Good reasons to eradicate Hezbollah
brianjd
Posts: 201
wikidpedia "Ideology
In 1985, Hezbollah's founding manifesto[34] [9] laid out the goals and ideology as follows:
The solution to Lebanon's problems is the establishment of an Islamic republic as only this type of regime can secure justice and equality for all of Lebanon's citizens.
The Hizbullah organization views as an important goal the fight against 'western imperialism' and its eradication from Lebanon. The group strives for complete American and French withdrawal from Lebanon, including all their institutions.
The conflict with Israel is viewed as a central concern. This is not only limited to the IDF presence in Lebanon. Rather, the complete destruction of the State of Israel and the establishment of Islamic rule over Jerusalem is an expressed goal."
In 1985, Hezbollah's founding manifesto[34] [9] laid out the goals and ideology as follows:
The solution to Lebanon's problems is the establishment of an Islamic republic as only this type of regime can secure justice and equality for all of Lebanon's citizens.
The Hizbullah organization views as an important goal the fight against 'western imperialism' and its eradication from Lebanon. The group strives for complete American and French withdrawal from Lebanon, including all their institutions.
The conflict with Israel is viewed as a central concern. This is not only limited to the IDF presence in Lebanon. Rather, the complete destruction of the State of Israel and the establishment of Islamic rule over Jerusalem is an expressed goal."
______________
Irvine 1992, Las Vegas 1993, Mountain View 1994, San Diego 1995, Los Angeles 1996, Los Angeles 1998, Moutain View 1999, San Bernadino 2000, Los Angeles 2000, Irvine 2003, Irvine 2003, Moutain View 2003, Santa Barbara 2003, San Diego 2006, Los Angeles 2006, Santa Barbara 2006
Irvine 1992, Las Vegas 1993, Mountain View 1994, San Diego 1995, Los Angeles 1996, Los Angeles 1998, Moutain View 1999, San Bernadino 2000, Los Angeles 2000, Irvine 2003, Irvine 2003, Moutain View 2003, Santa Barbara 2003, San Diego 2006, Los Angeles 2006, Santa Barbara 2006
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
Irvine 1992, Las Vegas 1993, Mountain View 1994, San Diego 1995, Los Angeles 1996, Los Angeles 1998, Moutain View 1999, San Bernadino 2000, Los Angeles 2000, Irvine 2003, Irvine 2003, Moutain View 2003, Santa Barbara 2003, San Diego 2006, Los Angeles 2006, Santa Barbara 2006
Shouldn't the same demands be made of Israel?
YOu cant compare Hizbollah to Israel. And this isnt defending Israel and I certainly think they over reacted, but they are a recognized nation and nations are allowed to have a military and defense. Hizbollah is not a recognized nation and doesnt even operate in the same country that funds it. There is absolutely no defense you can give to legitimize Hizbollah as a military unit.
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
I said progressive within the middle east, which it most certainly is much more progressive and a part of the modern world than many middle eastern countries. I didnt say it was perfect, but it certainly isnt on the level of Saudi Arabia or Iran for example.
And i was correct. Hizbollah is a powerful organization that more or less operates on it's own accord inside another nation. They are more or less their own state, that happens to be within the borders of another.
Hizbollah does not operate "within the borders of another" state. It is a non-state actor. It does operate of it's own accord but it is not by any means "a state within a state". As such, it is completely illegitimate - if not illegal - (as it was in Afghanistan) to launch a war against a state in order to retaliate against a super-state actor that may operate within the borders of that state but is in no way controlled by or tied to that state.
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
It does operate within the borders of another nation, and it is funded and supported by Iran and Syria and more or less gives radical Islam a powerful voice inside of a moderate Muslim nation. I am not saying that they technically are a state, I am saying they more or less act as their own state, and have everybit as much power as the official government itself. And they have that power because of support from Iran and Syria.
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
I think we are more or less arguing semantics. But my point is, they are an organization that more or less operates the way they want, despite the fact that they arent the official government, yet at least militarily, have as much power as the official government.
Sometimes semantics are important. But this at least I agree with.
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
Irvine 1992, Las Vegas 1993, Mountain View 1994, San Diego 1995, Los Angeles 1996, Los Angeles 1998, Moutain View 1999, San Bernadino 2000, Los Angeles 2000, Irvine 2003, Irvine 2003, Moutain View 2003, Santa Barbara 2003, San Diego 2006, Los Angeles 2006, Santa Barbara 2006
I like this. talk of "eradicating" opposition never sit right with me. Hizbollah needs to be moderated and made into a pure political party.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
I agree with that, but the military faction of Hizbollah does not need to exist. I dont see a real chance in moderating a group built around instilling Sharia law and violence.
Happens all the time. Such groups may be heavy on religious symbolism, but history shows that they are pragmatic brokers in power-politics and realpolitik. IRA has moderated for instance, which was based on religious sectarianism from the outset. Don't confuse religion for the main issue, violence is always about power primarily, anything else secondarily.
