So i would think if i'm not getting my loans back then i wouldn't keep uping my national debt. But i guess you'd have to have someone smart in the whitehouse to figure that out.
Regardless they don't care because it has to be paid back by the tax payer at some point. The bubble has to burst eventually.
no bubble is bursting. the debt will be paid back, it will just become more expensive for us to borrow
Give me a date. People have been saying this for years.
Without a date you get to say whatever you want, and can't be challenged, other than Jlew or me saying "no it won't". Give me a date so I can tell you you're wrong when it doesn't happen, or you can say "I told you so" if it does (I'll be the one talking, btw).
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Give me a date. People have been saying this for years.
Without a date you get to say whatever you want, and can't be challenged, other than Jlew or me saying "no it won't". Give me a date so I can tell you you're wrong when it doesn't happen, or you can say "I told you so" if it does (I'll be the one talking, btw).
Ok if it makes you happy it won't. Who the hell can predict a date?
Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
Ok if it makes you happy it won't. Who the hell can predict a date?
The people who seem so sure it will happen, of course. There must be some model telling you it will happen. Therefore that model should also be able to accurately predict a date.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Give me a date. People have been saying this for years.
Without a date you get to say whatever you want, and can't be challenged, other than Jlew or me saying "no it won't". Give me a date so I can tell you you're wrong when it doesn't happen, or you can say "I told you so" if it does (I'll be the one talking, btw).
i'll put my balls on the line and say this:
"things will be worse in 5 years time, not better."
"the middle class will be in a world of shit in ten."
how bout that?
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
i'll put my balls on the line and say this:
"things will be worse in 5 years time, not better."
"the middle class will be in a world of shit in ten."
how bout that?
kinda a shitty outlook on life huh? I guess we'll see. 5 years from now I hope to be playing golf in the Arizona mountains and slipping margaritas by the pool. I'd like to be successful enough to maybe work 6 months a year. but thats just me.
Hey, did Iran switch from US currency for oil? Yes they did. Since 2003 they have been shifting assets away from the US dollar. Oh....again...no so good senor.
This is not accurate... they have been making a switch over to Euros. Oil is not a currency it is a commodity, bought and sold with currency. If they decide to make the switch completely, quite frankly we are fucked.
Do you think "The American Dream" -- in all its suburban sprawled, over-consumptive, debt-encumbered, environment-degrading, petro-guzzling glory -- can really continue on ad infinitum in a world where oil production is stalling out for a nose dive and demand is goose-stepping up and off the charts?
The world is in for a brutally rude awakening in the next decade or so. Not only are we not now prepared for any change in the variables, we are utterly averse to such change. In fact the system damn near self-selects for complete opposition and denial of change.
Markets are supposed to be "efficient" ... in trth the only thing they really do efficiently is consume ... thats all they were ever designed to do ... be an indicator of how much i should pay today for something that may be gone tomorrow ...
if we are hoping that the "free market" will somehow "work it out" for us, when our entire economy is set up on a bunch of disturbingly false presumptions about what is "sustainable", then we are in for a wild rollercoaster suicide ride.
growth! growth? growth !?! is growth really 'sustainable' ??!!?? ask yourself ... answer that ... right now ... go ahead ... is growth sustainable? don't cave to the fuzzy math world of "oh ho hum. well you see, human efficiency, er um, uh technology you see, uh erm well as we continue to become more efficiency in the way we organize business and with the help of technology, er growth is like unlimited."
bullshit!
we are teetering beyond the bounds of what the world is capable of. even our rivers are running dry before they hit the ocean as we have taxed our water tables until they run to dust. i don't need to run through all of "the day after tomorrow" or any other doomsday scenarios to point out that even science is telling us "you're fucked!" ...
