Pretty crazy thread and supposed experiments on DNA I found

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Has anyone heard of any of these experiments? Especially the 50 miles away emotions one, or is this all just urban legend?

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message500768/pg1

i.e.
http://www.labyrinthina.com/dna.htm

I'm totally scratching my head here and wondering, take a read through it.

couldn't find anything on snopes.

Urban Hiker

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Has anyone heard of any of these experiments? Especially the 50 miles away emotions one, or is this all just urban legend?

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message500768/pg1

i.e.
http://www.labyrinthina.com/dna.htm

I'm totally scratching my head here and wondering, take a read through it.

couldn't find anything on snopes.

From the bolded site:

TWO WOLVES

A Native American grandfather was talking to his grandson about how he felt about the tragedy. He said, "I feel as if I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is the vengeful, angry, violent one. The other wolf is the loving, compassionate one."

The grandson asked him, "Which wolf will win the fight in your heart?"

The grandfather answered, "The one I feed."

That is beautiful. My mom and I have discussed this in sort of a new agey way, 'cause we aren't scientists. I'm happy it is being researched through scientific study.

Maybe someone from the field visits this board.

ClimberInOz

I could not open the first link, but the second one has some obvious scientific flaws. I am not sure if this is a faulty interpretation of a good experiment, a good interpretation of a faulty experiment of just plain made up.

But for starters...

The first experiment (phantom DNA effect)- No methedology is present on the web- Dr Vladimir Poponin presents results only and a vague overview of what he is said to have done.

From the original site: 'They measured the distribution (ie the location) of the photons and found they were completely random inside the container. This was the expected result. Then some DNA was placed inside the container and the distribution (location) of the photons was remeasured. This time the photons were LINED UP in an ORDERED way and aligned with the DNA. In other words the physical DNA had an effect on the non-physical photons.'

Measuring photons is not an easy task- and by measuring the photons you have an affect on their position and speed. This is the uncertainty principle shows that we cannot know the psition and speed of a particle at the same time. Photons behave like particles, hence the term wave-particle duality. Therefore the above experiment violates a fundamental law of physics- the act of measuring the photons interferes with the position and speed... therefore we cannot tell if they are lined up or not.


The second article: We don't even get the name of a scientist for this one...

To quote: 'Leukocytes (white blood cells) were collected for DNA from donors and placed into chambers so they could be measure electrical changes. In this experiment, the donor was placed in one room and subjected to "emotional stimulation" consisting of video clips, which generated different emotions in the donor. The DNA was placed in a different room in the same building. Both the donor and his DNA were monitored and as the donor exhibited emotional peaks or valleys (measured by electrical responses), the DNA exhibited the IDENTICAL RESPONSES AT THE EXACT SAME TIME.'

DNA does not produce electrical charges- DNA is an acid that contains the blueprints for life. It's influence on life is through RNA copying the DNA
sequence to allow the production of specific protiens. The idea of DNA producing an electrcal charge is without a shred of evidence.


The third article: They used a Hewlett Packard UV absorption spectrophotometer to measure DNA lengthening and contractoin based on the effect of emotions when holding the DNA and at a distance.

The full report can be found here: http://appreciativeinquiry.case.edu/uploads/HeartMath%20article.pdf

In this experiment they are essentially measuring the absorbtion spectrum at 260nm- which is a well known measure of the denaturing of DNA. The idea being that as the DNA denaturs (double helix structure unwinding), the intensity of the light at wavelength 260nm will change. This is all solid science so far.

However, look though the results and you will find a substantial lack of quantitative data. You will find a few examples given where the wavelength has changed, but nothing of particular statistical significance. There are many factors that can influence the 260nm absorbtion line... so drawing conclusions based on such a small chnge in a few subjects is making a substantial leap.

Another example is in the following. An unusual spectram result showed not just a change in intensity of the spectrum at 260nm, but also a different spectrum. Rather than address an anomaly in a single subject by refering to numerous possible causes (including random genetic errors in reannealing the DNA, ie- putting it back together), they respond with the following:

'One individual studied was upset and frustrated, and had little control over his emotions. This individual showed an unusually low ECG coherence ratio. However because of the strong intensity of his emotional experience, his energy caused a change in the conformation of DNA. The spectra in Figure 3 demonstrate the unusual effect of frustration on DNA. The results indicate an
increased winding of the DNA and a shift in the absorption peak. This is an unusual effect which indicates that in addition to changing the conformation of DNA, an alteration in the physical/chemical structure of one or more of the bases in the DNA molecule has occurred. Although the incoherent energy associated with frustration resulted in a change in DNA, this individual could
not intentionally bring about this change. Since different intentions produced different effects on the DNA conformation, it was of interest to see whether a specific intention could be directed toward a specific DNA sample. Three
identical aliquots of DNA were held by an individual, generating sustained coherent heart frequencies, who intended to denature two samples to different degrees and not to influence the third sample at all. Once the energy allotment was assigned to each sample of DNA, the different'.


