Quote:
Originally Posted by know1
Again, I'm not justifying any particular laws. The thread topic is about the prison population of the U.S. being out of proportion with the rest of the world. My explanation is that we have a larger capacity and better law enforcement.
Do you not agree that if you have more prisons, you can hold more people?
For example if you have two countries with identical population and identical crime statistics, but one of them has 10 prisons and can hold 100,000 prisoners and the other only has one prison and can hold 10,000 prisoners, which one will have more prisoners?
What I'm saying is the draconian and insanely overkill rockefellar drug laws is what allows the prison population to swell so much. We have all of those prisons because we can lock up minor drug offenders for a long time, when rapists, embezzlers, and serious felons are revolving in and out the door.
I don't see the gap as the problem. The problem is that too many of the "poor" criminals believe that they are owed something without having to work for it.
The drug problem in th U.S is a direct result of racism aimed at the African American population. Crack and cocaine are esentially the same drug, one mostly used by rich white men, the other used by poor black men. The difference is the punishement for possesion. It's 10 to one. Minimum mandatory possesion of any amount of crack is an automatic 5 years in prison. If a white guy has some coke, he's gonna get a slap on the wrist.But a young black man with a tiny rock will be there for a long time.
Where does the money for these prisons come from, you might ask? The government cuts the funding of schools and colleges to pay for the monsterous prison appetite. So then we have another generation of poor half educated adults who will get sucked into the system. This system is all propelled by politicians who need something to drive their political campaign during an election year. Be tough on crime, be tough on drugs and the sheep like masses of the American population will love you and feed your ballot box.What else would be political motivation for this you might ask? Felons can't vote in the U.S. It's called disenfranchisement. So all the black voices have been silenced. Politicians then say, well we don't have to worry about the black vote because...They can't vote anyway. now we can make all the fat white corporate bastards who fund are campaigns happy, by keeping the poor in their place and giving the rich more tax breaks. Who's going to stop us, we took away their voting rights.
Every drug law ever written down on the books in the U.S. has been racially motivated. Why do you think marijuana has a mexican name? Ever seen old black and white propaganda of the so called "china men" and their evil opium dens, ever heard of the opium wars? Google it, you might learn something.
And the scariest part of Americas so called "War On Drugs". Most of the men who go to prison for drugs have never been convicted of a violent offense. However, 25% of the people who go to prison for a non-violent drug offense are convicted a second time after release for commiting a violent offense. Why is this you might ask? Because of the very nature of prisons themselves, drug addicts are being put away for having a sickness, and while serving an unjust 5 year sentence for possesion they learn to be violent from the murderers, and rapists they are forced to live with. It's ignorant policy-lets cut the funding for higher education so that we can train people to be animals.
Meanwhile their fatherless children, stuck in poverty with no education, guidance, or role models, are gearing up to feed the monster again.
I don't mean for this to sound harsh, but the reality of it all truly is.
How do you know Danmac,what the total prison population of China or Russia is?
They don't let that information out.
Not to mention Iran and North Korea.
"they don't give a shit Keith Moon is dead,
is that exactly what I thought I read?"
How do you know Danmac,what the total prison population of China or Russia is?
They don't let that information out.
Not to mention Iran and North Korea.
We must idolize them. Imitation is the greatest form of flattery.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Part of the problem with the US is that they don't think their Gov't is "allright", ok, or "cool" even. I think most Americans don't feel safe in their own country, or as safe as more laidback countries. Primarily the education system is the key salvation imo. I think Canada is one of, if not THE best place to live right now, probably second to the Netherlands. I think a big part of it is the fact that we have winter. The great stupidity filter. If you don't know anything for yourself when it gets cold, you either freeze your ass and die, or make the means to get yourself in order to survive. It's quite the motivational experience.
Look what prohibition did to gang violence of the 20's. Take away prohibition...voila no more gangs. Canada is seen as the weed country, so is the netherlands, but why do both not need an army and why do we get along with rest of the world so well?
The war on drugs is a permit for youth to say screw education and go sell crack to make $500 a day. Why learn anything in school when you can have it all by hanging out on the street selling dope with your gang buddies?
Take away the gangs powers and you will see the turn around. Make pot "legal'ish" and thugs on the street won't make big bucks selling it, shooting you up and dying over it.
What are you afraid of more? getting shot up by some gang punk high on dope in your own neighborhood or some religious terrorist fighting for his god when you walk the streets late at night?
