Giuliani flat out lying about 9/11

RolandTD20Kdrummer
RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
edited November 2007 in A Moving Train
A little insight into how well this guy can spin lies and not even flinch.

"A filmmaker who was behind documentaries that bashed Rupert Murdoch and Wal-Mart is now focusing on Rudy Giuliani, creating an "online viral video campaign" about the presidential candidate timed to coincide with the anniversary of the Sept. 11 attack.

Robert Greenwald on Thursday launched the first of four short videos about Sept. 11 and the Republican former mayor. The others are planned to launch throughout the month.

The videos attack Giuliani by saying he failed to prepare New York City for a major disaster, he ignored sick ground zero workers after the terrorist attack and he profited financially from his association with the tragedy after leaving office in 2001.

"We want to use this forum to reach people and show and tell and say, 'Look here are some truths that we want you to know,'" Greenwald told The Associated Press. The video blitz has an accompanying web site, therealrudy.org."

http://www.therealrudy.org/

.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.

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Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Come Back in Black
    Come Back in Black Posts: 659
    ok so you are saying that any other American city would of been better prepared for 9/11 then New York? No one was prepared for that and no one else could of handled it and led people as well as Rudy did. Smear campaign websites are not going to change that.
  • FredFlintstone
    FredFlintstone Posts: 193
    Come Back in Black wrote:
    ok so you are saying that any other American city would of been better prepared for 9/11 then New York? No one was prepared for that and no one else could of handled it and led people as well as Rudy did. Smear campaign websites are not going to change that.


    Once again...a deflection. This isn't an argument about how prepared one city was vis a vis another.
    Its about Rudi Guiliani promoting himself as a hero of 9/11 and a terrorism expert because of his planning and actions in NY, including the day of 9.11.
    He is basing his whole presidential campaign on his "terrorism resume" while accusing his Dem opponents of being weak.
    The statements about this resume that he has been making on the talk show/campaign circuit to promote his candidacy have been debunked by these ppl. It is a serious judgment issue as to why Rudi put the emergency repsonse team in the WTC 7. He is blatantly lying about it here (and gets cauht but continues to lie anyway) because it contradicts the image he is presenting about being the "terrorism guy".

    Why ppl view him as a terrorism expert I'll never understand, but that is beside the point.
    "Sean Hannity knows there is no greater threat to America today than Bill Clinton 15 years ago"- Stephen Colbert
  • blackredyellow
    blackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    Come Back in Black wrote:
    ok so you are saying that any other American city would of been better prepared for 9/11 then New York? No one was prepared for that and no one else could of handled it and led people as well as Rudy did. Smear campaign websites are not going to change that.

    No one else could have handled it as well as Rudy? How can you honestly say that? I actually don't think Rudy did a bad job in immediate days after 9/11, but any mayor could and probably would have done the same thing. What other options were there? go into hiding?

    It's his false claims and lies after the fact that bother me the most about him... and the idea that just being the mayor of NY that day makes him a terrorism expert. If my house was burned down, would that make me an expert on arson?
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • Come Back in Black
    Come Back in Black Posts: 659
    FredFlintstone wrote:
    Once again...a deflection. This isn't an argument about how prepared one city was vis a vis another.
    Its about Rudi Guiliani promoting himself as a hero of 9/11 and a terrorism expert because of his planning and actions in NY, including the day of 9.11.
    He is basing his whole presidential campaign on his "terrorism resume" while accusing his Dem opponents of being weak.
    The statements about this resume that he has been making on the talk show/campaign circuit to promote his candidacy have been debunked by these ppl. It is a serious judgment issue as to why Rudi put the emergency repsonse team in the WTC 7. He is blatantly lying about it here (and gets cauht but continues to lie anyway) because it contradicts the image he is presenting about being the "terrorism guy".

    Why ppl view him as a terrorism expert I'll never understand, but that is beside the point.

    Once again??? You have me confused with someone else I think. At any rate, I didn't deflect anything. I was responding to this portion of the the original post.
    "The videos attack Giuliani by saying he failed to prepare New York City for a major disaster"

    Second guess where the the ERT was all you want. You have the right to criticize him for that. I don't view him as a terrorism expert. I view him as a great leader with some great experience. Terrorism being only part of that experience. NYC was a much better place to be after Rudy was elected. He made some very good changes for the city. Since you don't mind reading biased material, why not go read his book "Leadership" to at least give you some balanced perspective on his views and deads. The 9/11 chapter is the least interesting in my point of view.
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Well he does lie openly in the video...so yeah...he's a liar for one. A very good liar, so he must (obviously) practice a lot.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

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  • Come Back in Black
    Come Back in Black Posts: 659
    Maybe he is lying. But there is no proof of that here. Just one guys word against anothers.
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Come Back in Black wrote:
    Maybe he is lying. But there is no proof of that here. Just one guys word against anothers.

