Experts Question Clinton's New Hampshire Primary Win

RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
edited January 2008 in A Moving Train
Note the percentages swap as soon as they are run through a Diebold machine.

Clinton optical (Diebold) scan: 91,717 (52.95%)
Obama optical (Diebold) scan: 81,495 (47.05%)

Clinton hand-counted: 20,889 (47.05%)
Obama hand-counted: 23,509 (52.95%)

http://www.alternet.org/story/73551/

.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.

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Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • MasterFramerMasterFramer Posts: 2,268
    I knew she didnt win that shit...
    10.31.93 / 10.1.94 / 6.24.95 / 11.4.95 / 10.19-20.96 / 7.16.98 / 7.21.98 / 10.31.00 /8.4.01 Nader Rally/ 10.21.01 / 12.8-9.02 / 6.01.03 / 9.1.05 / 7.15-16,18.06 / 7.20.06 / 7.22-23.06 / Lolla 07
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
    Just imagine how easily the national election will be or can be manipulated.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • If this pans out, I think the public should storm Diebold's offices and smash every last machine to dust.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • MasterFramerMasterFramer Posts: 2,268
    g under p wrote:
    Just imagine how easily the national election will be or can be manipulated.

    Peace

    It already has been, at least twice now
    10.31.93 / 10.1.94 / 6.24.95 / 11.4.95 / 10.19-20.96 / 7.16.98 / 7.21.98 / 10.31.00 /8.4.01 Nader Rally/ 10.21.01 / 12.8-9.02 / 6.01.03 / 9.1.05 / 7.15-16,18.06 / 7.20.06 / 7.22-23.06 / Lolla 07
  • Bu2Bu2 Posts: 1,693
    Go to google or yahoo, and search their news sections for these key words:

    New Hampshire Recount

    When you do, you'll see that Kucinich and a Republican demanded a hand count of the NH votes, paid the $2,000 each to get that hand count, and as of Friday, New Hampshire has agreed to that hand count.

    Can you say: "Born to hand count, baby!"
    Feels Good Inc.
  • smokemsmokem Posts: 13
    Note the percentages swap as soon as they are run through a Diebold machine.

    Clinton optical (Diebold) scan: 91,717 (52.95%)
    Obama optical (Diebold) scan: 81,495 (47.05%)

    Clinton hand-counted: 20,889 (47.05%)
    Obama hand-counted: 23,509 (52.95%)

    http://www.alternet.org/story/73551/

    .

    Are these the same experts that had Obama up by 12%? After the 2000 election and now this I think we have had enough of experts don't you?
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    Kucinich, who drew about 1.4% of the New Hampshire Democratic primary vote, wrote, "This is not about my candidacy or any other individual candidacy. It is about the integrity of the election process." No other Democratic candidate, he noted, has stepped forward to question or pursue the claims being made.

    **********

    more proof that dems and republicans are more similar then different
  • cornnifercornnifer Posts: 2,130
    polaris wrote:
    Kucinich, who drew about 1.4% of the New Hampshire Democratic primary vote, wrote, "This is not about my candidacy or any other individual candidacy. It is about the integrity of the election process." No other Democratic candidate, he noted, has stepped forward to question or pursue the claims being made.

    **********

    more proof that dems and republicans are more similar then different

    How is this proof of republican/democrat similarity? i respect Kucinich for forking up something like 67,000 dollars, obviously, in the name of election integrity. The only candidate who really has anything to gain from a recount is Obama. The problem is, even if there was an instance of fraud (i wouldn't be surprised), it is HIGHLY unlikely a recount will uncover it. Who else would you expect to call for a recount? Hillary? She won, and if anyone cheated, its her! Obama? Any fraud, again, will not be uncovered and he would come off as a sore losing crybaby. He isn't one of those. WTF do you expect?
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • Question for you... Are there stats of precincts that use Diebold machines vs. handcounts? Or how those areas polled?

    While on the surface the number seem out of wack, but if there were Diebold machines in areas where Clinton polled a lot higher than Obama, that could make sense.

    I dunno... As far as NH goes, it won't make much of a difference as far as delegates since they split them anyway, but I would like to something like this to prove the inaccuracy/vote fraud of machines with no paper trail. I still have no idea who could possible defend the use of machines with no paper trail.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • MasterFramerMasterFramer Posts: 2,268
    cornnifer wrote:
    How is this proof of republican/democrat similarity? i respect Kucinich for forking up something like 67,000 dollars, obviously, in the name of election integrity. The only candidate who really has anything to gain from a recount is Obama. The problem is, even if there was an instance of fraud (i wouldn't be surprised), it is HIGHLY unlikely a recount will uncover it. Who else would you expect to call for a recount? Hillary? She won, and if anyone cheated, its her! Obama? Any fraud, again, will not be uncovered and he would come off as a sore losing crybaby. He isn't one of those. WTF do you expect?

