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Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming, Scientist Says

RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
edited March 2007 in A Moving Train
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.

http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

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Comments

  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    Err on the side of Caution
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 16,106
    Nope, it is the evil corporations' fault. Try again.
  • EvilToasterElfEvilToasterElf Posts: 1,119
    Nice article, its good to keep everyone on their toes.

    The article went on to mention that most scientists consider the Martian climate change as due to the wobble is Mars' orbit.

    The Earth's wobble is called the Melankovitch Cycle.

    Now if there was some kind of wobble even bigger than a planetary wobble, like a Milky Wobble or a solar system wobble, that could open up a whole new can of climatology worms. I'll be excited for the day when we figure it out.

    But we will see scientists reacting pretty harsh to this kind of research now, because they've all worked so damn hard to push climate change to the forefront for the last ten to twenty years while governments were ignoring them, they're not gonna want to share the spotlight now.
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    My point is, what if the 'wobble' isn't the primary cause, or is, but not the entire cause. What if we contribute to global warming. Isn't it better to err on the side of caution?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    Ahnimus wrote:
    My point is, what if the 'wobble' isn't the primary cause, or is, but not the entire cause. What if we contribute to global warming. Isn't it better to err on the side of caution?

    I have to say, I'm astonished at how you've changed your tune overnight, simply because you watched Al Gore's DVD.

    Is it better to err on the side of caution? All things being equal, yes. But all things are not equal. People who want us to err on the side of caution, also tend to propose things which will cost us something. So do you suggest we err on the side of caution at any cost?
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    jeffbr wrote:
    I have to say, I'm astonished at how you've changed your tune overnight, simply because you watched Al Gore's DVD.

    Is it better to err on the side of caution? All things being equal, yes. But all things are not equal. People who want us to err on the side of caution, also tend to propose things which will cost us something. So do you suggest we err on the side of caution at any cost?

    No, but the bennefit in this case may far outweigh the cost. The cost of being wrong could be far greater than any monetary value.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    jeffbr wrote:
    I have to say, I'm astonished at how you've changed your tune overnight, simply because you watched Al Gore's DVD.

    Is it better to err on the side of caution? All things being equal, yes. But all things are not equal. People who want us to err on the side of caution, also tend to propose things which will cost us something. So do you suggest we err on the side of caution at any cost?


    is the world not worth a few bucks? how much would be too much for you? does it have to be free to even be conceivable to you? it seems like a cheap, greedy outlook, an inhabitable planet seems to worth far more than some cost <gasp> to me.
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    El_Kabong wrote:
    is the world not worth a few bucks? how much would be too much for you? does it have to be free to even be conceivable to you? it seems like a cheap, greedy outlook, an inhabitable planet seems to worth far more than some cost <gasp> to me.

    Of course it is.

    But burning dollars chasing nonsense doesn't seem like a good plan. So the trick is to figure out the right solutions to actual issues and then attack them. We seem to have a lot of people willing to spend other peoples' money to "Just do something, anything!!!!!" In my life I like to ensure that I spend my money on things that I think will make a difference. My first reaction when other people try to spend my money is have everyone take a deep breath, and then lay out precisely what my money is going to be spent on, and the effects expected to be achieved.

    I'm not saying we should do nothing. I'm not saying we shouldn't spend money. I was simply reacting to the notion of "erring on the side of caution" equalling haphazzard spending of my money. Hopefully you can see the difference.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    bootlegger10 wrote:
    Nope, it is the evil corporations' fault. Try again.

    It's more about ever growing population numbers using the sources of energy that are readily available. Each country's technology level v.s. population plays into the equation massively as well. Unless you are saying evil corporations are controlling all new discoveries in science with regards to energy production.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • bubbamackdaddy69bubbamackdaddy69 Posts: 576
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

    And yet another reason why I don't buy into the whole scare that humans are causing Global Warming..
    Master of Zen
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    From that link:

    "Man-made greenhouse warming has made a small contribution to the warming seen on Earth in recent years, but it cannot compete with the increase in solar irradiance," Abdussamatov said.

    We are causing a global warming, you'd be hard-up to find a scientist that disagrees with that. So let's worry about what we can do to slow down the process. The effect the sun is having on us at this point is probably minimal.

    The reason An Inconvenient Truth managed to convince me is because it shows actual data, real evidence, not just claims and statements. I don't give a shit what some scientist says, I want to see their work after it's been peer reviewed.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    The most convincing evidence to me is the hypothesis that allows scientists to predict the temperature change based on global warming.

    http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/pubs/mann2003b/mann2003b.html

    If they can predict change based on the knowledge that greenhouse gases cause global warming and it works, any deviation from it, is probably unexpected things like solar radiation, but if they were wrong, their predictions should be way off.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    I think when you factor in the global cooling phenomena of clouds becoming more reflective due to man made particle pollution, and temps are still going up, something's definitely going on.