    More than one person suggested the command center not be built in wtc7. It was a flat out insane idea at the time, and this was also popular opinion across the board at the time.

    Giuliani is a fraud. He did nothing but look good on TV on 9/11 and you swallowed it.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Uncle Leo
    Uncle Leo Posts: 1,059
    Come Back in Black wrote:
    Maybe he is lying. But there is no proof of that here. Just one guys word against anothers.

    Nobody needs proof to brand someone a liar. After all, Al Gore did not claim to invent the internet, but most people think he did.
    I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.
  • Come Back in Black
    Come Back in Black Posts: 659
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    More than one person suggested the command center not be built in wtc7. It was a flat out insane idea at the time, and this was also popular opinion across the board at the time.

    Giuliani is a fraud. He did nothing but look good on TV on 9/11 and you swallowed it.


    Sure more then 1 person thought it was a bad idea. But the video on the website has Rudy saying it was the directors idea and the director saying it was all Rudy. You are saying Rudy is lying. There is no proof of that. You can say the command center was in a dumb place and criticize Rudy for that. But to say he is lying and that it was all him requires some proof i would think besides one persons word against the other.

    Your last statement is rediculous. You watch a propaganda video that shows some disgruntled firefighters and there families and now you can say as a fact that "He did nothing but look good on TV on 9/11" Go take a poll of the entire fire department and get back to me.
  • Come Back in Black
    Come Back in Black Posts: 659
    Uncle Leo wrote:
    Nobody needs proof to brand someone a liar. After all, Al Gore did not claim to invent the internet, but most people think he did.

    You can say whatever you want. It is a free country. He can say Rudy is a Liar, I can say he has no proof to state as a fact that he is a liar. You can say "Nobody needs proof to brand someone a liar". That is all great and nice and everything but what is your point exactly?
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    i'm voting for ron paul.... end of story, on my part.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Come Back in Black wrote:
    Sure more then 1 person thought it was a bad idea. But the video on the website has Rudy saying it was the directors idea and the director saying it was all Rudy. You are saying Rudy is lying. There is no proof of that. You can say the command center was in a dumb place and criticize Rudy for that. But to say he is lying and that it was all him requires some proof i would think besides one persons word against the other.

    Your last statement is rediculous. You watch a propaganda video that shows some disgruntled firefighters and there families and now you can say as a fact that "He did nothing but look good on TV on 9/11" Go take a poll of the entire fire department and get back to me.

    Again there was no "virtual command center" that is blatant lying and a fact that has somehow eluded you. Did you even watch the video and comprehend what was going on?

    Do you also know how many firefighters lost their lives because of Rudy's command center decisions? Tell me what you know about what the firefighters really think then, because it's not exactly love for the guy.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
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  • qtegirl
    qtegirl Posts: 321
    Is this guy "swift-boating" Guliani?
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    qtegirl wrote:
    Is this guy "swift-boating" Guliani?


    A lot of people are apparently...

    http://www.rudy-urbanlegend.com/
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • blackredyellow
    blackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    qtegirl wrote:
    Is this guy "swift-boating" Guliani?

    Technique-wise, yes... and Rudy is making the same mistake Kerry did... not fighting it, and making the whole issue of 9/11 the focal point of his campaign.

    The difference is, that Kerry could have fought the criticism and didn't... Giuliani really doesn't have a leg to stand on to fight though...
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    The IAFF think he's a fraud....that says something to me.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • qtegirl
    qtegirl Posts: 321
    Well, I personally dont' like the guy and I certainly believe that he's taking a lot more credit for the response to 9/11 that he deserves. I specially don't like all the macho talk about fighting terrorrism (mainly because I'm against wars in general). But, just like what happened to Kerry: people with their own agendas (getting Bush reelected) dragging his war record through the mud, I'm skeptical of others who are trying to do the same to Guiliani. You gotta question their motives and keep in mind that the info they provide ("The REAL Guiliani") is very, very biased.
  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    A little insight into how well this guy can spin lies and not even flinch.
    Does it matter if he did lie? Many don't seem to be bothered when Clinton lied before Congress or when Moore lies in a "documentary". Or does it only matter when the 'otherside' lies?
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    surferdude wrote:
    Does it matter if he did lie? Many don't seem to be bothered when Clinton lied before Congress or when Moore lies in a "documentary". Or does it only matter when the 'otherside' lies?

    Does it mater if a potential future president is a liar? Yes it does.

    Look at what he is lying about. It's a symptom of a bigger problem.

    The entire IAFF is dead set against him. They want to get their side of the story out. It would seem odd the IAFF is smearing him without just cause don't you think?

    http://www.iaff.org/
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • LikeAnOcean
    LikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    If there's one thing thats constant in politics, its the the other side is usually lying.

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