Barack Obama sacks adviser over talks with Hamas

RolandTD20Kdrummer

On the topic of actions speak louder than words...

So much for "I'm gonna talk it out and see eye to eye" Obama.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article3897414.ece#cid=OTC-RSS&attr=2015164

"One of Barack Obama’s Middle East policy advisers disclosed yesterday that he had held meetings with the militant Palestinian group Hamas – prompting the likely Democratic nominee to sever all links with him"

uncanny... I can smell the diplomacy from here...it's smells like lies.

What's left for this guy? He's completely revealed himself via his actions in my books.

You think he's gonna be willing to talk to Hamas and work it out if he's firing people for doing the same?

Progressive? You gotta be kidding me...

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Some key points

* he wants more troops in Afghanistan

* he voted to keep the patriot act

* he voted on the resolution supporting Israel's invasion of Lebanon and of Gaza

* He calls Hezbollah and Hamas terrorists and will not talk to either

* he voted for sanctions on Iran and supports more of them

* he is a speaker for AIPAC (even after they were caught spying on the US)

* he fired all his staff who were not "kosher" enough to meet AIPAC's demands.

* nuclear options are still on the table.

* no monetary policy

* votes to raise taxes

* supports the National ID Act



Is this as good as it gets in 2008?

:(

El_Kabong

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Some key points

* he wants more troops in Afghanistan

* he voted to keep the patriot act

* he voted on the resolution supporting Israel's invasion of Lebanon and of Gaza

* He calls Hezbollah and Hamas terrorists and will not talk to either

* he voted for sanctions on Iran and supports more of them

* he is a speaker for AIPAC (even after they were caught spying on the US)

* he fired all his staff who were not "kosher" enough to meet AIPAC's demands.

* nuclear options are still on the table.

* no monetary policy

* votes to raise taxes

* supports the National ID Act



Is this as good as it gets in 2008?

:(

but all the signs say it's change i can believe in....

RolandTD20Kdrummer

"My position on Hamas is indistinguishable from the position of Hillary Clinton or John McCain. I said they are a terrorist organization and I've repeatedly condemned them. I've repeatedly said, and I mean what I say: since they are a terrorist organization, we should not be dealing with them until they recognize Israel, renounce terrorism, and abide by previous agreements." - Barak Obama

RolandTD20Kdrummer

nobody else has thoughts on this?

Thecure

El_Kabong wrote:

but all the signs say it's change i can believe in....

of course it's a change we can believe in becuase in reality peopel don't want change. that is why Obama and McCain are close in the polls.

i am not surprise that Obama fired the guy. i believe that you will see Obama moving closer to the middle now that he has won the primaries.

Rhinocerous Surprise

What's sad is that Obama keeps saying "My position is indistinguishable from..." such and such... Then talks about how different he is. On what, exactly?

Everything has chains... absolutely nothing's changed.

angelica

Thecure wrote:

i believe that you will see Obama moving closer to the middle now that he has won the primaries.

True. He's got the old "foot in the door" ploy supporting him. He's "in" with millions. This law states that once you get people heading in one direction, they will continue to do so, because they do not like inconsistency...it's a very effective ploy. He's got 'em. Even when he starts acting other than people like. They'll have to justify it, rather than go with their own ethics...people do what it takes to resolve the cognitive dissonance. It's the basics of how someone like Hitler operated with good, average citizens. Again, not that the content of Obama's intent is nefarious...I'm merely using Hitler/average folk, to demonstrate the principle.

And I agree...people don't really want change. People dig in against change for the most part.

Abookamongstthemany

angelica wrote:

True. He's got the old "foot in the door" ploy supporting him. He's "in" with millions. This law states that once you get people heading in one direction, they will continue to do so, because they do not like inconsistency...it's a very effective ploy. He's got 'em. Even when he starts acting other than people like. They'll have to justify it, rather than go with their own ethics...people do what it takes to resolve the cognitive dissonance. It's the basics of how someone like Hitler operated with good, average citizens. Again, not that the content of Obama's intent is nefarious...I'm merely using Hitler/average folk, to demonstrate the principle.

