When is Obama going to implement his alternate energy plan?
RolandTD20Kdrummer
Posts: 13,066
...to any significant degree so as to become self sufficient with it?
because you know that is how long it's going to take to see any kind of change with regards to fighting terrorism and foreign policy.
Even then...to lose control of global oil resources is to lose control and become subservient period.
I hope people actually realize this...
because you know that is how long it's going to take to see any kind of change with regards to fighting terrorism and foreign policy.
Even then...to lose control of global oil resources is to lose control and become subservient period.
I hope people actually realize this...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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Post edited by Unknown User on
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In his speech he said 10 years...it's a lofty goal, but possible should the American people commit themselves to it. We went to the moon in eight years, and getting us off of oil will probably be even more difficult, so we need a President who can rally the nation to a singular effort such as this one.
We're going to have to do this sooner or later, and right now we have no leverage against states such as Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc. I think it's better to do it now, especially considering that if we 'drill here, drill now' as Republicans keep going on about, according to most experts it is unlikely there would be any change in oil prices due to that drilling for four years at least.
What the fuck are you talking about?
We already have no control over global oil resources and are totally dependent on brutal regimes in the Middle East and the whims of OPEC.
All getting energy dependent will do (and it will take a couple decades) is not be tied to these regimes and not have incentive to waste our military in these countries.
2006: Camden I & II, DC
2008: DC, Ed DC II
Exactly. Nineteen of the twenty 9/11 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia, as did bin Laden himself. There are obviously issues there but as of right now our hands are tired, and that's not going to change unless we wean ourselves off of that.
No control at all you say?
So then you understand it may actually be 10 - 20+ years before seeing any kind of this "change" that Obama is talking about...in other words long after his term(s) are over.
I see a lot of people getting way too excited over lofty promises and not really understanding what the forecast is actually going to look like.
I guess it's fun to pretend for now.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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You're talking like things are going well as is right now.
Gas prices are higher than ever, and we can't commit significantly to engaging in aggressive diplomacy with some of the most powerful (and radical) countries in the Middle East because they hold the most significant card in the deck. Not to mention the irreputable harm we are causing the environment. What more impetus to change things do you need?
It's not pretend, it's as start. No one thinks this is some panacea that will solve things over night.
It will start right away with more work on wind and solar power, more money put into advancing plug in hybrids, hydrogen and other alternative fuels and so forth. And yes, probably some domestic drilling and tapping our reserves to lessen our need for foreign oil while progress is being made on the alternative fuel/energy front. Obama will get things going in the right direction.
Obama acknowledges it will be hard. But at least he's willing to fucking try, unlike McCain.
Obama needs to win, do a bang up job for 8 years and have the stage set for a like minded democrat to take over for him and/or to have things so far along that even a republican will have no choice but to continue the progress in 2017.
2006: Camden I & II, DC
2008: DC, Ed DC II
The impetus is there and raging. I still maintain all middle east intervention is over oil with a dash of religious mad hattery.
I just see a lot of people getting over excited about something that's not going to change at all for probably at least a decade.
A lot of things can happen in that time. Energy independence is not going to be one of them.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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No one thinks it will be fast or easy. Your throwing up a straw man.
2006: Camden I & II, DC
2008: DC, Ed DC II
Admin
Social awareness does not equal political activism!
5/23/2011- An utter embarrassment... ticketing failures too many to list.
Well, if you never begin you're never going to get there. In addition to wanting a change in our environmental policy, I'm very sick of religious extremists in power holding this nation by the balls.
So where is the money coming from? Do you think he's actually going to disassemble the MIC?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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( o.O)
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next tuesday...
after apac tells him it's ok...
From his speech:
From other things he's said in the past, increasing taxes for the highest brackets, windfall profits taxes on oil companies, giving tax breaks to companies who work on alternative fuel to spur development etc. etc.
He has very well thought out plans, and as he said, has it budgeted very well. People, especially conservatives and the wealthy, may not like them, but he's shown how he'll pay for his plans.
So please, go read his stances before you go spouting off a bunch of rhetoric. The only worthwhile opinion is an informed opinion.
The government has to play a role in making this happen. Encouraging R&D in development of alternative power now ratehr than later so prices can begin falling. Offering financial incentive to people for buying plug in hybrids when they are out to offset the price over regular cars. Same with other fueled cars when those come out.
Again, it won't happen over night, this will be a long, slow battle over the coming decades. But it is the most important issue facing America and the world IMO, and we need to start the ball rolling as soon as possible.
Change will be hard and take a long time, but it will take even longer if we put off the start by electing John McCain.
2006: Camden I & II, DC
2008: DC, Ed DC II
It might look good on paper, but I'm holding my reservations on how this is really all going to work. I think it would be wise if everyone was skeptical of this scenario as well.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
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Some of those 'bridges to nowhere' that Obama will be considering eliminating will likely be obsolete Pentagon projects. Obama seems very concerned with the same thing I'm most concerned about; terrorists acquiring nuclear and biological weapons on the black market. I'm hoping he pumps more money into intelligence related to that and takes some away from bullshit Pentagon projects that became obsolete decades ago.
There are several here that continuously speak of change yet set back and say it's not going to happen so they can masturbate all over the rebutals that follow.
That will free up a fuck ton of money as well. But again, that will take time and won't happen day one of his administration.
And again, I think we are all skeptical, especially of his 10 year time frame. But we're just fucking happy to see stuff moving in the right direction.
I'd rather have an overly optimistic president pushing a lot of change and achieving some of it, than a relic of the past not even trying.
