Chomsky: Israel is heading for destruction

rebornFixer

Be honest, now ... Does anyone actually view these ceasefires to be real gestures of peace by this stage in the game? Both sides have broken them on numerous occasions, and they are about as likely to end this conflict as the breaks between rounds are likely to end a boxing match. Does Israel need to withdraw from illegally occupied territories to end this thing? Absolutely. But why make a big deal of Hamas deciding that it needs a break?

canadajammer

Byrnzie wrote:

It just happens to be garbage spoken by a respected Jewish Rabbi and a backer of the settlers.

I won't bother responding to the rest of your post because it's just pure guff.

You are posting stuff, that may or may not be way out of context...that has nothing to do with what is going on in Israel. Why don't you start posting all the irrational and crazy things Islamic leaders have said. Does that make the Palestinian cause wrong? Of course not. You posting that Rabbi's quote (made over a decade ago) has nothing to do with the situation in Israel, or this thread. And it is remarkably clear you are spreading not just BS, but hate as well.

No 'guff' at all...

rebornFixer

Colorsblending9 wrote:

You are posting stuff, that may or may not be way out of context...that has nothing to do with what is going on in Israel. Why don't you start posting all the irrational and crazy things Islamic leaders have said. Does that make the Palestinian cause wrong? Of course not. You posting that Rabbi's quote (made over a decade ago) has nothing to do with the situation in Israel, or this thread. And it is remarkably clear you are spreading not just BS, but hate as well.

No 'guff' at all...

And I don't particularly want to touch Chomsky, either ... He brings Iran into the whole thing? WTF?? He's got some valid points about how to end this conflict, but his remarks about Iran are just dumb and uninspired. Yes, Israel, on the way to destruction because they dare mess with Iran. Maybe I am misunderstanding that part ...

canadajammer

Byrnzie wrote:

'Because Israel's voting system allocates seats purely on the basis of national votes for a party, not by district, extremist parties have substantial influence, especially since minority government in Israel is the norm rather than the exception. Moreover, extremists have had an important presence with the large Likud party. Just as there is no doubt that they do much, directly and indirectly, to shape Israeli policy. An Israeli commentator describes the current situation as follows:

"It is not difficult to imagine what the settlers' lobby means in a country with notoriously narrow parliamentary majorities. Though 70 percent of voters say in the polls that they support abandoning some of the settelments, 400,000 settlers and their right-wing and Orthodox supporters within Israel proper now control at least half the national vote. They pose a constant threat of civil war if their interests are not fully respected. At their core is a group of fanatical nationalists and religious fundamentalists who believe they know exactly what God and Abraham said to each other in the Bronze age".

Unfortunately, Israel is at least a democracy for it's citizens, and this tends to place responsibility for the situation on their shoulders.'

Civil War? When has their been civil war in Israel. I mean, in Palestine, Hamas has a violent take over of Fatah in the Gaza region. But that's okay I guess. It was Israel's fault right?

There are no civil war's in Israel.

There is actual, legitimate, full fledged democracy. It just seems weird to most people because its smack in the middle of the Middle-East.


Islamic countries don't have fanatics/radicals? The United States doesn't?

I would say that many Islamic countries, as well as the USA are controlled by a greater extent by these extremists/radicals/evangelicals/etc than Israel. Israeli politics are extremely complicated because their are so many different parties, with so many different interests.

Byrnzie

reborncareerist wrote:

And I don't particularly want to touch Chomsky, either ... He brings Iran into the whole thing? WTF?? He's got some valid points about how to end this conflict, but his remarks about Iran are just dumb and uninspired. Yes, Israel, on the way to destruction because they dare mess with Iran. Maybe I am misunderstanding that part ...

What remarks about Iran are you referring to exactly?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

reborncareerist wrote:

Be honest, now ... Does anyone actually view these ceasefires to be real gestures of peace by this stage in the game? Both sides have broken them on numerous occasions, and they are about as likely to end this conflict as the breaks between rounds are likely to end a boxing match. Does Israel need to withdraw from illegally occupied territories to end this thing? Absolutely. But why make a big deal of Hamas deciding that it needs a break?

But honestly now does anyone think Israel will stop building illegal settlements?

Does anyone think if Hamas gives up they will stop building settlements?

At least it shows one side is more human, and one side is more machine.

rebornFixer

Byrnzie wrote:

What remarks about Iran are you referring to exactly?