You gotta start somewhere. It's a catch 22. There's no legal age for drinking in many parts of Europe, but do you see the kids running around everywhere drunk all the time over there? Is that an epidemic?
Get the idea. The turn around is going to be gradual, but the US keeps going in the wrong direction on everything today it seems.
Which makes me wonder if they don't really know this already (like duh!) and are settting the framework for a police state which will create communistic dictation exactly like what you guys fought against in the past. Unfair taxing is communism, the price of gas can be seen as a communistic approach. Money is the crops and the US govt wants it all. They sure are spending it all, all the while clamping you guys down for the long haul.
It's fucked I up tell you...really fucked in the head. yet so many of you defend it as great policy....whoa...
The drug problem in th U.S is a direct result of racism aimed at the African American population. Crack and cocaine are esentially the same drug, one mostly used by rich white men, the other used by poor black men. The difference is the punishement for possesion. It's 10 to one. Minimum mandatory possesion of any amount of crack is an automatic 5 years in prison. If a white guy has some coke, he's gonna get a slap on the wrist.But a young black man with a tiny rock will be there for a long time.
Where does the money for these prisons come from, you might ask? The government cuts the funding of schools and colleges to pay for the monsterous prison appetite. So then we have another generation of poor half educated adults who will get sucked into the system. This system is all propelled by politicians who need something to drive their political campaign during an election year. Be tough on crime, be tough on drugs and the sheep like masses of the American population will love you and feed your ballot box.What else would be political motivation for this you might ask? Felons can't vote in the U.S. It's called disenfranchisement. So all the black voices have been silenced. Politicians then say, well we don't have to worry about the black vote because...They can't vote anyway. now we can make all the fat white corporate bastards who fund are campaigns happy, by keeping the poor in their place and giving the rich more tax breaks. Who's going to stop us, we took away their voting rights.
Every drug law ever written down on the books in the U.S. has been racially motivated. Why do you think marijuana has a mexican name? Ever seen old black and white propaganda of the so called "china men" and their evil opium dens, ever heard of the opium wars? Google it, you might learn something.
And the scariest part of Americas so called "War On Drugs". Most of the men who go to prison for drugs have never been convicted of a violent offense. However, 25% of the people who go to prison for a non-violent drug offense are convicted a second time after release for commiting a violent offense. Why is this you might ask? Because of the very nature of prisons themselves, drug addicts are being put away for having a sickness, and while serving an unjust 5 year sentence for possesion they learn to be violent from the murderers, and rapists they are forced to live with. It's ignorant policy-lets cut the funding for higher education so that we can train people to be animals.
Meanwhile their fatherless children, stuck in poverty with no education, guidance, or role models, are gearing up to feed the monster again.
I don't mean for this to sound harsh, but the reality of it all truly is.
This attitude is part of the problem. You are leaving criminals blameless for their actions with this sort of reasoning. While I agree that the drug laws are a mess in this country and should be more reasonable, this does not take away blame from those breaking the laws. Cutting funding in the educational bureaucracy is not to blame for violent offenses. If the children are not being properly educated in this country it is because we are more interested in making sure that they and their parents are not offended at any time. Discipline in schools is an antiquated notion because parents are not told the reality of the problems with their children for fear that that parent may sue the district for mistreating their child. The parents, and now the schools, are in the business of teaching their children that whatever they do, there should be no consequences because it is not their fault. It is always the fault of "the man" and they are all owed something from that "man" that is theirs for the taking.
Well, I guess are views are just inherently different. I believe that drug addiction is a sickness. Drug offenders need to be in rehab, not prison. I don't see how puting non-violent offenders with violent ones solves any part of the problem.
Drug courts also save $7 dollars to the dollar of the cost of incarceration(RAND CORP). That money could be earmarked for education...and help break the cycle. Yes, people do need to take responsibility for there actions. But locking them up is not the answer.
However, thanks for responding to my post. Since I am a "ghost", I expected silence.
How do you know Danmac,what the total prison population of China or Russia is?
They don't let that information out.
Not to mention Iran and North Korea.
Well over there, the statistics are distorted anyway. Most that even speak out against the govt, are shot on site, so... Imagine stealing? There goes the hands, and while wer'e at it, let's round up the family members for a few more shootings.
Dam, I love these "AMERICA" threads. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Well, I guess are views are just inherently different. I believe that drug addiction is a sickness. Drug offenders need to be in rehab, not prison. I don't see how puting non-violent offenders with violent ones solves any part of the problem.
