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In retrospect, he said, "you say you wish you knew, but you didn't know on the way in
Bu2
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Top general acknowledges Iraq mistakes By LOLITA C. BALDOR, Associated Press Writer
30 minutes ago
The U.S. military's top general acknowledged Friday that he made mistakes in his early Iraq war strategy but said he still has no doubt that invading the country was the right decision.
Marine Gen. Peter Pace, retiring chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and one of the war's military architects, said he overestimated the ability of the Iraqi army to hold together after the invasion, and as a result underestimated the number of U.S. troops that would eventually be needed to fight the war.
Offering a blunt assessment of the decisions and recommendations he made back in early 2003, an introspective Pace told Pentagon reporters that with the aid of 20-20 hindsight, it's clear he made "errors in assumption."
"One of the mistakes I made in my assumptions going in was that the Iraqi people and the Iraqi army would welcome liberation, that the Iraqi army, given the opportunity, would stand together for the Iraqi people and be available to them to help serve the new nation," said Pace, who will leave the chairman's job on Oct. 1. "If I knew that the Iraqi army was not going to be available, then I probably would have made a different recommendation about the total size force going in."
In retrospect, he said, "you say you wish you knew, but you didn't know on the way in."
A Vietnam veteran who became the first Marine to chair the Joint Chiefs, Pace, 61, became another political casualty of the Iraq war, more than four years into the conflict.
Defense Secretary Robert Gates had planned to reappoint Pace for a second two-year term but in early June he changed his mind. Gates said he decided to replace Pace because the escalating discord — particularly in Congress — over the war would have triggered a bitter confirmation process, which would hurt the country.
On Friday, Pace offered his most extensive public self-evaluation of his Joint Chiefs tenure — which has included two years as chairman and four years as vice chairman.
Believing that the Iraqi army could be rebuilt, retrained and equipped by the end of 2006, Pace said that he did not — and never would think to — recommend in early 2006 that the size of the U.S. Army and Marine Corps be expanded.
But after the bombing of the revered Shiite mosque in Samarra in Feb. 2006, which unleashed widespread sectarian slaughter, it became clear that the U.S. would not be able to reduce force levels then and instead would have to beef up its own military to maintain troop rotations.
So, by the end of the year, Pace and other military were endorsing an increase in the size of both the Army and the Marine Corps.
Still, Pace said that after going back and reviewing his decisions, "I am comfortable in my own mind, with the things that I knew at the time, the recommendations that I made."
Further, he said, he has not wavered in his belief that the U.S. made the right call by invading Iraq.
Asked whether he still stands by comments he made several years ago when he said he had no doubts about the move, Pace did not hesitate.
"I absolutely do. Absolutely do. Absolutely do," he said.
"I'm proud of the fact that we stood and fought in Afghanistan and we are standing and fighting in Iraq. And did we make mistakes? Yes. But are we on the right path? Yes," he said, as Gates looked on. "Is it providing additional freedom for Iraqis and Afghanis, providing additional freedom for us at home? You bet. The more free people around the world, the stronger our democracy is and the safer our democracy is."
___
"The more free people around the world, the stronger our democracy is and the safer our democracy is."
You know something? I'm getting really tired of this argument. I'm not even going to get into how wrong it was for us to invade a country based on false assumptions, with false knowledge......I'm just going to say one thing that really gets me angry about our country these days. And it's this: Democracy may work for us, here in the U.S. (although, I'm finding that harder to believe, by the day!), but who in the hell are we to say that democracy should work for every other country under the sun?!
If people in the Middle East and elsewhere feel that their system of governing works better (whether it is tied to religious beliefs or socialistic beliefs, or whatever), who are we as the United States of America to tell them that OUR way works better?!
We are fortunate, in this country of mine, to have 50 -- count them -- 50 states that all agree to live under one "umbrella", if you will, when these 50 states comprise of many differering points of view, religions, ethnic makeups, and don't always agree on certain laws, interpretations of the Constitution, etc. The fact that the US has made it thus far, in its 200 year history of being a US is amazing. We are the "melting pot". Woo wee!! Happy 4th of July and happy "let's get a prize for getting along" for us!!
But what in hell makes us think that we can go invading a Middle East country and slamming -- I said SLAMMING -- our democracy on a region that existed long before the US was an apple shining in Uncle Sam's eye?
What gave us the right to invade other countries and demand democracy be suddenly practiced when it never had been practiced before?!
*gets off soap box*
30 minutes ago
The U.S. military's top general acknowledged Friday that he made mistakes in his early Iraq war strategy but said he still has no doubt that invading the country was the right decision.
Marine Gen. Peter Pace, retiring chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and one of the war's military architects, said he overestimated the ability of the Iraqi army to hold together after the invasion, and as a result underestimated the number of U.S. troops that would eventually be needed to fight the war.