Is he somehow trying to draw a link between Israel's possible destruction and their threat to destroy Iran's nuclear capabilities, or am I reading way too much in?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Colorsblending9 wrote:

You are posting stuff, that may or may not be way out of context...that has nothing to do with what is going on in Israel. Why don't you start posting all the irrational and crazy things Islamic leaders have said. Does that make the Palestinian cause wrong? Of course not. You posting that Rabbi's quote (made over a decade ago) has nothing to do with the situation in Israel, or this thread. And it is remarkably clear you are spreading not just BS, but hate as well.

No 'guff' at all...

So you think what has been said and done 10 years ago no longer applies...

lol..

ok..whatever floats your boat.

hint: (it's worse now than 10 years ago)

rebornFixer

Upon re-reading, I think I read too much in ... He was basically saying at one point that Israel continues to piss of the entire Middle East, which would place them in grave danger should the U.S. withdraw its support.

Byrnzie

Colorsblending9 wrote:

Civil War? When has their been civil war in Israel. I mean, in Palestine, Hamas has a violent take over of Fatah in the Gaza region. But that's okay I guess. It was Israel's fault right?

There are no civil war's in Israel.

There is actual, legitimate, full fledged democracy. It just seems weird to most people because its smack in the middle of the Middle-East.


Islamic countries don't have fanatics/radicals? The United States doesn't?

I would say that many Islamic countries, as well as the USA are controlled by a greater extent by these extremists/radicals/evangelicals/etc than Israel. Israeli politics are extremely complicated because their are so many different parties, with so many different interests.

'They pose a constant threat of civil war if their interests are not fully respected.'

Israel settler leaders warn of civil war
http://www.salon.com/news/2004/09/10/isreal/

Israel on the road to civil war
By Uri Avnery
24 October 2004
http://www.redress.btinternet.co.uk/uavnery103.htm

Settlers Threaten Zionist Civil War
http://engforum.pravda.ru/archive/index.php/t-102780.html

http://www.counterpunch.org/avnery10252004.html
October 25, 2004
How the Settlers' Movement Have Infiltrated the IDF
On the Road to Civil War
By URI AVNERY

Byrnzie

reborncareerist wrote:

Is he somehow trying to draw a link between Israel's possible destruction and their threat to destroy Iran's nuclear capabilities, or am I reading way too much in?

I think he was referring to Israel's continued sabre rattling as a whole.

Edit: Just saw your last post.

canadajammer

Byrnzie wrote:

'They pose a constant threat of civil war if their interests are not fully respected.'

Israel settler leaders warn of civil war
http://www.salon.com/news/2004/09/10/isreal/

Israel on the road to civil war
By Uri Avnery
24 October 2004
http://www.redress.btinternet.co.uk/uavnery103.htm

Settlers Threaten Zionist Civil War
http://engforum.pravda.ru/archive/index.php/t-102780.html

http://www.counterpunch.org/avnery10252004.html
October 25, 2004
How the Settlers' Movement Have Infiltrated the IDF
On the Road to Civil War
By URI AVNERY

Constant threat of civil war? That is just not true, and civil wars have never happened in Israel.

- These articles are from 2004. Clearly, no civil war happened. There has never been a civil war in Israel, unlike some of the surrounding countries.
- Your articles come from ridiculous sources. Some are forums! Salon.com? Please...
- You are trying to tell me that Israel has had civil wars, but you send 4 articles from unknown, untrustworthy sources from 4 years ago!!! about a civil war that never happened!
- Even if your sources were legit, they speak of something that DID NOT HAPPEN, 4 years ago.

What civil war are you talking about?

Byrnzie

Colorsblending9 wrote:

Constant threat of civil war? That is just not true, and civil wars have never happened in Israel.

- These articles are from 2004. Clearly, no civil war happened. There has never been a civil war in Israel, unlike some of the surrounding countries.
- Your articles come from ridiculous sources. Some are forums! Salon.com? Please...
- You are trying to tell me that Israel has had civil wars, but you send 4 articles from unknown, untrustworthy sources from 4 years ago!!! about a civil war that never happened!
- Even if your sources were legit, they speak of something that DID NOT HAPPEN, 4 years ago.

What civil war are you talking about?

.....

Byrnzie

Israel Insider - Israel's Daily Magazine
http://web.israelinsider.com/views/5142.htm
'...Israel today contains two groups who share the same religion and language, but whose goals and aspirations differ. The vast majority (over 95%) of Israel's population live in pre-1967 Israel. A majority of them want to separate themselves from the Palestinians and for peace are willing to give up most of the land conquered in the Six-Day War.

A hard-core group of religious radicals, numbering less than 3 percent of the Jewish population of Israel and residing in the occupied areas, adamantly refuse to give up any of the land. They live in a world of their own, do as they please and only obey the laws of the State when it suits their purposes.