    75% of the mass of the earths atmosphere is only 11 km's away.

    Then I read articles like this

    http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/

    ...either way who wants to breathe nasty polluted air?
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    bubbamackdaddy69 wrote:
    And yet another reason why I don't buy into the whole scare that humans are causing Global Warming..

    even if you don't believe in it you can't deny we've poisoned our air, water and land
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    Ahnimus wrote:
    The most convincing evidence to me is the hypothesis that allows scientists to predict the temperature change based on global warming.

    http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/pubs/mann2003b/mann2003b.html

    If they can predict change based on the knowledge that greenhouse gases cause global warming and it works, any deviation from it, is probably unexpected things like solar radiation, but if they were wrong, their predictions should be way off.

    Kind of like their prediction about the 2006 hurricane season, huh?
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    El_Kabong wrote:
    even if you don't believe in it you can't deny we've poisoned our air, water and land

    and food supply...
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    El_Kabong wrote:
    even if you don't believe in it you can't deny we've poisoned our air, water and land

    Hehe......must....instill....guilt.....must.....create.....criminals....must.....live in.....fear
  • surferdudesurferdude Posts: 2,057
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Hehe......must....instill....guilt.....must.....create.....criminals....must.....live in.....fear
    C'mon. It's Friday, give El K a break. When other species pollute their environmrnt it's natural, but when we do the same thing we do it outside of nature. See because we're special, part of nature when it's convenient for the arguement and not part of nature when that's what the arguement calls for. FFG sometimes I wonder what they taught you in school...
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    surferdude wrote:
    C'mon. It's Friday, give El K a break.

    Yeah, that sucked. Sorry EK. Your point was right. For some reason, it just struck me as funny.
    When other species pollute their environmrnt it's natural, but when we do the same thing we do it outside of nature.

    Huh?
    See because we're special, part of nature when it's convenient for the arguement and not part of nature when that's what the arguement calls for.

    I'm confused.
    FFG sometimes I wonder what they taught you in school...

    It's more about what they didn't teach me. Respect, for the most part.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    surferdude wrote:
    C'mon. It's Friday, give El K a break. When other species pollute their environmrnt it's natural, but when we do the same thing we do it outside of nature. See because we're special, part of nature when it's convenient for the arguement and not part of nature when that's what the arguement calls for. FFG sometimes I wonder what they taught you in school...

    Skunks?!
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • Uncle LeoUncle Leo Posts: 1,059
    surferdude wrote:
    C'mon. It's Friday, give El K a break. When other species pollute their environmrnt it's natural, but when we do the same thing we do it outside of nature. See because we're special, part of nature when it's convenient for the arguement and not part of nature when that's what the arguement calls for. FFG sometimes I wonder what they taught you in school...

    If the automobile had been invented and used by hippos, I'd blame the hippos.
    I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.
  • AbookamongstthemanyAbookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Hehe......must....instill....guilt.....must.....create.....criminals....must.....live in.....fear

    People worry about differnet things. Some about money, others about clean air and water...I think we all still manage to enjoy life and relax inspite of our concerns.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    People worry about differnet things. Some about money, others about clean air and water...I think we all still manage to enjoy life and relax inspite of our concerns.
    Good point.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    Uncle Leo wrote:
    If the automobile had been invented and used by hippos, I'd blame the hippos.

    http://www.show.me.uk/site/news/STO873.html

    Sons of bitches..........
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    People worry about differnet things. Some about money, others about clean air and water...I think we all still manage to enjoy life and relax inspite of our concerns.

    I hear you....just playing around a bit.
  • sonicreducersonicreducer Posts: 713
    farfromglorified wrote:
    http://www.show.me.uk/site/news/STO873.html

    Sons of bitches..........


    im switching to carrots and broccoli,... but carrots make me fart, so i guess we're fucked
    you're a real hooker. im gonna slap you in public.
    ~Ron Burgundy
  • AbookamongstthemanyAbookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    farfromglorified wrote:
    I hear you....just playing around a bit.

    Well good...it's Friday and I love playing around. :D I was only bringing balance to the force. :p
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    sonicreducer wrote:
    im switching to carrots and broccoli,... but carrots make me fart, so i guess we're fucked

    Hehehe....

    There are some days I wake up and really can't stop laughing at how silly this world is. Today is one of those days, I'm afraid.
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Well good...it's Friday and I love playing around. :D I was only bringing balance to the force. :p

    There is no try ;)
  • AbookamongstthemanyAbookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    farfromglorified wrote:
    There is no try ;)

    This I know. That's why I brought the balance and didn't waste time on trying. :p
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
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