And I agree...people don't really want change. People dig in against change for the most part.

Completely agreed with you here and completely frustrated with this problem.

angelica

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

Completely agreed with you here and completely frustrated with this problem.

I may have shared this story before...but I once read a book on psychological ploys used, including this foot-in-the-door-ploy it seems Obama is using, which explained how such ploys work and how human nature is highly predictable with such principles/laws, and how they can be manipulated with ease. And that the results can be counted upon.

A few days later, I had an insurance salesman in my home using the exact ploys I'd read about on me. I turned him down at each level. He literally got up, indignantly, two separate times, heading for the door in a temper-tantrum way, accusing me of not being normal, merely because I said no, obviously in areas that were so unlikely by the average person. He literally said to me "what, have you had a bad life?", because I was calm and collected, and still turned him down. It was so eerie that I realized it was actually dangerous to have him in my home, given he was so upset with my calm detachment of his techniques.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

"Hamas is particularly popular among Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, though it also has a following in the West Bank, and to a lesser extent in other Middle Eastern countries. Since its formation in 1987, Hamas has conducted numerous social, political, and military actions. Its popularity stems in part from its welfare and social services to Palestinians in the occupied territories, including school and hospital construction. The group devotes much of its estimated $70 million annual budget to an extensive social services network, running many relief and education programs, and funds schools, orphanages, mosques, healthcare clinics, soup kitchens, and sports leagues. According to the Israeli scholar Reuven Paz "approximately 90 percent of the organization's work is in social, welfare, cultural, and educational activities"."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#Provision_of_social_welfare_and_education

If Obama is vehementy against talking to this organization....how the hell is he going to ever have hopes of solving anything?

He thinks they are terrorists

solution? ...hardly

RolandTD20Kdrummer

angelica wrote:

I may have shared this story before...but I once read a book on psychological ploys used, including this foot-in-the-door-ploy it seems Obama is using, which explained how such ploys work and how human nature is highly predictable with such principles/laws, and how they can be manipulated with ease. And that the results can be counted upon.

A few days later, I had an insurance salesman in my home using the exact ploys I'd read about on me. I turned him down at each level. He literally got up, indignantly, two separate times, heading for the door in a temper-tantrum way, accusing me of not being normal, merely because I said no, obviously in areas that were so unlikely by the average person. He literally said to me "what, have you had a bad life?", because I was calm and collected, and still turned him down. It was so eerie that I realized it was actually dangerous to have him in my home, given he was so upset with my calm detachment of his techniques.

somewhat o/t but.

Funny you should mention. I've had the same experience with a door and window salesman.

The guy was sitting at the kitchen table with brochures open etc.. and I kept turning him down. He started getting angry/confrontational, so much that was starting to get some premonitions of potential physical violence. The six senses were going off so to speak, to the point that him leaving promptly became the priority.

I suppose this tactic works quite well on elderly and submissive.

angelica

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

somewhat o/t but.

Funny you should mention. I've had the same experience with a door and window salesman.

The guy was sitting at the kitchen table with brochures open etc.. and I kept turning him down. He started getting angry/confrontational, so much that was starting to get some premonitions of potential physical violence. The six senses were going off so to speak, to the point that him leaving promptly became the priority.

I suppose this tactic works quite well on elderly and submissive.

According to the book I read, it's humans in general such ploys are expected to work on, by connecting with our hard-wired social laws as humans. Which also explains why only those who are "post-moral", or amoral - meaning they've moved beyond generally accepted social laws - are able to dodge such hooks. I was just testing what I'd read in the book re: these ploys and techniques and was shocked at how antagonized the guy got. And yet, even armed with my best knowledge, some of his ploys were starting to mesmerize me! I could feel one "charitable" approach he had start to hook my emotions, despite my best logic. The point the author of the book was making is that for the average individual, our ingrained social laws are laws...not options and by activating them, we can manipulate people like clockwork.

