Animal Rights Extremism

RolandTD20Kdrummer

"This is a clip taken from "the rise and rise of animal rights" an excellent documentary, as for why I oppose animal rights. That's simple, if you believe that a child's life is worth the same as a cockroach then you believe that everyone who eats a burger or any animal product is an accessory to murder.

This would oppress the vast majority of the worlds population , even putting that aside the classic argument of the fox, just shows how ludicrous this idea is. If you give animals rights, the most import being the right to life, what happens when a fox eats a rabbit? He has committed murder and is sent to prison? The lion has the right to eat whoever it wants? It's just insane"

excerpt:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiNxpmdNhPM

Full vids...
The Rise and Rise of Animal Rights clip 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rj_WLwWzu8
The Rise and Rise of Animal Rights clip 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh14i4sw3_Y

How does one who describes themselves as humane and compassionate conduct themselves in a manner as depicted in the first link? The disabled guy in the wheelchair condones experimentation on mice for the advancement of science with hopes to cure his disability, and receives some utterly scathing backlash from animal rights activists...

.

monkey spanker

good post. also, this was not mentioned, but it disturbed me. during the ceremony for those that died at va. tech this week, the poet doing all the talking compared the tragedy to a baby elephant being killed for its tusks. now, i am not for killing baby elephants. but how warped does your mind have to be to think its comparable to a massacre of young people on a college campus.? and to think, this lady has over 20 degrees rom various colleges.

Mookie Baylock

I see nothing wrong with people (or other animals) killing and eating other animals for the purposes of feeding (if its as a fashion accessory than its pure evil though). When an animal is eaten by another animal it is survival of the fittest, the weakest get eaten and the strongest live to procreate.

It is how we TREAT the animals which we are going to eat that is important to me. Cramming chickens into cramped cages for their entire lives is wrong, as is bludgeoning a cow to death with a mallet and skinning a baby seal alive. In effect this is the exact opposite of survival of the fittest because the healthiest animals are the ones people most want to eat.

That being said I just finished eating a DQ cheeseburger so I guess I'm a big hypocrite.

chopitdown

Mookie Baylock wrote:

That being said I just finished eating a DQ cheeseburger so I guess I'm a big hypocrite.

don't worry, that's not real beef in the cheesburger

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Mookie Baylock wrote:

I see nothing wrong with people (or other animals) killing and eating other animals for the purposes of feeding (if its as a fashion accessory than its pure evil though). When an animal is eaten by another animal it is survival of the fittest, the weakest get eaten and the strongest live to procreate.

It is how we TREAT the animals which we are going to eat that is important to me. Cramming chickens into cramped cages for their entire lives is wrong, as is bludgeoning a cow to death with a mallet and skinning a baby seal alive. In effect this is the exact opposite of survival of the fittest because the healthiest animals are the ones people most want to eat.

That being said I just finished eating a DQ cheeseburger so I guess I'm a big hypocrite.

I agree there certainly is a moral middle ground to this argument. I for one love animals, and I've always spoiled my pets at every opportunity.

On the using mice for science argument....New York would probably be overrun by rats probably a matter of months if animal rights activists were to hold their argument steadfast to any source of illumination.

mookie9999

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

How does one who describes themselves as humane and compassionate conduct themselves in a manner as depicted in the first link? The disabled guy in the wheelchair condones experimentation on mice for the advancement of science with hopes to cure his disability, and receives some utterly scathing backlash from animal rights activists...

I only viewed the excerpt. However, I would not label the people writing the hate mail as animal rights activists but rather narrow minded extremists, not unlike people on the other side of the debate. Animals rights activists that I have known have been compassionate loving individuals, that are for stopping factory farms, fur peddlers, sport hunters, and animal testing of the likes of Proctor and Gamble. They are in favor of running organized tests that are actually trying to find solutions and cures for what ails humans, but not at the expense of the same labs running tests to see how mascara will effect a mouse. Extremists and activists are two different things. What side do you fall on?

cornnifer

i was a vegetarian for twelve years before giving it up. During that time, though i was pretty devout, i never afforded cows or chickens the same ontological status as human beings. i certainly respect peoples beliefs in this area, and to a degree, still share them, but some take it waaaaay to far.



*wanders off to cd closet to dig out "meat is murder" by the Smiths. Doesn't have to dig very far . Oh, there it is. "...its death for no reason, and death for no reason is muurderrr... oh, oh, oh, it is muurrderrr... *

RolandTD20Kdrummer

mookie9999 wrote:

I only viewed the excerpt. However, I would not label the people writing the hate mail as animal rights activists but rather narrow minded extremists, not unlike people on the other side of the debate. Animals rights activists that I have known have been compassionate loving individuals, that are for stopping factory farms, fur peddlers, sport hunters, and animal testing of the likes of Proctor and Gamble. They are in favor of running organized tests that are actually trying to find solutions and cures for what ails humans, but not at the expense of the same labs running tests to see how mascara will effect a mouse. Extremists and activists are two different things. What side do you fall on?