Offering a blunt assessment of the decisions and recommendations he made back in early 2003, an introspective Pace told Pentagon reporters that with the aid of 20-20 hindsight, it's clear he made "errors in assumption."
"One of the mistakes I made in my assumptions going in was that the Iraqi people and the Iraqi army would welcome liberation, that the Iraqi army, given the opportunity, would stand together for the Iraqi people and be available to them to help serve the new nation," said Pace, who will leave the chairman's job on Oct. 1. "If I knew that the Iraqi army was not going to be available, then I probably would have made a different recommendation about the total size force going in."
In retrospect, he said, "you say you wish you knew, but you didn't know on the way in."
A Vietnam veteran who became the first Marine to chair the Joint Chiefs, Pace, 61, became another political casualty of the Iraq war, more than four years into the conflict.
Defense Secretary Robert Gates had planned to reappoint Pace for a second two-year term but in early June he changed his mind. Gates said he decided to replace Pace because the escalating discord — particularly in Congress — over the war would have triggered a bitter confirmation process, which would hurt the country.
On Friday, Pace offered his most extensive public self-evaluation of his Joint Chiefs tenure — which has included two years as chairman and four years as vice chairman.
Believing that the Iraqi army could be rebuilt, retrained and equipped by the end of 2006, Pace said that he did not — and never would think to — recommend in early 2006 that the size of the U.S. Army and Marine Corps be expanded.
But after the bombing of the revered Shiite mosque in Samarra in Feb. 2006, which unleashed widespread sectarian slaughter, it became clear that the U.S. would not be able to reduce force levels then and instead would have to beef up its own military to maintain troop rotations.
So, by the end of the year, Pace and other military were endorsing an increase in the size of both the Army and the Marine Corps.
Still, Pace said that after going back and reviewing his decisions, "I am comfortable in my own mind, with the things that I knew at the time, the recommendations that I made."
Further, he said, he has not wavered in his belief that the U.S. made the right call by invading Iraq.
Asked whether he still stands by comments he made several years ago when he said he had no doubts about the move, Pace did not hesitate.
"I absolutely do. Absolutely do. Absolutely do," he said.
"I'm proud of the fact that we stood and fought in Afghanistan and we are standing and fighting in Iraq. And did we make mistakes? Yes. But are we on the right path? Yes," he said, as Gates looked on. "Is it providing additional freedom for Iraqis and Afghanis, providing additional freedom for us at home? You bet. The more free people around the world, the stronger our democracy is and the safer our democracy is."
___
"The more free people around the world, the stronger our democracy is and the safer our democracy is."
You know something? I'm getting really tired of this argument. I'm not even going to get into how wrong it was for us to invade a country based on false assumptions, with false knowledge......I'm just going to say one thing that really gets me angry about our country these days. And it's this: Democracy may work for us, here in the U.S. (although, I'm finding that harder to believe, by the day!), but who in the hell are we to say that democracy should work for every other country under the sun?!
If people in the Middle East and elsewhere feel that their system of governing works better (whether it is tied to religious beliefs or socialistic beliefs, or whatever), who are we as the United States of America to tell them that OUR way works better?!
We are fortunate, in this country of mine, to have 50 -- count them -- 50 states that all agree to live under one "umbrella", if you will, when these 50 states comprise of many differering points of view, religions, ethnic makeups, and don't always agree on certain laws, interpretations of the Constitution, etc. The fact that the US has made it thus far, in its 200 year history of being a US is amazing. We are the "melting pot". Woo wee!! Happy 4th of July and happy "let's get a prize for getting along" for us!!
But what in hell makes us think that we can go invading a Middle East country and slamming -- I said SLAMMING -- our democracy on a region that existed long before the US was an apple shining in Uncle Sam's eye?
What gave us the right to invade other countries and demand democracy be suddenly practiced when it never had been practiced before?!
*gets off soap box*
Feels Good Inc.
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If I opened it now would you not understand?
so let me get this straight. the united states invaded a country not knowing whether that country's army was on their side?
what a bunch of dumbarses.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
But let me correct you on only one thing, Cate: It wasn't my country that invaded....it was my country's leaders.
semantics bu. when your government makes a decision it reflects upon the entire country.
though i do not hold the people responsible for any actions carried out by the government.
and in this case, when i say united states i mean the government, not the people. tis the government i rag on, not the citizenry.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
So Abu Risha says, "Bring it on", and he gets killed......why didn't that happen to Bush?
:(
the fact that we even have a plan to drop 12 tactical nukes on 12 suspected iranian 'nuclear sites', explicitily acknowledging '3 million prompt deaths' makes iranian 'radicals' sound sane.
If I opened it now would you not understand?