Drug courts also save $7 dollars to the dollar of the cost of incarceration(RAND CORP). That money could be earmarked for education...and help break the cycle. Yes, people do need to take responsibility for there actions. But locking them up is not the answer.
However, thanks for responding to my post. Since I am a "ghost", I expected silence.
I can agree with this part of your post. Addiction is a sickness. Selling, though, is a crime. The possession should be strictly monitored to determine intent to sell. Sales of these drugs is the first part of the cycle that needs to be broken in order to heal the addicts since the sellers have the goal of creating more addicts. The choice that is made by the buyer is still their own personal choice, though, and should not go without consequences (a sliding scale for payment for forced rehab or something like that), although I agree that imprisonment is not the best option.
Also, you make good points. No amount of posts is too small to recognize a post.
Well, I guess are views are just inherently different. I believe that drug addiction is a sickness. Drug offenders need to be in rehab, not prison. I don't see how puting non-violent offenders with violent ones solves any part of the problem.
Drug courts also save $7 dollars to the dollar of the cost of incarceration(RAND CORP). That money could be earmarked for education...and help break the cycle. Yes, people do need to take responsibility for there actions. But locking them up is not the answer.
However, thanks for responding to my post. Since I am a "ghost", I expected silence.
A good viewpoint is a good viewpoint ghost or not
The US approach is off balance to say the least. However what's even worse is that they won't (and don't) admit their mistakes, and they need to take increasingly more drastic measures on society because of it - all to the eventual collapse of their nation. Has anything gotten better in the US in the last 30 years? The US approach to humanity as of late is dead wrong.
The examples of war, destruction, power, money, and greed they set are all wrong. I think the US gov't knows this all very well - too well. And that is what scares me. Let alone all the conspiracy controversy that surrounds them 24/7.
It resembles a communistic dictatorship. i.e. give us your tax dollars now to fund our quest for greed and power over other all other nations, or we will lock you up and take away your very life, and sentence you to a hell with bars.
The US govt needs ease up big time, start using their heads for a change, and take a serious international chill pill.
Comments
Originally Posted by know1
Again, I'm not justifying any particular laws. The thread topic is about the prison population of the U.S. being out of proportion with the rest of the world. My explanation is that we have a larger capacity and better law enforcement.
Do you not agree that if you have more prisons, you can hold more people?
For example if you have two countries with identical population and identical crime statistics, but one of them has 10 prisons and can hold 100,000 prisoners and the other only has one prison and can hold 10,000 prisoners, which one will have more prisoners?
What I'm saying is the draconian and insanely overkill rockefellar drug laws is what allows the prison population to swell so much. We have all of those prisons because we can lock up minor drug offenders for a long time, when rapists, embezzlers, and serious felons are revolving in and out the door.
The drug problem in th U.S is a direct result of racism aimed at the African American population. Crack and cocaine are esentially the same drug, one mostly used by rich white men, the other used by poor black men. The difference is the punishement for possesion. It's 10 to one. Minimum mandatory possesion of any amount of crack is an automatic 5 years in prison. If a white guy has some coke, he's gonna get a slap on the wrist.But a young black man with a tiny rock will be there for a long time.
Where does the money for these prisons come from, you might ask? The government cuts the funding of schools and colleges to pay for the monsterous prison appetite. So then we have another generation of poor half educated adults who will get sucked into the system. This system is all propelled by politicians who need something to drive their political campaign during an election year. Be tough on crime, be tough on drugs and the sheep like masses of the American population will love you and feed your ballot box.What else would be political motivation for this you might ask? Felons can't vote in the U.S. It's called disenfranchisement. So all the black voices have been silenced. Politicians then say, well we don't have to worry about the black vote because...They can't vote anyway. now we can make all the fat white corporate bastards who fund are campaigns happy, by keeping the poor in their place and giving the rich more tax breaks. Who's going to stop us, we took away their voting rights.
Every drug law ever written down on the books in the U.S. has been racially motivated. Why do you think marijuana has a mexican name? Ever seen old black and white propaganda of the so called "china men" and their evil opium dens, ever heard of the opium wars? Google it, you might learn something.
And the scariest part of Americas so called "War On Drugs". Most of the men who go to prison for drugs have never been convicted of a violent offense. However, 25% of the people who go to prison for a non-violent drug offense are convicted a second time after release for commiting a violent offense. Why is this you might ask? Because of the very nature of prisons themselves, drug addicts are being put away for having a sickness, and while serving an unjust 5 year sentence for possesion they learn to be violent from the murderers, and rapists they are forced to live with. It's ignorant policy-lets cut the funding for higher education so that we can train people to be animals.
