I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I watched it Bu. ever though he is agreeing to bring some troops home, people are still going to hate him. it doesnt really matter. I think its good we finally have a strategy that involves troops coming home while at the same time trying to be successful in Iraq. I'd like to see more troops come home quicker, but like he said, it depends on how things go over there.
the troops he's agreeing to bring home were already slated to come home. It's not like he's making some grand gesture. All he's done is agreed to bring us back down to 130,000 troops instead of 160,000 -- which is where we were before the surge.
the troops he's agreeing to bring home were already slated to come home. It's not like he's making some grand gesture. All he's done is agreed to bring us back down to 130,000 troops instead of 160,000 -- which is where we were before the surge.
BFD.
ok is that worse then keeping 160 or increasing to 200? it is what it is.
the troops he's agreeing to bring home were already slated to come home. It's not like he's making some grand gesture. All he's done is agreed to bring us back down to 130,000 troops instead of 160,000 -- which is where we were before the surge.
BFD.
Exactly...all he is doing is drawing this out to hand over to the next presidency.
As Obama is saying right now on CNN, this is not acceptable. We can start pulling our troops out now, 2 brigades per month, and increase our diplomatic efforts, as well as asking the UN to step up and step in, and we can get our troops out by the end of next year.
As Obama is saying right now on CNN, this is not acceptable. We can start pulling our troops out now, 2 brigades per month, and increase our diplomatic efforts, as well as asking the UN to step up and step in, and we can get our troops out by the end of next year.
Congress has to fight for this.....and so do we.
Write your congressmen....it can't hurt.
if I can play devil's advocate for a second, have you considered the possible consequences of that action. for example, Iraq falls into civil war and a powerful shiek becomes dictator and allows al queda to operate. or forget al queda, lets just the say first part happens and the Iraqi people fall under another brutal dictator
one positive I see as a possibility of a fast pullout, is a chance of having peace with Iran and actually having them become an ally. hardcore republicans will have you believe otherwise, but I think its possible.
this is bullshit. allowing troops that were already supposed to come home is no way to compromise or offer the olive branch to those members of congress that are against the war.
does anyone know what are the 36 other countries that allegedly have troops on the ground with us?
there is a way to end the war quickly. pelosi could simply not allow the troop funding bill to come to the floor for debate. yeah its a crappy move, but with no funding will w leave the troops in harm's way??
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
this is bullshit. allowing troops that were already supposed to come home is no way to compromise or offer the olive branch to those members of congress that are against the war.
does anyone know what are the 36 other countries that allegedly have troops on the ground with us?
there is a way to end the war quickly. pelosi could simply not allow the troop funding bill to come to the floor for debate. yeah its a crappy move, but with no funding will w leave the troops in harm's way??
yea, lets have something happen without giving the people elected to debate about it. its cool as long as it fits your agenda right?
one positive I see as a possibility of a fast pullout, is a chance of having peace with Iran and actually having them become an ally. hardcore republicans will have you believe otherwise, but I think its possible.
i think you are on to something here. i think the only way to stabilize the region and have a lasting peace is to get our military out of the region. with our troops on the iranian border, you can not force peace at the point of the gun. if you get the military out of there then you can open diplomatic avenues.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
yea, lets have something happen without giving the people elected to debate about it. its cool as long as it fits your agenda right?
its funny when the shoe is on the other foot isn't it?
the gop pulled that trick of not allowing things to come up for debate or a vote many times when they were in power. why can't the dems do it if its the only way that they can conceivably end the war???
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
gimmesometruth, I love you. I'm with you 100% here.
Jlew, Iraq is ALREADY in the midst of a civil war.
well I havnt been there but I disagree. we both can debate that to death but until one of us actually goes there, we cant say for sure. but from what I have seen and read I dont believe its civil war.
there arent lines drawn in the sand, or two sides with uniforms fighting each other. there are still areas with both sects live together. there are certain people trying to bring the two sides together. its not easy.
its funny when the shoe is on the other foot isn't it?
the gop pulled that trick of not allowing things to come up for debate or a vote many times when they were in power. why can't the dems do it if its the only way that they can conceivably end the war???
well if that happened, and i'm sure it did, thats bullshit and I agree with you.
i think you are on to something here. i think the only way to stabilize the region and have a lasting peace is to get our military out of the region. with our troops on the iranian border, you can not force peace at the point of the gun. if you get the military out of there then you can open diplomatic avenues.