2006: Camden I & II, DC
2008: DC, Ed DC II
Rule #1 in politics: Assume everything you are told is a lie until proven otherwise.
In light of present circumstances...I can't see how anyone can be faulted for thinking this way other than "you called my dog ugly, so I now hate you and will never listen to anything you have to say until you die...and I will try to convince others to do the same"
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
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That's a rigid rule for pessimistic losers.
Everyone should be cautious and skeptical, but cautious optimism is the way to change.
Your rule would let no one get behind new ideas, but rather just sit on the sidelines and watch them fail without helping themselves and then call it a failure and a bunch of lies when all is said in done.
As Obama said in his speech:
We need a leader like Obama to inspire people and get people to make changes in their own lives for the common good.
And that won't happen with a shitty stance of treating everything as a lie until proven otherwise. People need to be optimistic and accept that it will take hard work and sacrifices from them and everyone else to bring about real change in energy use and dependency.
2006: Camden I & II, DC
2008: DC, Ed DC II
I'm going to vehemently disagree on not holding politicians to a higher level of scrutiny by not immediately taking what they have to say at face value. I think that's how the US got into the mess it's in in the first place.
A president should not be a rock star, but so many Obama followers are so star struck.
Do some people not get how democracy works? It's expected Obama will do all these things...why be so thoroughly enamored by it?
To me it's just common sense that the existing plan is a total failure to humanity, and change is inevitable. The alternative is global destruction and mass murder....no brainer really.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Here's the first point on his web page:
Enact a Windfall Profits Tax to Provide a $1,000 Emergency Energy Rebate to American Families.
Obama will enact a windfall profits tax on excessive oil company profits to give American families an immediate $1,000 emergency energy rebate to help families pay rising bills. This relief would be a down payment on Obama’s long-term plan to provide middle-class families with at least $1,000 per year in permanent tax relief.
Now the rebate of this year of $600 for individuals and $1,200 for couples cost the government about $160 billion.
The Big Five Oil Companies' profits in 2007 were about $124 billion. So where will the shortfall be made up from? And also, ill these companies continue to run with no profits?
And if Obama does get us off fossil fuel how will the $1,000 a year permanent tax relief be paid for because obviously if we get off oil then oil companies won't profit as much.
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
- 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
Learn to read.
I said cautiously optimistic and that we should be skeptical. That's not taking what they say at face value.
It's just giving them a chance and being willing to get behind them and help them achieve their goals.
Rather than taking what they say as an outright lie unless they prove otherwise. Nothing will every happen with that kind of pessimistic, bullshit outlook on the world.
People aren't star struck, not most of them anyway. People are just inspired and happy to see a new message in politics. Particularly democrats who had to suffer through the awful Gore and Kerry campaigns and the resulting 8 years of Bush-Cheney.
I'm skeptical Obama will accomplish even the majority of his goals, but at least he's trying and I agree with the majority of his goals. He's not some god who's going to fix things over night, or even in 4-8 years. But he is a big step in the right direction IMO, and I'm happy to support him and to have made the first political campaign donations of my life.
We've had 8 years of an administration that's done the exact opposite of what needed to be done, what was common sense, on nearly every issue.
So we do know how democracy works. We've seen first hand what damage can be done if the wrong people get in power, and if younger folks (I'm 30) don't put enough interest and effort into the system.
Change may be inevitable, but the Bush administration did a damn fine job of denying that it was and doing everything they could to make things worse.
McCain will continue this course of inaction and misguided policy, so damn right I'm throwing myself behind Obama who will at least take some steps in the right direction. There's a great deal of question about how much he can achieve, but at least he's trying and there's little doubt that he'll make some progress if elected.
That's a much better option than no progress.
2006: Camden I & II, DC
2008: DC, Ed DC II
There's already a post by me with quotes from his speech last night and mention of other parts of his plans to PAY FOR ALL HIS POLICY GOALS.
2006: Camden I & II, DC
2008: DC, Ed DC II
I'm going right off his web page platform. Shouldn't he update his platform then?
The website specifically says he's enacting a windfall profits tax to pay for this. I mean it is the first one.
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
- 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
Fair point.
But of course, the bigger point is whether he can pay for everything overall--i.e. that all his tax cut rollbacks for the wealthy, closing loopholes for corporations, trimming fat out of the federal budget etc. etc. pay for all his new plans.
I wouldn't take his issues page on his web as a line for line budget with an exact explanation of completely how he plans to pay for each policy. That would be far to complicated to list out on a campaign website.
In this case, I'd just take the windfall profits tax as the main source of funds for the tax rebate. Not as the sole method it will be paid for. It's just listed for campaign purposes to say "hey I'm going to stick to the oil companies and give back to the people."
2006: Camden I & II, DC
2008: DC, Ed DC II
Let me understand this Obama is a man from Chicago, who puts the ultimate DC insider on his Ticket, as Biden has been there since 1972. McCain has been a Maverick most of his long career and he picks the ultimate DC outsider in Palin who herself has fought special interest and been a Maverick herself. Yes you are right Obama really gives us change we can believe in.
His energy policy states no specifics other than throwing 150Bl at the problem. Where is that money going to come from? You democrats get so caught up in the tax the rich talking points that you fail to see that it makes no logical sense. THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH RICH IN THIS COUNTRY TO PAY FOR WHAT OBAMA WANTS TO DO. WHile he is implementing all of his new programs he is also going to give a tax break to 95% of taxpayers. I guess it is ok because he gives a really good speech and makes people feel good about themselves.