Meanwhile their fatherless children, stuck in poverty with no education, guidance, or role models, are gearing up to feed the monster again.
I don't mean for this to sound harsh, but the reality of it all truly is.
They don't let that information out.
Not to mention Iran and North Korea.
is that exactly what I thought I read?"
How I choose to feel,...Is how I am.
We must idolize them. Imitation is the greatest form of flattery.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Look what prohibition did to gang violence of the 20's. Take away prohibition...voila no more gangs. Canada is seen as the weed country, so is the netherlands, but why do both not need an army and why do we get along with rest of the world so well?
The war on drugs is a permit for youth to say screw education and go sell crack to make $500 a day. Why learn anything in school when you can have it all by hanging out on the street selling dope with your gang buddies?
Take away the gangs powers and you will see the turn around. Make pot "legal'ish" and thugs on the street won't make big bucks selling it, shooting you up and dying over it.
What are you afraid of more? getting shot up by some gang punk high on dope in your own neighborhood or some religious terrorist fighting for his god when you walk the streets late at night?
You gotta start somewhere. It's a catch 22. There's no legal age for drinking in many parts of Europe, but do you see the kids running around everywhere drunk all the time over there? Is that an epidemic?
Get the idea. The turn around is going to be gradual, but the US keeps going in the wrong direction on everything today it seems.
Which makes me wonder if they don't really know this already (like duh!) and are settting the framework for a police state which will create communistic dictation exactly like what you guys fought against in the past. Unfair taxing is communism, the price of gas can be seen as a communistic approach. Money is the crops and the US govt wants it all. They sure are spending it all, all the while clamping you guys down for the long haul.
It's fucked I up tell you...really fucked in the head. yet so many of you defend it as great policy....whoa...
This attitude is part of the problem. You are leaving criminals blameless for their actions with this sort of reasoning. While I agree that the drug laws are a mess in this country and should be more reasonable, this does not take away blame from those breaking the laws. Cutting funding in the educational bureaucracy is not to blame for violent offenses. If the children are not being properly educated in this country it is because we are more interested in making sure that they and their parents are not offended at any time. Discipline in schools is an antiquated notion because parents are not told the reality of the problems with their children for fear that that parent may sue the district for mistreating their child. The parents, and now the schools, are in the business of teaching their children that whatever they do, there should be no consequences because it is not their fault. It is always the fault of "the man" and they are all owed something from that "man" that is theirs for the taking.
Drug courts also save $7 dollars to the dollar of the cost of incarceration(RAND CORP). That money could be earmarked for education...and help break the cycle. Yes, people do need to take responsibility for there actions. But locking them up is not the answer.
However, thanks for responding to my post. Since I am a "ghost", I expected silence.
Well over there, the statistics are distorted anyway. Most that even speak out against the govt, are shot on site, so... Imagine stealing? There goes the hands, and while wer'e at it, let's round up the family members for a few more shootings.
Dam, I love these "AMERICA" threads. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I can agree with this part of your post. Addiction is a sickness. Selling, though, is a crime. The possession should be strictly monitored to determine intent to sell. Sales of these drugs is the first part of the cycle that needs to be broken in order to heal the addicts since the sellers have the goal of creating more addicts. The choice that is made by the buyer is still their own personal choice, though, and should not go without consequences (a sliding scale for payment for forced rehab or something like that), although I agree that imprisonment is not the best option.
Also, you make good points. No amount of posts is too small to recognize a post.
A good viewpoint is a good viewpoint ghost or not
The US approach is off balance to say the least. However what's even worse is that they won't (and don't) admit their mistakes, and they need to take increasingly more drastic measures on society because of it - all to the eventual collapse of their nation. Has anything gotten better in the US in the last 30 years? The US approach to humanity as of late is dead wrong.
The examples of war, destruction, power, money, and greed they set are all wrong. I think the US gov't knows this all very well - too well. And that is what scares me. Let alone all the conspiracy controversy that surrounds them 24/7.
It resembles a communistic dictatorship. i.e. give us your tax dollars now to fund our quest for greed and power over other all other nations, or we will lock you up and take away your very life, and sentence you to a hell with bars.
The US govt needs ease up big time, start using their heads for a change, and take a serious international chill pill.
Oh but they're saving the world....NOT!