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The Americans
lukin2006
Posts: 9,087
Now! Please take this in context, this was written in 1973, but much of what was written then still holds true today, however, a lot of other countries did help out with huricane katrina. To me the moral of the message is that the Americans still do plenty of good around the world, and most of it goes unmentioned. They also do Fuck Up as well, but what country doesn't. For me as a Canadian whether I agree with the US politics or not, I still consider our American neibhours our greatest friends and truely believe that Americans want the same things as most Canadians.
Even though Canadians and Americans may disagree about politics, the war in Iraq, Isreal and Lebanon and other such things, citizens of both countries need to remember the great thing about our two great nations is that we don't settle our difference's with weapons. we settle them at the negotiating table, sometimes these differences end up in trade tribunals and WTO courts for years thats still the better way to solve our problems.
And now a toast to my American friends.
The Americans
This editorial was broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair on 5 June 1973 as the United States was withdrawing from Vietnam. It later was printed in the U.S. Congressional Record. The text here is the one forwarded by Gretchen Phillips that set off the round of discussion on the Sinclair Discussion List. The original script is also available.
"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States. When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.
"When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped. The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, war-mongering Americans.
"I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC-10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International Airlines except Russia fly American planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon?
"You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon — not once, but several times — and safely home again.
"You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.
"When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the American who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke. I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.
"Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those. Stand proud, Americans!"
Even though Canadians and Americans may disagree about politics, the war in Iraq, Isreal and Lebanon and other such things, citizens of both countries need to remember the great thing about our two great nations is that we don't settle our difference's with weapons. we settle them at the negotiating table, sometimes these differences end up in trade tribunals and WTO courts for years thats still the better way to solve our problems.
And now a toast to my American friends.
The Americans
This editorial was broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair on 5 June 1973 as the United States was withdrawing from Vietnam. It later was printed in the U.S. Congressional Record. The text here is the one forwarded by Gretchen Phillips that set off the round of discussion on the Sinclair Discussion List. The original script is also available.
"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States. When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.
"When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped. The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, war-mongering Americans.
"I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC-10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International Airlines except Russia fly American planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon?
"You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon — not once, but several times — and safely home again.
"You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.
"When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the American who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke. I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.
"Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those. Stand proud, Americans!"
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
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As long as sixty years ago, when I first started to read newspapers, I read of floods on the Yellow River and the Yangtse. Who rushed in with men and money to help? The Americans did.
They have helped control floods on the Nile, the Amazon, the Ganges and the Niger. Today, the rich bottom land of the Misssissippi is under water and no foreign land has sent a dollar to help. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy, were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of those countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.
When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.
When distant cities are hit by earthquakes, it is the United States that hurries into help... Managua Nicaragua is one of the most recent examples. So far this spring, 59 American communities have been flattened by tornadoes. Nobody has helped.
The Marshall Plan .. the Truman Policy .. all pumped billions upon billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now, newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent war-mongering Americans.
I'd like to see one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplanes.
Come on... let's hear it! Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tristar or the Douglas 107? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all international lines except Russia fly American planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or women on the moon?
You talk about Japanese technocracy and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy and you find men on the moon, not once, but several times ... and safely home again. You talk about scandals and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everyone to look at. Even the draft dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, most of them ... unless they are breaking Canadian laws .. are getting American dollars from Ma and Pa at home to spend here.
When the Americans get out of this bind ... as they will... who could blame them if they said 'the hell with the rest of the world'. Let someone else buy the Israel bonds, Let someone else build or repair foreign dams or design foreign buildings that won't shake apart in earthquakes.
When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke. I can name to you 5,000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble.
Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.
Our neighbours have faced it alone and I am one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles.
I hope Canada is not one of these. But there are many smug, self-righteous Canadians. And finally, the American Red Cross was told at its 48th Annual meeting in New Orleans this morning that it was broke.
This year's disasters .. with the year less than half-over… has taken it all and nobody...but nobody... has helped.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
www.myspace.com/jensvad
On the other hand, I had a canadian 4th grade teacher. He would say stuff like, "The other teachers hate me because I'm Canadian," and "The canadian viewpoint is not a very popular one in America." He was the most liberal teach ever. He was super, super laid back.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Thank you for posting this.
Canadians are great people - they are the only reason I still go to, and suffer through, Bills games. I agree that we have much more in common than we do differences.
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Lets take the point of the second atom bomb dropping on Japan, for instance. Seems like a good place to start.
What does America do now, that so benefits the majority of the worlds population?
Personally, I can't see past the Cuban Missile crisis as the last significant positive thing the US has achieved, in Foreign Policy terms.
As an example, look at Overseas Aid. A world leader? Nope. Out of all the leading 'Industrial' nations, the US is last on that list. And most of USAID is given to Israel...and most of that has to be given back through Military contracts, through AIPAC.