Yes. Forget for the moment about our troops being in harm's way....if we weren't there and all of this chaos in Iraq just happened to have happened on its own, we would never think of sending 130,000 to 160,000 troops over there, would we? We would work with neighboring regions, instead, wouldn't we? We would make this a UN thing, wouldn't we?
Now.......remember that we ARE there. And why are we there? Who put us there? What were our reasons for going there in the first place?
you will never have iraq as an ally. maybe the ruling gov't that we eventually install will be friendly to us and work with us. but i do not think for one second that for all of those hundreds of thousands up to one million iraqis that we have killed, whatever the number, will their families and descendents ever forgive our country? will they ever respect us? i doubt it. they will wish death on every single one of us and our descendents.
i am really fearful that the war on terror will become a generational thing, passed down from father to son, to his father to son etc..
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
you will never have iraq as an ally. maybe the ruling gov't that we eventually install will be friendly to us and work with us. but i do not think for one second that for all of those hundreds of thousands up to one million iraqis that we have killed, whatever the number, will their families and descendents ever forgive our country? will they ever respect us? i doubt it. they will wish death on every single one of us and our descendents.
i am really fearful that the war on terror will become a generational thing, passed down from father to son, to his father to son etc..
nothing wrong with being optimistic, j......but the radicals still haven't forgiven us for lebanon......;)......i don't think this one is gonna go away once we're gone from there.....:)
nothing wrong with being optimistic, j......but the radicals still haven't forgiven us for lebanon......;)......i don't think this one is gonna go away once we're gone from there.....:)
I dont know if thats completely true. lebanon currently has a pro USA government and before the recent war with Israel, Beruit was becoming a popular mid east destination. now get back to AET
nothing wrong with being optimistic, j......but the radicals still haven't forgiven us for lebanon......;)......i don't think this one is gonna go away once we're gone from there.....:)
it sure as hell won't go away while we ARE there, either.
I dont know if thats completely true. lebanon currently has a pro USA government and before the recent war with Israel, Beruit was becoming a popular mid east destination. now get back to AET
hey don't you think i don't read the nonsense that is the amt....:p
and understand, i'm talking about the fundamentalists...al queda el at....i'm not talking about lebanon itself, but our military invlovlement there in the 80's.....and bu.....i want us out of there....i was responding to jlews comment....:)
all the president said in that speech is that we have to stay in iraq because we are afraid to come out of iraq. every fear mongering situation that he came up with is HIS fault, and he should be hung in public for putting this nation in the dilema we are in. he stood at that podium and told the world how bad he has fucked things up and what tremendous danger he has put us all in and then told us that we have to stay because we are afraid to leave. EVERY republican better go sign up TONIGHT and fight for what ONLY you believe in. if you voted for this clown you owe it to the entire nation...and the rest of the world to go help solve the nightmare you have gotten us into. it is not fair that people are dying every day because of you and your beliefs when you dont have what it takes to fight for your agenda yourselves. didnt george bush get 62,040,610 votes in 2004? why should we have to cut back troops when so many people are so thrilled by the idea of war? shameful. shameful. shameful. i would think an army of 62,040,610 couldprovide enough breathing room for the iraqi government wouldnt you?
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Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,122
you will never have iraq as an ally. maybe the ruling gov't that we eventually install will be friendly to us and work with us. but i do not think for one second that for all of those hundreds of thousands up to one million iraqis that we have killed, whatever the number, will their families and descendents ever forgive our country? will they ever respect us? i doubt it. they will wish death on every single one of us and our descendents.
i am really fearful that the war on terror will become a generational thing, passed down from father to son, to his father to son etc..
Turn that entire scenario around and think of Iraq being the United States. Would we have respect towards the country of Iraq killing a proportional amount of people here in the United States? Yes I would pass my disgust towards Iraq unto my children or they might just see it and feel it for themselves what was happening to their country.
Also I'm sure the US would want Iraq to implement an Iraqi President to rule over this country. Talk about puppet leadership would we be comfortable with another country Iraq choosing our leaders implementing rules and laws that benefit an occupying country the US?