    Great point... the whole thing is just a sad state of affairs.
    10.31.93 / 10.1.94 / 6.24.95 / 11.4.95 / 10.19-20.96 / 7.16.98 / 7.21.98 / 10.31.00 /8.4.01 Nader Rally/ 10.21.01 / 12.8-9.02 / 6.01.03 / 9.1.05 / 7.15-16,18.06 / 7.20.06 / 7.22-23.06 / Lolla 07
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    Great point... the whole thing is just a sad state of affairs.


    i see you have planted your Obama flag...
  • MasterFramerMasterFramer Posts: 2,268
    my2hands wrote:
    i see you have planted your Obama flag...

    Been there since he announced it last year...
    10.31.93 / 10.1.94 / 6.24.95 / 11.4.95 / 10.19-20.96 / 7.16.98 / 7.21.98 / 10.31.00 /8.4.01 Nader Rally/ 10.21.01 / 12.8-9.02 / 6.01.03 / 9.1.05 / 7.15-16,18.06 / 7.20.06 / 7.22-23.06 / Lolla 07
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    Been there since he announced it last year...


    got ya...


    i am actually getting a Kucinich 08 tattoo on my ass later this week :cool:
  • DerrickDerrick Posts: 475
    votes should be hand counted. period.
  • Uncle LeoUncle Leo Posts: 1,059
    cornnifer wrote:
    How is this proof of republican/democrat similarity? i respect Kucinich for forking up something like 67,000 dollars, obviously, in the name of election integrity. The only candidate who really has anything to gain from a recount is Obama. The problem is, even if there was an instance of fraud (i wouldn't be surprised), it is HIGHLY unlikely a recount will uncover it. Who else would you expect to call for a recount? Hillary? She won, and if anyone cheated, its her! Obama? Any fraud, again, will not be uncovered and he would come off as a sore losing crybaby. He isn't one of those. WTF do you expect?

    That's a good point about Obama. He can't complain about it or he gets labled as a whiner (Sore Loserman, you may recall). Obama's kind of stuck just doing his best and hoping cheating does not occur.

    And yes, good for Kucinich. He knows he cannot win. It's his job to remind these others about some other issues and, in this case, the integrity of the contest.
    I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.
  • Derrick wrote:
    votes should be hand counted. period.

    I don't mind them being machine counted, and with the millions of votes cast in a presidential election, it would take forever to hand count.

    But there should be a paper verification. Say you vote on a computer screen, and it should print out a confirmation receipt with your vote number (or whatever) and your choices. This should be visible to you and if it's wrong, you can summon help right there. If it's correct, you could confirm it and it gets dropped in a locked box in the voting machine and the whole box sealed that day. If a recount is needed, they can break the seal and use the "receipts" for recounts.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • I don't mind them being machine counted, and with the millions of votes cast in a presidential election, it would take forever to hand count.

    But there should be a paper verification. Say you vote on a computer screen, and it should print out a confirmation receipt with your vote number (or whatever) and your choices. This should be visible to you and if it's wrong, you can summon help right there. If it's correct, you could confirm it and it gets dropped in a locked box in the voting machine and the whole box sealed that day. If a recount is needed, they can break the seal and use the "receipts" for recounts.


    The problem with your idea is it just makes too much goddamn sense!
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    cornnifer wrote:
    How is this proof of republican/democrat similarity? i respect Kucinich for forking up something like 67,000 dollars, obviously, in the name of election integrity. The only candidate who really has anything to gain from a recount is Obama. The problem is, even if there was an instance of fraud (i wouldn't be surprised), it is HIGHLY unlikely a recount will uncover it. Who else would you expect to call for a recount? Hillary? She won, and if anyone cheated, its her! Obama? Any fraud, again, will not be uncovered and he would come off as a sore losing crybaby. He isn't one of those. WTF do you expect?

    read again what i posted ... this is the basis for your democratic institution - the ability for votes/people to be heard ... if that process is compromised in any way - then everything is a sham ...

    every candidate including hilary should consider this an issue - not just dennis kucinich ...
  • cornnifercornnifer Posts: 2,130
    polaris wrote:
    read again what i posted ... this is the basis for your democratic institution - the ability for votes/people to be heard ... if that process is compromised in any way - then everything is a sham ...