They have used all manner of arguments and rationalizations -- religious, mystical, ideological, and political -- to maintain the status quo. Keeping the land has become their supreme value, even superseding human life. And for many years, a series of Israeli governments have given in to their demands and poured tens of millions of dollars into the settlements.

Today, however, the situation has changed. The present Israeli government has agreed, in principle at least, to removing settlements and to the establishment of a Palestinian state. Despite their being in a minority and despite the wishes of the nation's majority, the radical settlers will not be moved and threaten civil war if forced to do so.

Notwithstanding their constant references to Judaism and Jewish "values," the radicals conveniently ignore the impact the occupation has had on Israeli society. History has shown that occupation brutalizes the occupiers, because they must resort to force to perpetuate their occupation. Over time this corrupts them and erodes their humanity and morality. This happened to the British, the French and the Americans and is happening to Israel. The rising levels of violence among Israelis over the past decade attest to this.

Given the present state of affairs, only two solutions are possible. One solution is that the settlements and settlers be allowed to remain where they are, only we withdraw our army and stop all funding. The millions of shekels saved can then be utilized to alleviate poverty, improve our educational and medical systems, increase pensions for the elderly, and repair and expand the nation's infrastructure.

The other solution is to call the settlers' bluff and give them the civil war they keep threatening to unleash. Looking at the two populations and conditions as they presently exist, the outcome seems clear. If Israel finds itself in this situation, it will be no different than what other countries have encountered as part of their becoming unified and viable nations. Israel, like the United States, cannot continue to exist as two separate and distinct entities.'

Times Online
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article404658.ece
Israelis fear civil war over Gaza
Sharon’s plan to pull out of disputed land meets a new form of resistance
'...On the eve of Tony Blair’s visit to the Holy Land, where Britain will offer to help to resolve the conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinians, the peace efforts now look set to provoke a new struggle within the Jewish state.

Last night the Yesha Council — an umbrella group representing 240,000 Jewish settlers in the West Bank and Gaza Strip — supported the call by a militant leader for a campaign of mass resistance.

“Any law that permits taking Jews from their homes is a law against the basic principles of the state of Israel,” the council’s leaders said in a statement. “It’s illegal. The disengagement plan is illegal and unethical. Removing Jews from their homes is against their human rights and anti-democratic.”

Bentzi Lieberman, the chairman of the council, insisted that the settlers were not calling for a civil war, but there were fears that this could be the outcome if his heavily armed members follow the advice of Pinchas Wallerstein, one of the more militant leaders.

“I am calling (on you) to break through army roadblocks, violate orders declaring territory (around settlements) a closed military area, and to barricade yourselves in your homes if necessary,” Mr Wallerstein wrote in a letter to fellow settlers.

“I’m not afraid to go to prison. I hope that like me, the masses will understand that this is a price we are obliged to pay in order to resist non- violently to the immoral crime of uprooting Jews from their houses by force.”

...Ever since the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, the Israeli leader murdered by a Jewish extremist for signing the Oslo peace agreement with the Palestinians, the spectre of civil strife has haunted peace efforts.

...Behind the defiant rhetoric, senior officials in his Government gave warning that the country was facing an “unprecedented” situation that could lead to open violence as the military begins plans to remove by force 8,000 settlers from Gaza.

“We are very worried about what is going on in Israel,” said one senior official. “The atmosphere is like the eve of a civil war . . . I have never witnessed an atmosphere like it. It has put Israel in turmoil.”

Jewish Telegraphic Agency
http://www.jewishaz.com/jewishnews/040702/settlers.shtml
Settlers threaten to resist
LESLIE SUSSER
'JERUSALEM - Prime Minister Ariel Sharon faces a new obstacle to his plan to evacuate settlements in the Gaza Strip and West Bank: Right-wing rabbis who have ruled that dismantling settlements contravenes Jewish law. The rabbis are calling on soldiers to disobey orders and on settlers to forcibly resist evacuation.

Given the potential for confrontation, the army and police are training Special Forces to carry out the evacuation, and there is even talk of building detention camps for settlers in case of mass resistance.

The Israeli right wing is split on the issue, and left-wing politicians are warning the rabbis against creating conditions like those preceding the 1995 assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, when some settler rabbis made religious rulings that seemed to condone violence against the prime minister.

No evacuation is scheduled to take place until next year, but the mood on both sides already is tense. In its worse-case scenarios, the defense establishment is not ruling out that some settlers will use guns against Israeli troops, and some legislators have warned settler leaders against following a path that could lead to "civil war."