But foreign policy-wise, it's a long time since they did anything out of the goodness of their hearts. Only nations doing that are the really small ones who can't bully around with their weight. US being one of the biggest in terms of bullying power, well, they are also one of the biggest in shitty use of it.
I dont see a need for listing a huge chunks of positive or negative things to make points. I just go by that large governments ruling a lot of people and having a lot of violent power are bastards in how they relate to the world. The US is one of them. The american people, on the other hand, there are a lot of good to say about them. Hell, you americans here at least. Well most of you anyway...
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Why not? I think it is important to know just what the average person, the average Republican voting, flag waving, American thinks, in simple terms, is so great about what we give to the world, or have given since 1945, or even earlier.
We say we export democracy, yet US Governments have consistently brought down, or helped to bring down, democratically elected governments all over the world, and put in power totalitarian dictatorships. Iran, Chile, Indonesia, Nicaragua, El Salvador etc etc etc.
So, what is good about US foreign policy? In fact, wahat is so good about US domestic policy? What have we done for the majority of the population, the working class poor, that has helped ease the suffering in their lives?
As an example, two words, New Orleans. An American city that is stil half th epopulation it was, that still has a hundred thousand people, poor, black people, for the vast majority, homeless and living in temporary shelters.
Now im sure most of the (neo-con) conservative minded, American posters on here are not black, nor poor, so will not be able to grasp the vast divisions in their own country. I'm alright jack, so fuck you kind o fmentality.
Not exactly. In terms of GNI, the US is the lowest. Actual dollar amounts? The highest. I'm sure you already know this. Not to mention, Iraq is currently the largest recipient of US foreign aid.
http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/31987.pdf
And even with Israel receiving a big chunk of US aid, US donations still comprise nearly half of all the ODA (Official Development Assistance) given out to the world's largest recipients of that aid.
http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
I am not black, but I at one time was extremely poor, and now I'm not. I just lost my job, but I can easily go out and make a decent living tomorrow. And that has everything to do with US government assistance and support.
Do you realize that fraud accounts for 51% of Orange County welfare recipients? The assistance is there, but the system is being abused by people who don't want to use it effectively - who don't want to change their lives for the better.
So, if you were poor, black...etc., where would you be better off living?
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
You know, that could also be an indication of insufficient assistance arrangements, so that people must abuse those in place to get by... Just a thought.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
cumulative effect guarantees that the U.S. will cease to resemble the country
outlined in the Constitution of 1787.
First, there will be a state of perpetual war, leading to more terrorism against
Americans wherever they may be and a spreading reliance on nuclear weapons among
smaller nations as they try to ward off the imperial juggernaut.
Second is a loss of democracy and Constitutional rights as the presidency
eclipses Congress and is itself transformed from a co- equal 'executive branch'
of overnment into a military junta.
Third is the replacement of truth by propaganda, disinformation, and the
glorification of war, power, and the military legions.
Lastly, there is bankruptcy, as the United States pours its economic resources
into ever more grandiose military projects and shortchanges the education,
health, and safety of its citizens.": Chalmers Johnson, Sorrows of Empire
as for the biggest recipient is iraq...
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/01/30/iraq.audit/
Audit: U.S. lost track of $9 billion in Iraq funds
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Nearly $9 billion of money spent on Iraqi reconstruction is unaccounted for because of inefficiencies and bad management, according to a watchdog report published Sunday....
to the amount we give...
http://cfrterrorism.org/policy/foreignaid.html#Q4
How do U.S. aid levels compare with those of other countries?
The U.S. foreign-aid budget as a percentage of gross national product (GNP) ranks last among the world’s wealthiest countries (at about 0.1 percent). In raw dollars, however, the United States is now the world’s top donor of economic aid, although for more than a decade it was second to Japan, which is far smaller and has been beset by economic woes. In 2001, the United States gave $10.9 billion, Japan $9.7 billion, Germany $4.9 billion, the United Kingdom $4.7 billion, and France $4.3 billion. As a percentage of GNP, however, the top donors were Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, and Sweden. The tiny Netherlands (pop. 16.3 million) gave $3.2 billion in 2001—almost a third of what America contributed.
Do Americans understand how much of the U.S. budget goes to foreign aid?
No. A 2001 poll sponsored by the University of Maryland showed that most Americans think the United States spends about 24 percent of its annual budget on foreign aid—more than 24 times the actual figure.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/fromthefield/actaidusa/111722294385.htm
US Foreign Aid Greatly Exaggerated, Says New Study
27 May 2005 19:23:00 GMT
Source: NGO latest
ActionAid International
The world's richest nations greatly exaggerate their aid to poor countries – with the US, the worst offender, giving only 0.02% of its income in real assistance, says a study released today by ActionAid International.
The report, which can be downloaded at http://www.actionaidusa.org/Action Aid Real Aid.pdf says that some two-thirds of the money donated by the world’s wealthiest countries is in actuality “phantom aid” that is not genuinely available for poverty reduction in developing countries.