... you think all that may be enough to get us to bring some economic pragmatism, some fiscal sanity to the fucking table but NO! The world is not concerned with these matters. Humanity has organized itself in to self defeating little self-absorbed huttles of worthlessness. We work against eachother and against the world to the point of working against even ourselves in the end.
right now, all our government can come up with as a solution to the fundamental crisis of our pathetic dependence on oil is to blame arabs, and drop bombs on those unable to defend themselves ... and be fooled not, this is not an "addiction" ... no, that would imply it is some sick habbit that could be kicked ... nope ... this is a terminal illness ... the organism that is our society, the physical body of our country ... this organism has grown physiologicaly dependent on oil for the very sustenance of its being. When we no longer can procure enough of it to maintain, the fabric of life as we know it will cease to exist.
that is reality as i see it, the warning signs are flashing bright enough to blind and have been since before i was born.
the fact that we have still to devise a method to turn the stupefyingly gross momentum of cumulative human action around is, to me, a testiment to the terminal nature of the human condition.
the way i see it is capatalism, by design, can NOT be concerned with such end-game scenarios ... its domain is to keep running, keep "growing" at the expense of everone and everything in order to 'sustain growth' for the pockets of the big boys ... it was a great theory for a world that was growing 'organicaly' (if indeed, if ever was doing so) ... but the world has been growing almost exponentially since the early 1900s ... we have 5 times more people in america as we did in 1900. that growth rate is unequalled in the history man!!! the boom that the industrial revolution begat on humanity has itself doomed humanity. the mindset that sprung this revolution will be its own downfall. such growth is an absolute anomaly and must be followed by a return to normalcy.
Oh. we will see.
Maybe it won't be 5 years exactly.
But at 5 years out, if things don't change dramaticaly with the next administration (which it wont, because politics is now itself incapable of escaping the life-destroying pressure of industry) ... at 5 years out our fate will be all but sealed.
5 years from now I hope to be playing golf in the Arizona mountains and slipping margaritas by the pool. I'd like to be successful enough to maybe work 6 months a year. but thats just me
If your "escape plan" consists of being dependent on someone else paying you to live, i'd think twice about that plan.
The time to seek financial independence is now.
i have my dreams too,
they are just tempered by the dark omens i see everywhere.
sorry for the buzzkill.
i felt like venting.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
This is not accurate... they have been making a switch over to Euros. Oil is not a currency it is a commodity, bought and sold with currency. If they decide to make the switch completely, quite frankly we are fucked.
By gold and silver now... you wont be sorry.
What exactly did I say that isn't accurate? The decision has been made right?
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Do you think "The American Dream" -- in all its suburban sprawled, over-consumptive, debt-encumbered, environment-degrading, petro-guzzling glory -- can really continue on ad infinitum in a world where oil production is stalling out for a nose dive and demand is goose-stepping up and off the charts?
The world is in for a brutally rude awakening in the next decade or so. Not only are we not now prepared for any change in the variables, we are utterly averse to such change. In fact the system damn near self-selects for complete opposition and denial of change.
Markets are supposed to be "efficient" ... in trth the only thing they really do efficiently is consume ... thats all they were ever designed to do ... be an indicator of how much i should pay today for something that may be gone tomorrow ...
if we are hoping that the "free market" will somehow "work it out" for us, when our entire economy is set up on a bunch of disturbingly false presumptions about what is "sustainable", then we are in for a wild rollercoaster suicide ride.
growth! growth? growth !?! is growth really 'sustainable' ??!!?? ask yourself ... answer that ... right now ... go ahead ... is growth sustainable? don't cave to the fuzzy math world of "oh ho hum. well you see, human efficiency, er um, uh technology you see, uh erm well as we continue to become more efficiency in the way we organize business and with the help of technology, er growth is like unlimited."
bullshit!
we are teetering beyond the bounds of what the world is capable of. even our rivers are running dry before they hit the ocean as we have taxed our water tables until they run to dust. i don't need to run through all of "the day after tomorrow" or any other doomsday scenarios to point out that even science is telling us "you're fucked!" ...
