You are right: I am highly critical of the Times and find its coverage of the Middle East consistently lacking, politically biased, and often factually incorrect. The obituary is one element in a larger problem, and I did find that it did not do justice to the place of poetry (in general) and to the place of Darwish in Arab popular and elite culture. But the celebration of Darwish in the Arab world, as one Arab eulogist pointed out, was--and is--a celebration of Palestine first and foremost, and that was missing from your obituary. Now on Arabic: Mr. Bronner: you really don't know Arabic, in that you can't read Darwish's poetry, and my sources tell me that you can't read newspapers and that you don't conduct interviews in Arabic. Studying Arabic is one thing: knowing Arabic is another. Over the years, I have studied Persian, German, and Hebrew but they are not on the same level of my knowledge of Arabic, English and French. I am sure that you know what I mean here. I wish Robert Worth the best in his language endeavor but let me break it to you: he will not know Arabic after one year of study. You may talk to the instructors at the Defense Language Institute in Monterey about that.

    As for what you wrote on his appearance: yes, that was the most bizarre part. I don't know why it struck you that he dressed like that: have you met Arab intellectuals in Tunisia, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Jordan? They all dress in blazers and many wear fashionable glasses too. Did you expect an Arab intellectual to don a turban? Darwish's appearance is not odd by Arab standards at all. I don't know one Arab intellectual who dresses in garb: and Gulf intellectuals also dress like him when they are outside of their countries. On shoes: it is an inside joke that I have with my readers. I have noted that foreign US correspondents are at pains to draw sharp distinctions between Arab culture and other world cultures, and many of them seem to relish mentioning that throwing shoes at people is "considered offensive in Arab culture" as if it is not in other cultures. The exaggeration of the distinctions of Arab culture seems to characterize Western media coverage of the region. Yes, the word street is particularly irksome to me: because instead of public opinion people in the West still prefer to refer to "the Arab street" in order to underline some atavistic motives to the people. Also, the street Arabic (language wise) is higly appreciative of Darwish's poetry: he was, and is, understood by an average person on any street, hence his wide popularity."
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    edited December 2016
    With pedophilia accusations surrounding James Alefantis’ Comet Pizza — and subsequently Pizzagate — it begs the question as to why a seemingly innocuous story about the Norwegian pedophile network was pulled from the internet by more than one major news outlet at around the same time. And why legacy news organizations like the New York Times are working furiously to cast doubt on any mention of pedophile rings involving high-level officials.

    Good question? I think it has to do with server space, it's not like everything can fit on the inter-webs

    https://www.google.com/amp/www.inquisitr.com/3788765/why-did-the-new-york-times-delete-a-story-about-norwegian-pedophile-network-opinion/amp/
    Post edited by JC29856 on
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,352
    JC29856 said:

    With pedophilia accusations surrounding James Alefantis’ Comet Pizza — and subsequently Pizzagate — it begs the question as to why a seemingly innocuous story about the Norwegian pedophile network was pulled from the internet by more than one major news outlet at around the same time. And why legacy news organizations like the New York Times are working furiously to cast doubt on any mention of pedophile rings involving high-level officials.

    Good question? I think it has to do with server space, it's not like everything can fit on the inter-webs

    https://www.google.com/amp/www.inquisitr.com/3788765/why-did-the-new-york-times-delete-a-story-about-norwegian-pedophile-network-opinion/amp/

    Slickity schlock!!
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  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    irony:

    Mind controlled by socialist propaganda about the next bogeyman socialist communist Russia Russia Russian Federation
  • DegeneratefkDegeneratefk Posts: 3,123
    Wow, that's quite the stretch
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,352
    JC29856 said:

    irony:

    Mind controlled by socialist propaganda about the next bogeyman socialist communist Russia Russia Russian Federation

    Slickerity!!
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,352
    Why did Donald Trump grab women by the p**sy?
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  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    Halifax2TheMax said:

    Why did Donald Trump grab women by the p**sy?

    To get to the other side
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,352
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    Halifax2TheMax said:

    Why did Donald Trump grab women by the p**sy?

    To get to the other side
    Bahahahahahaha!!!
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  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Slim
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,845
    Kind of sad, how some people apparently have so much time on their hands to dream this sort of stuff up.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    oftenreading said:

    Kind of sad, how some people apparently have so much time on their hands to dream this sort of stuff up.