Phantom Aid is aid that is diverted from poor nations for other purposes within bureaucratic aid systems. This includes aid that is, among all G7 donations:
• not targeted for poverty reduction, estimated to be worth US$4.9 billion
• double counted as debt relief, totaling US$9.4 billion
• overpriced and ineffective- Technical Assistance, estimated at US$13.8 billion
• tied to goods and services from the donor country, estimated at US$2.7 billion
• poorly coordinated and with high transaction costs, estimated at US$9 billion
• too unpredictable to be useful to the recipient – lack of data prevents an estimate
• spent on immigration-related costs in the donor country; totaling US$1.5 billion
• spent on excess administration costs; totaling US$0.4 billion.
In total, says the study, at least 61% of all donor assistance from G7 nations is phantom aid, with real aid in 2003 accounting for just US$27 billion, or only 0.1% of combined donor income. Nearly 90% of all contributions coming from the United States and France are considered phantom aid.
Says ActionAid International USA Policy Analyst, Rick Rowden, “what this comes down to is that the US government is spending the tax dollars of well meaning Americans on bloated, inefficient, and manipulative programs that do little to help the poor. This is inexcusable when you consider that a child dies every two seconds from hunger somewhere in the world.”
The report argues that the share of real aid is unlikely to increase unless a system of genuine accountability, which balances the interests of donors, recipients, and the poor, can be put in place.
In addition, the report calls for a new International Aid Agreement that will hold donor countries accountable. This agreement should include clear policies from developing countries on the criteria for accepting aid; mutual commitments from donor and recipient countries; national and international review forums; and new mechanisms for increasing the amount and predictability of aid to the world’s poorest countries.
“`Real’ aid does real good, and we need much more of it,” said ActionAid policy officer Romilly Greenhill. “The UN target is for donor countries to expend 0.7% of their income on aid, but shamefully the G7 are only one tenth of the way to that target when it comes to ‘real’ aid. If donors really want their aid to help people, they need to reach the ‘real’ 0.7% target by 2010 at the latest.”
Every day, 800 million people go to bed hungry, 30,000 children die of preventable disease, 100 million children are denied education. Three children a minute die due to unsafe water and sanitation. Approximately 30 children die a minute of hunger.
NOTES TO EDITORS
ActionAid International is a nonprofit organization bringing relief to some 13 million people in Africa, Asia, Latin America, and the Caribbean every year. Working hand-in-hand with 2,000 civil society partners, 90% of ActionAid's employees herald from developing countries.
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
You left out this crucial piece of the article:
The audit examined money coming from revenues from the United Nations' former oil-for-food program, oil sales and seized assets -- all Iraqi money.
Therefore, that particar story has nothing to do with US aid to Iraq.
Your second link does not contrast with what I've said. It discusses that as a percentage of total US income, the US is ranked the lowest, but still the highest in terms of actual dollar amounts.
Your third link is interesting, but the source is a charity organization. Could it be that it has its own ideas of what "useful purposes" are?
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
no it wasn't
'The $8.8 billion was reported to have been spent on salaries, operating and capital expenditures, and reconstruction projects between October 2003 and June 2004, Bowen's report concluded'
almost $9 billion missing in iraq in less than a year...the $ may have come from those revenues but it was lost while we were in control
'The money came from revenues from the United Nations' former oil-for-food program, oil sales and seized assets -- all Iraqi money. The audit did not examine the use of U.S. funds appropriated for reconstruction. (Full story)
Auditors were unable to verify that the Iraqi money was spent for its intended purpose. In one case, they raised the possibility that thousands of "ghost employees" were on an unnamed ministry's payroll.
"CPA staff identified at one ministry that although 8,206 guards were on the payroll, only 602 guards could be validated," the audit report states. '
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Your link has nothing to do with actual US dollars being donated to Iraq. Everything that you've quoted so far doesn't even come close to disproving that.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
no i didn't. i supplied 2 articles on how the US doesn't give as much $ as is thought and on 'phantom aid' I provided a 3rd one about us losing track of $8.8 billion...you acted as if it didn't matter that we lost almost $9 billion b/c it wasn't our money. i say it doesn't matter. it's also to show while money may be earmarked for iraq's reconstruction it ends up going places like this...bloated contracts and paying for 'ghost' employees. if you want i can provide you links for how the business school we built there costs almost twice as much to operate monthly than the harvard school of business or halliburton 'accidentally' (;) ) double billing us (and then getting bonuses)
that's all i said on iraq, that the money was wasted, i never said 'we don't give that much!
just like your article also says one of our biggest receivers of aid is colombia...a country whose military has a mountain of rape, murder, kidnapping, execution, theft of property at gunpoint, violence...charges agaisnt it....the majority of our aid goes to bloated contracts and waste or proping up corrupt regimes
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way