Bad science, regardless whether applied to physics, biology or new age pseudo-science as in this case, at best lazy and at worse manipulative and dishonest. I put these articles into the bad science category... but read for yourself and make your own judgement as well.

Kann

ClimberInOz wrote:

IMeasuring photons is not an easy task- and by measuring the photons you have an affect on their position and speed. This is the uncertainty principle shows that we cannot know the psition and speed of a particle at the same time.

I agree with everything you said. I thought you might find this interesting. I found the reference in an article in a magazine (can't post it here, it's not in english), and it seems the uncertainty principle may not be true much longer.

ClimberInOz

Kann wrote:

I agree with everything you said. I thought you might find this interesting. I found the reference in an article in a magazine (can't post it here, it's not in english), and it seems the uncertainty principle may not be true much longer.

From the article...

'Chains of coupled resonators are capable of dramatically slowing the speed of light. When all the resonators are identical light can, in principle, be stopped altogether.'

Interesting idea- although I don't have a subscription so I cannot read further.Reminds me of the research that hypothesises to be able to trap a low number of photons and excite them to a crystalline state. We will have to see if the theory converts to practice in these cases.

Thanks for the link!

NMyTree

Urban Hiker wrote:

From the bolded site:

TWO WOLVES

A Native American grandfather was talking to his grandson about how he felt about the tragedy. He said, "I feel as if I have two wolves fighting in my heart. One wolf is the vengeful, angry, violent one. The other wolf is the loving, compassionate one."

The grandson asked him, "Which wolf will win the fight in your heart?"

The grandfather answered, "The one I feed. "

That's from the movie 'Pathfinder". Just watched this movie on Wednesday night.

NMyTree

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Has anyone heard of any of these experiments? Especially the 50 miles away emotions one, or is this all just urban legend?


http://www.labyrinthina.com/dna.htm

I'm totally scratching my head here and wondering, take a read through it.

couldn't find anything on snopes.

This is really nothing new. There's been a lot of research on how positive thinking (state of mind) has a beneficial effect on our bodies and promotes self-healing. Of course it has to begin at the DNA level.


Gary Null used to talk about this all the time.

Many believe it's all a bunch of goofy nonsense. But there seems to be some evidence that it does work with some people.

Cases where some people defeat cancer by meditating and keeping a positive mind. Their bodies eliminated the cancer, completely.

While with other people, it did not work.

Is it simply a case where those people would have recovered or defeated their diseases, anyway; because maybe their bodies had some kind of natural defense that not everyone has? I don't know.

Could it be the other people simply were never really as positive and meditative, as they needed to be or could have been? I don't know

But it's an interesting concept and I definitely believe we humans have capabilities within our brains and bodies, which at this time we're not aware of or can't tap into.

Interesting stuff.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Thanks for the breakdown ClimberInOz. What I was finding was a lot of various sites plagiarising word for word the exact same experiments.

I was dead tired when I posted and I was planning on revisiting the info more in depth.
Looks like you beat me to it.

all sounds about right

RolandTD20Kdrummer

NMyTree wrote:

This is really nothing new. There's been a lot of research on how positive thinking (state of mind) has a beneficial effect on our bodies and promotes self-healing. Of course it has to begin at the DNA level.


Gary Null used to talk about this all the time.

Many believe it's all a bunch of goofy nonsense. But there seems to be some evidence that it does work with some people.

Cases where some people defeat cancer by meditating and keeping a positive mind. Their bodies eliminated the cancer, completely.

While with other people, it did not work.

Is it simply a case where those people would have recovered or defeated their diseases, anyway; because maybe their bodies had some kind of natural defense that not everyone has? I don't know.

Could it be the other people simply were never really as positive and meditative, as they needed to be or could have been? I don't know

But it's an interesting concept and I definitely believe we humans have capabilities within our brains and bodies, which at this time we're not aware of or can't tap into.

Interesting stuff.

I totally agree with the state of mind thing for healing and being well. I'm definitely down with that.