When is Obama going to implement his alternate energy plan?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

...to any significant degree so as to become self sufficient with it?

because you know that is how long it's going to take to see any kind of change with regards to fighting terrorism and foreign policy.

Even then...to lose control of global oil resources is to lose control and become subservient period.

I hope people actually realize this...

digster

Presumably it'll begin when he becomes elected.

In his speech he said 10 years...it's a lofty goal, but possible should the American people commit themselves to it. We went to the moon in eight years, and getting us off of oil will probably be even more difficult, so we need a President who can rally the nation to a singular effort such as this one.

We're going to have to do this sooner or later, and right now we have no leverage against states such as Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc. I think it's better to do it now, especially considering that if we 'drill here, drill now' as Republicans keep going on about, according to most experts it is unlikely there would be any change in oil prices due to that drilling for four years at least.

jhinkle1114

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Even then...to lose control of global oil resources is to lose control and become subservient period.

What the fuck are you talking about?

We already have no control over global oil resources and are totally dependent on brutal regimes in the Middle East and the whims of OPEC.

All getting energy dependent will do (and it will take a couple decades) is not be tied to these regimes and not have incentive to waste our military in these countries.

digster

jhinkle1114 wrote:

What the fuck are you talking about?

We already have no control over global oil resources and are totally dependent on brutal regimes in the Middle East and the whims of OPEC.

All getting energy dependent will do (and it will take a couple decades) is not be tied to these regimes and not have incentive to waste our military in these countries.

Exactly. Nineteen of the twenty 9/11 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia, as did bin Laden himself. There are obviously issues there but as of right now our hands are tired, and that's not going to change unless we wean ourselves off of that.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

jhinkle1114 wrote:

What the fuck are you talking about?

We already have no control over global oil resources and are totally dependent on brutal regimes in the Middle East and the whims of OPEC.

All getting energy dependent will do (and it will take a couple decades) is not be tied to these regimes and not have incentive to waste our military in these countries.

No control at all you say?

So then you understand it may actually be 10 - 20+ years before seeing any kind of this "change" that Obama is talking about...in other words long after his term(s) are over.

I see a lot of people getting way too excited over lofty promises and not really understanding what the forecast is actually going to look like.

I guess it's fun to pretend for now.

digster

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

No control at all you say?

So then you understand it may actually be 10 - 20+ years before seeing any kind of this "change" that Obama is talking about...in other words long after his term(s) are over.

I see a lot of people getting way too excited over lofty promises and not really understanding what the forecast is actually going to look like.

I guess it's fun to pretend for now.

You're talking like things are going well as is right now.

Gas prices are higher than ever, and we can't commit significantly to engaging in aggressive diplomacy with some of the most powerful (and radical) countries in the Middle East because they hold the most significant card in the deck. Not to mention the irreputable harm we are causing the environment. What more impetus to change things do you need?

jhinkle1114

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

No control at all you say?

So then you understand it may actually be 10 - 20+ years before seeing any kind of this "change" that Obama is talking about...in other words long after his term(s) are over.

I see a lot of people getting way too excited over lofty promises and not really understanding what the forecast is actually going to look like.

I guess it's fun to pretend for now.

It's not pretend, it's as start. No one thinks this is some panacea that will solve things over night.

It will start right away with more work on wind and solar power, more money put into advancing plug in hybrids, hydrogen and other alternative fuels and so forth. And yes, probably some domestic drilling and tapping our reserves to lessen our need for foreign oil while progress is being made on the alternative fuel/energy front. Obama will get things going in the right direction.

Obama acknowledges it will be hard. But at least he's willing to fucking try, unlike McCain.

Obama needs to win, do a bang up job for 8 years and have the stage set for a like minded democrat to take over for him and/or to have things so far along that even a republican will have no choice but to continue the progress in 2017.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

digster wrote:

You're talking like things are going well as is right now.

Gas prices are higher than ever, and we can't commit significantly to engaging in aggressive diplomacy with some of the most powerful (and radical) countries in the Middle East because they hold the most significant card in the deck. Not to mention the irreputable harm we are causing the environment. What more impetus to change things do you need?

The impetus is there and raging. I still maintain all middle east intervention is over oil with a dash of religious mad hattery.

I just see a lot of people getting over excited about something that's not going to change at all for probably at least a decade.

A lot of things can happen in that time. Energy independence is not going to be one of them.

jhinkle1114

As I made clear above, we're excited to see the BEGINNINGS of much needed change.

No one thinks it will be fast or easy. Your throwing up a straw man.

chromiam

when we all make enough money to buy non-gas powered cars.. until then alternative energy is just a feel good story and not a realistic solution.

digster

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

The impetus is there and raging. I still maintain all middle east intervention is over oil with a dash of religious mad hattery.

I just see a lot of people getting over excited about something that's not going to change at all for probably at least a decade.

A lot of things can happen in that time. Energy independence is not going to be one of them.

