You can't defend yourself if you are occupying another country

Truthmonger

Byrnzie wrote:

It would be fine if they did decide to 'stand' in the land alloted to them, and didn't instead seek to grab more and more land. I'd be the first one to support them if they returned to the internationally recognized borders, and made their 'stand' from there. Occupying the land belonging to the Palestinians doesn't constitute making a stand. It constitutes unjustified aggression.

Exactly. And I have to disagree with something Jlew said earlier about Israel making incremental concessions once the Palestinians do X or do Y, or kiss Barak's ass. As far as I'm concerned, I can't see how the onus is on the Palestinains any more. They've given enough already. How much more are they supposed to fucking give ? How much longer are they supposed to wait ? Their whole society and way of being has been wiped out, and yet Israel offers them nothing but patronizing ultimatums and glorified refugee camps. Along the way, Israel tries to swindle, er, negotiate a deal that sees 2 million West Bank Palestinians forced into an area the size of a parking lot. Fuck that noise.

Truthmonger

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Regardless of everything, to be fair, the Jews do need a place to call home.

Everyone else seems to have one.

Funny I've been chatting with my Jewish friend. He moved to Canada from Israel in 1993, and despite everything I've told him, he does not think I'm anti-Semite at all, but totally understands why I think the way I do.

One think does strike me as odd, and that's Ahmadinejad playing down the holocaust. That is a bit concerning.

Jews surrounded by arabs, where can the Jews go? I guess this is their stand.

and it's ugly...

Hey Roland, when you watched Ocupation 101, did you see that little girl talking about the conditions he has to live in ? It freaked me out seeing her. She was, what, 4-5 yrs. old (?), but she spoke like she was 35. It was surreal. This guy in front of me at the theatre starting ballin' his eyes out. And then i said "stop crying ya fuckin' pansy". Ok, I didn't really say that (psyche !) - truth be told I was too busy trying to hold it together myself. Was that not incredibly powerful to see that girl talk ?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Byrnzie wrote:

It would be fine if they did decide to 'stand' in the land alloted to them, and didn't instead seek to grab more and more land. I'd be the first one to support them if they returned to the internationally recognized borders, and made their 'stand' from there. Occupying the land belonging to the Palestinians doesn't constitute making a stand. It constitutes unjustified aggression.

You know what? I'm going to eat a plate load of crow here, and say i think everyone has the right to establish their foundation.

As crazy as it may seem, where can the jews go at a moments notice?

Saudi Arabia, perhaps, but what then?

I say you know what.... the holocaust exists, and the Jews need a break to establish home base.

I'm not saying carte blanche, but let them establish and experience peace like the rest of us.

The arabs can go anywhere in the region.

I may be last person to say what is right, but lets give the Jews a place to take a breath.

Given the entire area is Arab, and the Jews are the minority....am I wrong?

Hitler made a mess... there's no denying it really.

Just trying to put on the other shoe...

I can take the hardest criticism this board has to offer....it doesn't phase me that much.

actually I welcome it, for a reason.

(that wasn't directed towards you)

I seek the truth, wherever that brings me to an understanding...if that includes recalculating the equation ...so be it....

At some point the hatred has to stop. All things given, Jews ar the minority in that area.

Byrnzie

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

You know what? I'm going to eat a plate load of crow here, and say i think everyone has the right to establish their foundation.

As crazy as it may seem, where can the jews go at a moments notice?

Saudi Arabia, perhaps, but what then?

I say you know what.... the holocaust exists, and the Jews need a break to establish home base.

I'm not saying carte blanche, but let them establish and experience peace like the rest of us.

The arabs can go anywhere in the region.

I may be last person to say what is right, but lets give the Jews a place to take a breath.

Given the entire area is Arab, and the Jews are the minority....am I wrong?

Hitler made a mess... there's no denying it really.

Just trying to put on the other shoe...

I can take the hardest criticism this board has to offer....it doesn't phase me that much.

actually I welcome it, for a reason.

(that wasn't directed towards you)

I seek the truth, wherever that brings me to an understanding...if that includes recalculating the equation ...so be it....

At some point the hatred has to stop. All things given, Jews ar the minority in that area.

I think you misunderstand me. I've not once said that the Jews don't deserve a home and that they should get out of the Middle East. I'm saying that they should withdraw to the 1967 borders. That's all.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Byrnzie wrote:

I think you misunderstand me. I've not once said that the Jews don't deserve a home and that they should get out of the Middle East. I'm saying that they should withdraw to the 1967 borders. That's all.

I'm down with that, and I do not put words against what you have said.

I trust that you are attuned to the situation, and stand for the right understanding.

I suppose I was on a bit of a clarification of myself on your post as a reply...speaking in general.

all good mate...

next round is on me...

Byrnzie

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

next round is on me...

Cool. I'll get the pork scratchins.