So, once again...Obama's got em. We've seen it before...the only way people will choose truth and inconsistency from having followed Obama thus far, as he becomes more "middle" or mediocre in actions, will be if/when Obama creates consequences so horrible and ongoingly, like GWB did, that people will have to acknowledge the horrible consequences they've co-created, condoned and supported. Siding with Israel and killing here and there in order to be "right"...that won't get much attention, sadly. That's just business as usual. It won't solve problems but will instead perpetuate them, but the average person keeps themselves unconscious in all manner of ways, anyway. They'll absorb the consequences of their actions, day in and out, uttering the usual refrain of "why me".

In the meantime, the posters on this board, who move from the far left, to the left, to the centre as they progress in life...well, it's a common part of the life process for many to mellow and compromise their idealism and ethics, moving into the happy acceptance of mediocrity. All for a very big cost.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

angelica wrote:

According to the book I read, it's humans in general such ploys are expected to work on, by connecting with our hard-wired social laws as humans. Which also explains why only those who are "post-moral", or amoral - meaning they've moved beyond generally accepted social laws - are able to dodge such hooks. I was just testing what I'd read in the book re: these ploys and techniques and was shocked at how antagonized the guy got. And yet, even armed with my best knowledge, some of his ploys were starting to mesmerize me! I could feel one "charitable" approach he had start to hook my emotions, despite my best logic. The point the author of the book was making is that for the average individual, our ingrained social laws are laws...not options and by activating them, we can manipulate people like clockwork.

So, once again...Obama's got em. We've seen it before...the only way people will choose truth and inconsistency from having followed Obama thus far, as he becomes more "middle" or mediocre in actions, will be if/when Obama creates consequences so horrible and ongoingly, like GWB did, that people will have to acknowledge the horrible consequences they've co-created, condoned and supported. Siding with Israel and killing here and there in order to be "right"...that won't get much attention, sadly. That's just business as usual. It won't solve problems but will instead perpetuate them, but the average person keeps themselves unconscious in all manner of ways, anyway. They'll absorb the consequences of their actions, day in and out, uttering the usual refrain of "why me".

In the meantime, the posters on this board, who move from the far left, to the left, to the centre as they progress in life...well, it's a common part of the life process for many to mellow and compromise their idealism and ethics, moving into the happy acceptance of mediocrity. All for a very big cost.

"our ingrained social laws are laws...not options" Nice statement.

Everything you just said I've come to realize by tossing it around in my head casually over the years. The pattern for thought manipulation to get a desired result is practically a science. Many politicians are highly adept at it. I noticed certain infomercials employ similar "duping" techniques like this as well. Appealing to urgency and needs/emotions by creating a false sense of both (and reality) to elicit a desired reaction. Taking advantage and stomping on whatever the good natured naivety is present to be taken in people. Were born full to the brim with this good nature, shame it isn't given more priority for preservation in society. Rather it's something to be exploited for bounty.

angelica

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

"our ingrained social laws are laws...not options" Nice statement.

Everything you just said I've come to realize by tossing it around in my head casually over the years. The pattern for thought manipulation to get a desired result is practically a science. Many politicians are highly adept at it. I noticed certain infomercials employ similar "duping" techniques like this as well. Appealing to urgency and needs/emotions by creating a false sense of both (and reality) to elicit a desired reaction. Taking advantage and stomping on whatever the good natured naivety is present to be taken in people. Were born full to the brim with this good nature, shame it isn't given more priority for preservation in society. Rather it's something to be exploited for bounty.

Yep. Businesses would not pour billions + into advertising were these techniques not completely reliable and if they could not count on multiplying their output in returns. Hence our salesfolk getting so upset to see someone escape their clutches.

I don't excuse the individual, though. People are so egotistical, they willfully make their choices. There's no telling people...as you well know! They turn on anyone who challenges their ego!

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Looks around for input and opinions from Obama supporters.....

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*tumble weed blows by*

RolandTD20Kdrummer

I want peace...

ps. please feel free to Bomb Hamas at will if they don't do what we command them to do, as per Israel...

I'm Barak Obama and I support this message...