I agree. That's really the crux of the entire argument, and the intended purpose of the documentary. Animal rights creates the framework for some to employ hatred based on it's beliefs. It really puts the entire issue into an analytical perspective, which I believe is a necessity.

idratherbe

mookie9999 wrote:

I only viewed the excerpt. However, I would not label the people writing the hate mail as animal rights activists but rather narrow minded extremists, not unlike people on the other side of the debate. Animals rights activists that I have known have been compassionate loving individuals, that are for stopping factory farms, fur peddlers, sport hunters, and animal testing of the likes of Proctor and Gamble. They are in favor of running organized tests that are actually trying to find solutions and cures for what ails humans, but not at the expense of the same labs running tests to see how mascara will effect a mouse. Extremists and activists are two different things. What side do you fall on?

Ding ding ding! Winner. Those are organizations worth supporting.

I also contribute to organizations like the Animal Legal Defense Fund. Far from extremists, one of their missions is to take people to court who commit horrible abuses but are basically ignored by local law enforcement agencies. That, to me, is the best description of 'animal rights activists': defending those who cannot defend themselves. There are some sick mofos out there and they should be dealt with to the fullest extent of the law.

People writing despicable hate mail to a seriously ill man? Apples and oranges.

~peace~

RyeGuy

no one should burn dogs BUT we shouldn't say animals have equal rights.

Uncle Leo

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

"...as for why I oppose animal rights...

Yikes! (perhaps you mean you oppose the notion that animals are equal, but they should have some rights, i.e. not being tortured).

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

"This is a clip taken from "the rise and rise of animal rights" an excellent documentary, as for why I oppose animal rights. That's simple, if you believe that a child's life is worth the same as a cockroach then you believe that everyone who eats a burger or any animal product is an accessory to murder.

This would oppress the vast majority of the worlds population , even putting that aside the classic argument of the fox, just shows how ludicrous this idea is. If you give animals rights, the most import being the right to life, what happens when a fox eats a rabbit? He has committed murder and is sent to prison? The lion has the right to eat whoever it wants? It's just insane"

excerpt:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiNxpmdNhPM

Full vids...
The Rise and Rise of Animal Rights clip 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rj_WLwWzu8
The Rise and Rise of Animal Rights clip 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh14i4sw3_Y

How does one who describes themselves as humane and compassionate conduct themselves in a manner as depicted in the first link? The disabled guy in the wheelchair condones experimentation on mice for the advancement of science with hopes to cure his disability, and receives some utterly scathing backlash from animal rights activists...

.

I think that there is a place for animal rights and more humane treatment. However, a lot of the animal rights groups have to understand the meaning of "pragmatism." While they could start with unneeded torturing situations and horrible mistreatment at food factories, they go to middle schools and tell kids not to drink milk. That pisses people off and makes them look like clowns, thus weakening their influence on the topics that people could get on board with.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Uncle Leo wrote:

Yikes! (perhaps you mean you oppose the notion that animals are equal, but they should have some rights, i.e. not being tortured).



I think that there is a place for animal rights and more humane treatment. However, a lot of the animal rights groups have to understand the meaning of "pragmatism." While they could start with unneeded torturing situations and horrible mistreatment at food factories, they go to middle schools and tell kids not to drink milk. That pisses people off and makes them look like clowns, thus weakening their influence on the topics that people could get on board with.

This is why I bolded the quotes. Not my words, it's the description from the guy who posted the vid.

I love animals. I wish I had the lifestyle of my pets.

musicismylife78

I had my grandmother die of cancer. And my surviving grandma was just diagnosed with it. And I would do anything to bring back my dead grandma and to save my other grandma.

That said, animal experimentation is flat out wrong. Its gross and disgusting and inhumane. Its not right.

Tearing down trees that have bark that could save people with cancer, or testing out antidotes on animals, while interesting and tempting, is wrong.

Trees shouldnt be cut and animals shouldnt be harmed, in order to save human lives. Thats wrong. We are in no position and have right to do that.

To me, animals are just as important as humans. They have feelings, and are intelligent. Pigs and cows are actually fairly intelligent, which makes the fact that they are ruthlessly slaughtered so people can enjoy bacon and a hamburger, is enough to want to make me puke.