This is something I could never live with, neither should the people of Iraq.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I do find it interesting that he and other war supporters "know" what will happen "if we leave"....yet they have no clue how long this will last, or how to end it, or even how to define it...
I liked how he lowered the bar again...saying we'll come home when we see "success"...I wonder, who defines "success"....?
Bu2
Posts: 1,693
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Or is that the name of a specific network?
I'm watching it....I'm seeing Bush speak nervously....as nervously as I would speak if pulled over by a state trooper after having about 9 beers....
Anyone else watching?
BFD.
ok is that worse then keeping 160 or increasing to 200? it is what it is.
Exactly...all he is doing is drawing this out to hand over to the next presidency.
Congress has to fight for this.....and so do we.
Write your congressmen....it can't hurt.
if I can play devil's advocate for a second, have you considered the possible consequences of that action. for example, Iraq falls into civil war and a powerful shiek becomes dictator and allows al queda to operate. or forget al queda, lets just the say first part happens and the Iraqi people fall under another brutal dictator
one positive I see as a possibility of a fast pullout, is a chance of having peace with Iran and actually having them become an ally. hardcore republicans will have you believe otherwise, but I think its possible.
does anyone know what are the 36 other countries that allegedly have troops on the ground with us?
there is a way to end the war quickly. pelosi could simply not allow the troop funding bill to come to the floor for debate. yeah its a crappy move, but with no funding will w leave the troops in harm's way??
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
yea, lets have something happen without giving the people elected to debate about it. its cool as long as it fits your agenda right?
Jlew, Iraq is ALREADY in the midst of a civil war.
i think you are on to something here. i think the only way to stabilize the region and have a lasting peace is to get our military out of the region. with our troops on the iranian border, you can not force peace at the point of the gun. if you get the military out of there then you can open diplomatic avenues.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
its funny when the shoe is on the other foot isn't it?
the gop pulled that trick of not allowing things to come up for debate or a vote many times when they were in power. why can't the dems do it if its the only way that they can conceivably end the war???
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
well I havnt been there but I disagree. we both can debate that to death but until one of us actually goes there, we cant say for sure. but from what I have seen and read I dont believe its civil war.
there arent lines drawn in the sand, or two sides with uniforms fighting each other. there are still areas with both sects live together. there are certain people trying to bring the two sides together. its not easy.
well if that happened, and i'm sure it did, thats bullshit and I agree with you.
Yes. Forget for the moment about our troops being in harm's way....if we weren't there and all of this chaos in Iraq just happened to have happened on its own, we would never think of sending 130,000 to 160,000 troops over there, would we? We would work with neighboring regions, instead, wouldn't we? We would make this a UN thing, wouldn't we?
Now.......remember that we ARE there. And why are we there? Who put us there? What were our reasons for going there in the first place?
Get the point now?
i am really fearful that the war on terror will become a generational thing, passed down from father to son, to his father to son etc..
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
maybe im too much of an optimist
nothing wrong with being optimistic, j......but the radicals still haven't forgiven us for lebanon......;)......i don't think this one is gonna go away once we're gone from there.....:)
I dont know if thats completely true. lebanon currently has a pro USA government and before the recent war with Israel, Beruit was becoming a popular mid east destination. now get back to AET
it sure as hell won't go away while we ARE there, either.
hey don't you think i don't read the nonsense that is the amt....:p
and understand, i'm talking about the fundamentalists...al queda el at....i'm not talking about lebanon itself, but our military invlovlement there in the 80's.....and bu.....i want us out of there....i was responding to jlews comment....:)
Turn that entire scenario around and think of Iraq being the United States. Would we have respect towards the country of Iraq killing a proportional amount of people here in the United States? Yes I would pass my disgust towards Iraq unto my children or they might just see it and feel it for themselves what was happening to their country.
Also I'm sure the US would want Iraq to implement an Iraqi President to rule over this country. Talk about puppet leadership would we be comfortable with another country Iraq choosing our leaders implementing rules and laws that benefit an occupying country the US?
This is something I could never live with, neither should the people of Iraq.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I watched it...pretty much the same ol' thing...
I do find it interesting that he and other war supporters "know" what will happen "if we leave"....yet they have no clue how long this will last, or how to end it, or even how to define it...
I liked how he lowered the bar again...saying we'll come home when we see "success"...I wonder, who defines "success"....?