Well, if you never begin you're never going to get there. In addition to wanting a change in our environmental policy, I'm very sick of religious extremists in power holding this nation by the balls.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

jhinkle1114 wrote:

As I made clear above, we're excited to see the BEGINNINGS of much needed change.

No one thinks it will be fast or easy. Your throwing up a straw man.

So where is the money coming from? Do you think he's actually going to disassemble the MIC?

inmytree

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

...to any significant degree so as to become self sufficient with it?

because you know that is how long it's going to take to see any kind of change with regards to fighting terrorism and foreign policy.

Even then...to lose control of global oil resources is to lose control and become subservient period.

I hope people actually realize this...

next tuesday...

after apac tells him it's ok...

jhinkle1114

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

So where is the money coming from? Do you think he's actually going to disassemble the MIC?

From his speech:

Now, many of these plans will cost money, which is why I've laid out how I'll pay for every dime -- by closing corporate loopholes and tax havens that don't help America grow. But I will also go through the federal budget, line by line, eliminating programs that no longer work and making the ones we do need work better and cost less -- because we cannot meet 21st century challenges with a 20th century bureaucracy.

From other things he's said in the past, increasing taxes for the highest brackets, windfall profits taxes on oil companies, giving tax breaks to companies who work on alternative fuel to spur development etc. etc.

He has very well thought out plans, and as he said, has it budgeted very well. People, especially conservatives and the wealthy, may not like them, but he's shown how he'll pay for his plans.

So please, go read his stances before you go spouting off a bunch of rhetoric. The only worthwhile opinion is an informed opinion.

chromiam wrote:

when we all make enough money to buy non-gas powered cars.. until then alternative energy is just a feel good story and not a realistic solution.

The government has to play a role in making this happen. Encouraging R&D in development of alternative power now ratehr than later so prices can begin falling. Offering financial incentive to people for buying plug in hybrids when they are out to offset the price over regular cars. Same with other fueled cars when those come out.

Again, it won't happen over night, this will be a long, slow battle over the coming decades. But it is the most important issue facing America and the world IMO, and we need to start the ball rolling as soon as possible.

Change will be hard and take a long time, but it will take even longer if we put off the start by electing John McCain.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

I don't think the US can maintain it's military spending budget and come up with a nation wide alternate energy program. I mean...It can't even afford to maintain it's military budget.

It might look good on paper, but I'm holding my reservations on how this is really all going to work. I think it would be wise if everyone was skeptical of this scenario as well.

spyguy

T. Boone Pickens!

digster

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

I don't think the US can maintain it's military spending budget and come up with a nation wide alternate energy program. I mean...It can't even afford to maintain it's military budget.

It might look good on paper, but I'm holding my reservations on how this is really all going to work. I think it would be wise if everyone was skeptical of this scenario as well.

Some of those 'bridges to nowhere' that Obama will be considering eliminating will likely be obsolete Pentagon projects. Obama seems very concerned with the same thing I'm most concerned about; terrorists acquiring nuclear and biological weapons on the black market. I'm hoping he pumps more money into intelligence related to that and takes some away from bullshit Pentagon projects that became obsolete decades ago.

Strangest Tribe

haven't some of you guys figured this forum out yet.

There are several here that continuously speak of change yet set back and say it's not going to happen so they can masturbate all over the rebutals that follow.

jhinkle1114

Yeah, a part I left out was getting out of Iraq and not spending so much money there and staying out of future pointless conflicts and only using the military when absolutely necessary as a last resort.

That will free up a fuck ton of money as well. But again, that will take time and won't happen day one of his administration.

And again, I think we are all skeptical, especially of his 10 year time frame. But we're just fucking happy to see stuff moving in the right direction.

I'd rather have an overly optimistic president pushing a lot of change and achieving some of it, than a relic of the past not even trying.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Strangest Tribe wrote:

haven't some of you guys figured this forum out yet.

There are several here that continuously speak of change yet set back and say it's not going to happen so they can masturbate all over the rebutals that follow.

Rule #1 in politics: Assume everything you are told is a lie until proven otherwise.

In light of present circumstances...I can't see how anyone can be faulted for thinking this way other than "you called my dog ugly, so I now hate you and will never listen to anything you have to say until you die...and I will try to convince others to do the same"

jhinkle1114

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Rule #1 in politics: Assume everything you are told is a lie until proven otherwise.

That's a rigid rule for pessimistic losers.

Everyone should be cautious and skeptical, but cautious optimism is the way to change.

Your rule would let no one get behind new ideas, but rather just sit on the sidelines and watch them fail without helping themselves and then call it a failure and a bunch of lies when all is said in done.

As Obama said in his speech:

Yes, government must lead on energy independence, but each of us must do our part to make our homes and businesses more efficient.

We need a leader like Obama to inspire people and get people to make changes in their own lives for the common good.

And that won't happen with a shitty stance of treating everything as a lie until proven otherwise. People need to be optimistic and accept that it will take hard work and sacrifices from them and everyone else to bring about real change in energy use and dependency.