... you think all that may be enough to get us to bring some economic pragmatism, some fiscal sanity to the fucking table but NO! The world is not concerned with these matters. Humanity has organized itself in to self defeating little self-absorbed huttles of worthlessness. We work against eachother and against the world to the point of working against even ourselves in the end.
right now, all our government can come up with as a solution to the fundamental crisis of our pathetic dependence on oil is to blame arabs, and drop bombs on those unable to defend themselves ... and be fooled not, this is not an "addiction" ... no, that would imply it is some sick habbit that could be kicked ... nope ... this is a terminal illness ... the organism that is our society, the physical body of our country ... this organism has grown physiologicaly dependent on oil for the very sustenance of its being. When we no longer can procure enough of it to maintain, the fabric of life as we know it will cease to exist.
that is reality as i see it, the warning signs are flashing bright enough to blind and have been since before i was born.
the fact that we have still to devise a method to turn the stupefyingly gross momentum of cumulative human action around is, to me, a testiment to the terminal nature of the human condition.
the way i see it is capatalism, by design, can NOT be concerned with such end-game scenarios ... its domain is to keep running, keep "growing" at the expense of everone and everything in order to 'sustain growth' for the pockets of the big boys ... it was a great theory for a world that was growing 'organicaly' (if indeed, if ever was doing so) ... but the world has been growing almost exponentially since the early 1900s ... we have 5 times more people in america as we did in 1900. that growth rate is unequalled in the history man!!! the boom that the industrial revolution begat on humanity has itself doomed humanity. the mindset that sprung this revolution will be its own downfall. such growth is an absolute anomaly and must be followed by a return to normalcy.
Oh. we will see.
Maybe it won't be 5 years exactly.
But at 5 years out, if things don't change dramaticaly with the next administration (which it wont, because politics is now itself incapable of escaping the life-destroying pressure of industry) ... at 5 years out our fate will be all but sealed.
If your "escape plan" consists of being dependent on someone else paying you to live, i'd think twice about that plan.
The time to seek financial independence is now.
i have my dreams too,
they are just tempered by the dark omens i see everywhere.
sorry for the buzzkill.
i felt like venting.
it won't be arizona. it's time to flee arizona because global warming has caused too much damage. buy gold and look for high ground.
That was actually a pretty good text, I know it's a matter of opinion but I think you summed up the situation pretty well.
As for the seasoned capitalists on this thread, I'd like to hear how a theory that is based on unlimited growth is supposed to work in a world with limited ressources?
of course it will have problems. I didnt say otherwise. as much as you and roland would like to see it completely collapse, it wont. I hate to break that to you. and im not your bud
That's unfair and inaccurate. Your words...your ideas...not mine.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Comments
no bubble is bursting. the debt will be paid back, it will just become more expensive for us to borrow
sure it won't.
sure it will.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Give me a date. People have been saying this for years.
Without a date you get to say whatever you want, and can't be challenged, other than Jlew or me saying "no it won't". Give me a date so I can tell you you're wrong when it doesn't happen, or you can say "I told you so" if it does (I'll be the one talking, btw).
Ok if it makes you happy it won't. Who the hell can predict a date?
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
The people who seem so sure it will happen, of course. There must be some model telling you it will happen. Therefore that model should also be able to accurately predict a date.
i'll put my balls on the line and say this:
"things will be worse in 5 years time, not better."
"the middle class will be in a world of shit in ten."
how bout that?
If I opened it now would you not understand?
kinda a shitty outlook on life huh? I guess we'll see. 5 years from now I hope to be playing golf in the Arizona mountains and slipping margaritas by the pool. I'd like to be successful enough to maybe work 6 months a year. but thats just me.
This is not accurate... they have been making a switch over to Euros. Oil is not a currency it is a commodity, bought and sold with currency. If they decide to make the switch completely, quite frankly we are fucked.
By gold and silver now... you wont be sorry.
Do you think "The American Dream" -- in all its suburban sprawled, over-consumptive, debt-encumbered, environment-degrading, petro-guzzling glory -- can really continue on ad infinitum in a world where oil production is stalling out for a nose dive and demand is goose-stepping up and off the charts?