    every candidate including hilary should consider this an issue - not just dennis kucinich ...

    i did read it. Now read mine. Let me slow down for you a little bit. Why in the hell would Hillary chalenge the votecount? SHE FUCKING WON AND IF ANYONE CHEATED IT WAS HER! Challenging the votecount would be ridiculously waterheaded. Even if, completely unbeknownst to her, someone else cheated on her behalf, do you really think the fucking Clintons would be like "Now, wait a minute, in the interest of election integrity, i think we should recount the votes. i think i may have actually lost". Do you REALIZE how fucking stupid that sounds? Keep in mind, Bill Clinton's degree of honesty got him fucking impeached!
    Obama, the only candidate, with anything to gain, is not stupid enough to present himself as a sore losing, cry baby, conspiracy theorist. Especially when you could the ballots fifteen times and the fraud, even if exists, will not be uncovered or dealt with. He, afterall is still trying to win an election and has a legitmate shot at doing so. He would be comitting political suicide. It isn't that he is not concerned with integrity. C'mon think a little.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    cornnifer wrote:
    i did read it. Now read mine. Let me slow down for you a little bit. Why in the hell would Hillary chalenge the votecount? SHE FUCKING WON AND IF ANYONE CHEATED IT WAS HER! Challenging the votecount would be ridiculously waterheaded. Even if, completely unbeknownst to her, someone else cheated on her behalf, do you really think the fucking Clintons would be like "Now, wait a minute, in the interest of election integrity, i think we should recount the votes. i think i may have actually lost". Do you REALIZE how fucking stupid that sounds? Keep in mind, Bill Clinton's degree of honesty got him fucking impeached!
    Obama, the only candidate, with anything to gain, is not stupid enough to present himself as a sore losing, cry baby, conspiracy theorist. Especially when you could the ballots fifteen times and the fraud, even if exists, will not be uncovered or dealt with. He, afterall is still trying to win an election and has a legitmate shot at doing so. He would be comitting political suicide. It isn't that he is not concerned with integrity. C'mon think a little.

    i understand your theorizations - but you are essentially saying that every other candidate believes there may be fraud in the voting process but that they just don't care ... because they don't want to suffer any potential bounce back ...

    the voting process is not some convuluted system - it's really quite simple to do and ensure validity - democracies have been doing it for decades ... the system today has been compromised and no one seems to care except people like kucinich ... that is truly sad ...
  • cornnifercornnifer Posts: 2,130
    polaris wrote:
    i understand your theorizations - but you are essentially saying that every other candidate believes there may be fraud in the voting process but that they just don't care ... because they don't want to suffer any potential bounce back ...

    the voting process is not some convuluted system - it's really quite simple to do and ensure validity - democracies have been doing it for decades ... the system today has been compromised and no one seems to care except people like kucinich ... that is truly sad ...


    i don't think it has anything to do with not caring. That's my point. i'm pretty sure Hillary would care if she lost and thought she may have been cheated. Obama, i'm sure cares, but is not in a position to really throw a fit about it. Kucinich, on the other hand, is in the perfect position to chalenge it on the grounds of maintaining integrity. He has nothing to gain or lose. i've already said i respect kucinch for his stance on this issue. Its costing him some money and its obvious he is doing it for the right reasons. Now were Kucinich in Obama's place, i doubt he would do it.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    cornnifer wrote:
    i don't think it has anything to do with not caring. That's my point. i'm pretty sure Hillary would care if she lost and thought she may have been cheated. Obama, i'm sure cares, but is not in a position to really throw a fit about it. Kucinich, on the other hand, is in the perfect position to chalenge it on the grounds of maintaining integrity. He has nothing to gain or lose. i've already said i respect kucinch for his stance on this issue. Its costing him some money and its obvious he is doing it for the right reasons. Now were Kucinich in Obama's place, i doubt he would do it.

    well ... that's my point ... political strategy taking precedence over the legitimacy of your democracy ...
  • Uncle Leo wrote:
    That's a good point about Obama. He can't complain about it or he gets labled as a whiner (Sore Loserman, you may recall). Obama's kind of stuck just doing his best and hoping cheating does not occur.

    And yes, good for Kucinich. He knows he cannot win. It's his job to remind these others about some other issues and, in this case, the integrity of the contest.
    well taht totally sucks seeing as Gore actually won 2000 in reality.
    9/7/98, 8/3/00, 9/4/00, 4/15/03, 7/1/03, 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 5/24/06, 5/25/06, 6/17/08, 6/22/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 5/17/10, 10/15/13, 10/16/13.
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