Hizbollahs military wing needs dismantling, I ain't arguing that. But I doubt that the way to go about it is full-scale war and bombardment, as this summer's debacle has indicated.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
The same could be said of Israel. They are more or less an offsore U.S military and strategic base within the Middle East who operate by their own accord at America's bidding. They are basically a more established version of the taliban - I.e, a lawless terrorist state - and play their part in ruining the middle east.
"Israel has to accept the peace initiative of the Arab Summit of 2002 and return all the occupied territories and renounce all acts of aggression and then sign the peace treaties with all the other Arab countries and create the state of Palestine and give the (Palestinian) refugees the right of return. Yes, (then) Lebanon will sign the peace treaty, when everybody signs a peace treaty."
The problem is, Israel will never sign something that renounces their own acts of aggression. I think Lebanon, and every other state in the region, should simply say "sign the initiative of the Arab Summit of 2002". That plan outlines it very clearly.
Israeli action items:
"I- Full Israeli withdrawal from all the territories occupied since 1967, including the Syrian Golan Heights, to the June 4, 1967 lines as well as the remaining occupied Lebanese territories in the south of Lebanon."
"II- Achievement of a just solution to the Palestinian refugee problem to be agreed upon in accordance with U.N. General Assembly Resolution 194."
"III- The acceptance of the establishment of a sovereign independent Palestinian state on the Palestinian territories occupied since June 4, 1967 in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, with East Jerusalem as its capital."
Arab action items:
"I- Consider the Arab-Israeli conflict ended, and enter into a peace agreement with Israel, and provide security for all the states of the region."
"II- Establish normal relations with Israel in the context of this comprehensive peace."
How is Israel ruining the middle east anymore than Iran or Saudi Arabia or Syria? And Israel is a recognized government by the UN, so you cannot compare them to Hizbollah. Israel certainly can and should be criticized for many things, but Hizbollah is an organization with basically one purpose.
O.k, I was over-simplifying things. Just as a lot of people on here have been over-simplifying the status of Hizbollah in Lebanese society.
Completely wrong, sorry. That's just not accurate. The political relationship between the U.S. and Israel is a lot more complicated than this. Typically American response, though ... Even the American liberals think they are the centre of the universe.
Agree... what political party has their own militia? Leastwise, in a political system other than our own (Western Democracies).
The only thing that I would question is the legitimacy of Hezbollah... I mean, after all, there were a lot of people who voted them into power. What does this say about Democracy in the Middle East? I guess, there are a lot of people over there who agree with their political views.
In Iraq... we are seeing the same thing happening with the Shi'ite militias of Al Sadr. If, or when, he and/or his party win democratically held elections... it is Hezbollah all over again.
Hail, Hail!!!
Irvine 1992, Las Vegas 1993, Mountain View 1994, San Diego 1995, Los Angeles 1996, Los Angeles 1998, Moutain View 1999, San Bernadino 2000, Los Angeles 2000, Irvine 2003, Irvine 2003, Moutain View 2003, Santa Barbara 2003, San Diego 2006, Los Angeles 2006, Santa Barbara 2006
Most Islamophiles just will never see the point. UN 1559 passed by the international community, including the Europeans, called for the not disarming of all non-state militias in Lebanon. Not only was this resolution followed, the militias were allowed to received billions of dollars of weapons from State actors; Syria and Iran, by way of Lebanon. It is too bad that the Arab nations cannot get their rogue elements in line with International Law. This is the result. If Hizbollah should be allowed to keep its arms and militias, why shoudln't Al Qaeda?
Irvine 1992, Las Vegas 1993, Mountain View 1994, San Diego 1995, Los Angeles 1996, Los Angeles 1998, Moutain View 1999, San Bernadino 2000, Los Angeles 2000, Irvine 2003, Irvine 2003, Moutain View 2003, Santa Barbara 2003, San Diego 2006, Los Angeles 2006, Santa Barbara 2006
Irvine 1992, Las Vegas 1993, Mountain View 1994, San Diego 1995, Los Angeles 1996, Los Angeles 1998, Moutain View 1999, San Bernadino 2000, Los Angeles 2000, Irvine 2003, Irvine 2003, Moutain View 2003, Santa Barbara 2003, San Diego 2006, Los Angeles 2006, Santa Barbara 2006
The homegrown militias in the U.S. are usually staunchly anti-Government... they hate the government, yet, embrace the Constitutiuon that creates it. I think they want the place run the way they see it.
Hezbollah is a legitimate political faction... imagine the Democratic or Republican parties with their own armed militias. That's crazy... to us. Maybe in the Middle East, it's business as usual.
Hail, Hail!!!
The UN has always favored Israel, according to a study of Marc Weller, University of Cambridge found that israel has enjoyed a "virtual immunity" from enforcement measures such as an arms embargo and economic sanctions typically adopted by the UN against member states condemned for indentical violations against international law. (Finkelstein xviii) And for the first time in a very long time the UN has refused to bow to israel, they have said NO we will not do your dirty work (to disarm Hizbollah, a democratically elected party, now with increasing favor across the Mid-east) which you have failed at.