The world is in for a brutally rude awakening in the next decade or so. Not only are we not now prepared for any change in the variables, we are utterly averse to such change. In fact the system damn near self-selects for complete opposition and denial of change.
Markets are supposed to be "efficient" ... in trth the only thing they really do efficiently is consume ... thats all they were ever designed to do ... be an indicator of how much i should pay today for something that may be gone tomorrow ...
if we are hoping that the "free market" will somehow "work it out" for us, when our entire economy is set up on a bunch of disturbingly false presumptions about what is "sustainable", then we are in for a wild rollercoaster suicide ride.
growth! growth? growth !?! is growth really 'sustainable' ??!!?? ask yourself ... answer that ... right now ... go ahead ... is growth sustainable? don't cave to the fuzzy math world of "oh ho hum. well you see, human efficiency, er um, uh technology you see, uh erm well as we continue to become more efficiency in the way we organize business and with the help of technology, er growth is like unlimited."
bullshit!
we are teetering beyond the bounds of what the world is capable of. even our rivers are running dry before they hit the ocean as we have taxed our water tables until they run to dust. i don't need to run through all of "the day after tomorrow" or any other doomsday scenarios to point out that even science is telling us "you're fucked!" ...
... you think all that may be enough to get us to bring some economic pragmatism, some fiscal sanity to the fucking table but NO! The world is not concerned with these matters. Humanity has organized itself in to self defeating little self-absorbed huttles of worthlessness. We work against eachother and against the world to the point of working against even ourselves in the end.
right now, all our government can come up with as a solution to the fundamental crisis of our pathetic dependence on oil is to blame arabs, and drop bombs on those unable to defend themselves ... and be fooled not, this is not an "addiction" ... no, that would imply it is some sick habbit that could be kicked ... nope ... this is a terminal illness ... the organism that is our society, the physical body of our country ... this organism has grown physiologicaly dependent on oil for the very sustenance of its being. When we no longer can procure enough of it to maintain, the fabric of life as we know it will cease to exist.
that is reality as i see it, the warning signs are flashing bright enough to blind and have been since before i was born.
the fact that we have still to devise a method to turn the stupefyingly gross momentum of cumulative human action around is, to me, a testiment to the terminal nature of the human condition.
the way i see it is capatalism, by design, can NOT be concerned with such end-game scenarios ... its domain is to keep running, keep "growing" at the expense of everone and everything in order to 'sustain growth' for the pockets of the big boys ... it was a great theory for a world that was growing 'organicaly' (if indeed, if ever was doing so) ... but the world has been growing almost exponentially since the early 1900s ... we have 5 times more people in america as we did in 1900. that growth rate is unequalled in the history man!!! the boom that the industrial revolution begat on humanity has itself doomed humanity. the mindset that sprung this revolution will be its own downfall. such growth is an absolute anomaly and must be followed by a return to normalcy.
Oh. we will see.
Maybe it won't be 5 years exactly.
But at 5 years out, if things don't change dramaticaly with the next administration (which it wont, because politics is now itself incapable of escaping the life-destroying pressure of industry) ... at 5 years out our fate will be all but sealed.
If your "escape plan" consists of being dependent on someone else paying you to live, i'd think twice about that plan.
The time to seek financial independence is now.
i have my dreams too,
they are just tempered by the dark omens i see everywhere.
sorry for the buzzkill.
i felt like venting.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
What exactly did I say that isn't accurate? The decision has been made right?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
it won't be arizona. it's time to flee arizona because global warming has caused too much damage. buy gold and look for high ground.
That was actually a pretty good text, I know it's a matter of opinion but I think you summed up the situation pretty well.
As for the seasoned capitalists on this thread, I'd like to hear how a theory that is based on unlimited growth is supposed to work in a world with limited ressources?
That's unfair and inaccurate. Your words...your ideas...not mine.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")