    Slim's growing fortune has been a subject of controversy, because it has been amassed in a developing country where average per capita income does not surpass US$14,500 a year, and nearly 17% of the population lives in poverty.[93] Critics claim that Slim is a monopolist, pointing to Telmex's control of 90% of the Mexican landline telephone market. Slim's wealth is the equivalent of roughly 5% of Mexico's annual economic output.[94] Telmex, of which 49.1% is owned by Slim and his family, charges among the highest usage fees in the world, according to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development.[95] The average Mexican spends 1.50 pesos per day on Slim's goods and services for a total of roughly US$140 million a day and the Federal Telecommunications Institute, a new Mexican government anti-monopoly watchdog said in April 2014 that Slim's telecom businesses are monopolies.[6] Slim's business presence in Mexico alone is so broad that many Mexicans find it appropriate to call the country "Slimlandia" as it is almost impossible to go a day in Mexico without contributing to Slim's wealth.[8]
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,845
    JC29856 said:

    oftenreading said:

    Kind of sad, how some people apparently have so much time on their hands to dream this sort of stuff up.

    Slim's growing fortune has been a subject of controversy, because it has been amassed in a developing country where average per capita income does not surpass US$14,500 a year, and nearly 17% of the population lives in poverty.[93] Critics claim that Slim is a monopolist, pointing to Telmex's control of 90% of the Mexican landline telephone market. Slim's wealth is the equivalent of roughly 5% of Mexico's annual economic output.[94] Telmex, of which 49.1% is owned by Slim and his family, charges among the highest usage fees in the world, according to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development.[95] The average Mexican spends 1.50 pesos per day on Slim's goods and services for a total of roughly US$140 million a day and the Federal Telecommunications Institute, a new Mexican government anti-monopoly watchdog said in April 2014 that Slim's telecom businesses are monopolies.[6] Slim's business presence in Mexico alone is so broad that many Mexicans find it appropriate to call the country "Slimlandia" as it is almost impossible to go a day in Mexico without contributing to Slim's wealth.[8]
    Wow, that's me told, then. Another cogent riposte.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,352
    Well, they're poverty percentage is better than the US and pretty soon, it'll be much, much, muchly better.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    JC29856 said:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Slim

    what does he have to do with your story?
  • Hi!Hi! Posts: 3,095
    https://apple.news/AN00CVS_RSyCQnucqcEkeTQ

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  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,297
    What the fuck ever happened to fuck?  I always that was a fucking great user name- fuck.  Pretty fucking smart dude, too.
    "Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!"
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  • Hi!Hi! Posts: 3,095
    brianlux said:
    What the fuck ever happened to fuck?  I always that was a fucking great user name- fuck.  Pretty fucking smart dude, too.
    I guess he decided to fuck off.

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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 39,283
    Hi! said:
    brianlux said:
    What the fuck ever happened to fuck?  I always that was a fucking great user name- fuck.  Pretty fucking smart dude, too.
    I guess he decided to fuck off.
    profile says he was last on the site in Jan
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

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    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Hi!Hi! Posts: 3,095
    mickeyrat said:
    Hi! said:
    brianlux said:
    What the fuck ever happened to fuck?  I always that was a fucking great user name- fuck.  Pretty fucking smart dude, too.
    I guess he decided to fuck off.
    profile says he was last on the site in Jan
    Fucking cool 😎 

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  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 29,919
    Was he a believer of pizzagate ? 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Hi!Hi! Posts: 3,095
    josevolution said:
    Was he a believer of pizzagate ? 
    I fucking hope not. I think someone else started that fuckery.

    Detroit 2000, Detroit 2003 1-2, Grand Rapids VFC 2004, Philly 2005, Grand Rapids 2006, Detroit 2006, Cleveland 2006, Lollapalooza 2007, Detroit Eddie Solo 2011, Detroit 2014, Chicago 2016 1-2, Chicago 2018 1-2, Ohana Encore 2021 1-2, Chicago Eddie/Earthlings 2022 1-2, Nashville 2022, St. Louis 2022

  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,491
    Hi! said:
    josevolution said:
    Was he a believer of pizzagate ? 
    I fucking hope not. I think someone else started that fuckery.
    It was Phineas, he started that fuckery.

    There is Tom Foolery and then there's Phineas Fuckery...
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 20,656
    josevolution said:
    Was he a believer of pizzagate ? 
    no...he wasn't that stupid
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
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