Its not like they are testing products on animals and the animals are fine. No, these animals are being harmed and brutalized along the way.

Animals should never be tortured and harmed or tested on. Anyone who thinks so is a sadist.

Why are people okay with eating a cow or a pig or a fish but would look at you crazy if you said, "lets fry up fluffy the dog"

Smellyman2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YFkOhlpSy4

When you watch the above vid and see how cruel people can be it should make everyone sick. I have no more compassion for VT shootings than I do for these equally defenseless animals that are being tortured long before they are dead.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

chiefojibwa wrote:

sometimes i hope there is a god and it's a cow

lol...

halv

Like someone posted earlier, there are extremes to both sides. There is no doubt that some animal rights activists have done some fairly questionable things. That being said I don't think anything they do, short of murdering someone which has never happened, could compare to the absolute torture animals are put through for human want. That video posted is nothing in comparison to videos that could be posted of what is done to animals. Something like 9 billions land based animals are killed for food in the US alone each year. 9 billion!!! And these animals are killed in the most gruesome and painful ways. This doesn't even take into account animals used for experiments, entertainment, clothing, etc etc. Every argument ever used as to why it's ok to abuse and use animals in the ways we do has been used in the past to justify slavery, genocides and women as property. Let's not forget that humans are animals too.
Ghandi said it best: "The greatness of a nation and it's moral progress can be judged by the way it treats it's animals."
You want to watch a video, watch the ones posted below and then tell me it's ok to treat animals the way we do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhxKnys7Ryw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sRiH_Owq9U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8U9dw-9U4E

musicismylife78

i dont see extremism on the animal rights side. How can you compare the actions of the CEO's of these companies, that maim, murder, brutalize and otherwise torture animals, in the name of profit to an animal rights activist.

I am on peta activist mailing list, and they promote nonviolence. They arent calling for people to overthrow the government with force, in fact they dont have a socialist philosophy. They promote nonviolent protest.

Secondly, I think we all can name off the sins of these corporations that toruture and murder animals, but I cant think of too many animal rights activists who have tortured and killed or maimed people involved in doing such actions.
Going into some lab and overturning some beakers and freeing animals from cages isnt the same as what these corporations do, and even bombing of factories isnt the same. For the simple fact: I cant think of a single case where an animal rights "extremist" as you say have murdered, brutalized, maimed, or tortued humans. can you?

Plus I love the term extremist. People who want animals not to be tortured and are actually willing to break into a lab and set these animals free, they are extremists? And what are those people who actually torture animals for profit? Are they extremists? Are they more than extremists?

I mean a man who kills a child isnt an extremist. He's a killer. Why not put the label here as well. Why not call those who murder animals for profit "killers" and "murderers"

I have never understood how people get off trying to use language that obviously favors capitalists and those in power. Those people by nature wish to harm the environment and animals. Theres nothing good about them. They are evil.

Instead of arresting and persecuting animal rights activists, why not jail the real criminals?

Ahnimus

At the granular scale of the universe, we are one.

What is experience? Consciousness.

What is consciousness? Awareness.

A fruit fly is aware.

It's my belief that anything that feels pain must be aware of it.

The universe does not care.

cornnifer

Cheguevara6 wrote:

I am on peta activist mailing list, and they promote nonviolence. They arent calling for people to overthrow the government with force, in fact they dont have a socialist philosophy. They promote nonviolent protest.

?

Peta is an absolute joke. i'm saying this as an, aforementioned, individual who practiced vegetarianism for 12 years. i think originally, their mission statement may have been respectable. Once they went off the deep end and started bitching about duck and rabbit shaped marshmallow peeps at easter time, television commercials depicting cows as happy, claiming the beef production industry promotes racism etc. they effectively removed themselves from any list of organizations that any sensible person can take seriously. i mean, seriously, shut the fuck up about animal crackers. They have made a complete mockery of themselves.

halv

cornnifer wrote:

Peta is an absolute joke. i'm saying this as an, aforementioned, individual who practiced vegetarianism for 12 years. i think originally, their mission statement may have been respectable. Once they went off the deep end and started bitching about duck and rabbit shaped marshmallow peeps at easter time, television commercials depicting cows as happy, claiming the beef production industry promotes racism etc. they effectively removed themselves from any list of organizations that any sensible person can take seriously. i mean, seriously, shut the fuck up about animal crackers. They have made a complete mockery of themselves.

That's fine to have your opinion about PETA. Just don't discount the work of other animal welfare/rights organizations who do some incredible work. You might want to check out Farm Sanctuary, Humane Society of the United States, In Defense of Animals, just to name a few.