The latest rabbinical ruling came from a former Ash-kenazic chief rabbi, Avraham Shapira, now head of the Rabbis' Union for the Complete Land of Israel and one of the National Religious Party's most influential spiritual leaders.

In answer to a question from a follower, Shapira came out unequivocally against any evacuation of Jewish settlers in Gaza. "It is clear and obvious that, according to the Torah, handing over parts of our holy land to non-Jews, including parts of Gush Katif, is a sin and a crime," Shapira wrote, referring to one bloc of Gaza settlements.

"Therefore, any thought or idea or decision or any semblance of action of any kind to evacuate residents from Gush Katif and hand the land over to non-Jews is opposed to halachah," or Jewish religious law, he wrote.

"Therefore, nothing must be done to assist the eviction from their homes and land, and everything done to prevent it."

Shapira's call followed a similar ruling by the Yesha rabbinical council, which declared that "no man, citizen, police officer or soldier is authorized to help in uprooting settlements."

But the rabbis aren't the only ones taking a militant stand. In a mid-June interview with a national religious publication, Uri Elitzur, editor of the settler journal Nekuda, declared that "the uprooting of a settlement is illegal and shocking and therefore justifies refusal to obey orders and violence, excluding the use of firearms."

Elitzur added that he would grant his "complete understanding to people who harm those who come to evacuate them."

Coming from a man who served as former Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's bureau chief and who ran the National Religious Party's last election campaign, sympathy for violent opposition sent shockwaves through the political system.

...The question is to what extent will settlers take their cue from National Religious Party leaders, and whether they will heed the moderates in their own leadership.

Bentzion Lieberman, chairman of the Yesha settlers' council, echoed Orlev when he said that "uprooting settlements and expelling Jews is a historical and moral crime, but refusing to obey an order is an existential threat to the State of Israel."

But will settlers listen to Lieberman or to the radical rabbis? And what about settler extremists who, even if a minority, are bound to oppose evacuation with violence and create considerable mayhem?'

Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz estimates that thousands of settlers will resist evacuation forcibly, and the IDF is taking into account the possibility that settlers will use firearms.

International Herald Tribune
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/03/29/news/israel.php
Settlers threaten violence after Knesset clears obstacle to Gaza withdrawal
Published: WEDNESDAY, MARCH 30, 2005
'...The Yesha Settlers' Council charged that Sharon "brutally prevented the possibility of allowing the people to decide" about a referendum, warning of a "violent confrontation and civil war."

Arieh Eldad of the National Union Party, an ultranationalist faction, said he was certain the confrontation would turn deadly and he held Sharon responsible. "He sentenced a lot of people to death, because he wants a national trauma," the lawmaker said. "The victims will be the settlers."'

canadajammer

Byrnzie wrote:

Israel Insider - Israel's Daily Magazine
http://web.israelinsider.com/views/5142.htm
'...Israel today contains two groups who share the same religion and language, but whose goals and aspirations differ. The vast majority (over 95%) of Israel's population live in pre-1967 Israel. A majority of them want to separate themselves from the Palestinians and for peace are willing to give up most of the land conquered in the Six-Day War.

A hard-core group of religious radicals, numbering less than 3 percent of the Jewish population of Israel and residing in the occupied areas, adamantly refuse to give up any of the land. They live in a world of their own, do as they please and only obey the laws of the State when it suits their purposes.

They have used all manner of arguments and rationalizations -- religious, mystical, ideological, and political -- to maintain the status quo. Keeping the land has become their supreme value, even superseding human life. And for many years, a series of Israeli governments have given in to their demands and poured tens of millions of dollars into the settlements.

Today, however, the situation has changed. The present Israeli government has agreed, in principle at least, to removing settlements and to the establishment of a Palestinian state. Despite their being in a minority and despite the wishes of the nation's majority, the radical settlers will not be moved and threaten civil war if forced to do so.

Notwithstanding their constant references to Judaism and Jewish "values," the radicals conveniently ignore the impact the occupation has had on Israeli society. History has shown that occupation brutalizes the occupiers, because they must resort to force to perpetuate their occupation. Over time this corrupts them and erodes their humanity and morality. This happened to the British, the French and the Americans and is happening to Israel. The rising levels of violence among Israelis over the past decade attest to this.

Given the present state of affairs, only two solutions are possible. One solution is that the settlements and settlers be allowed to remain where they are, only we withdraw our army and stop all funding. The millions of shekels saved can then be utilized to alleviate poverty, improve our educational and medical systems, increase pensions for the elderly, and repair and expand the nation's infrastructure.

The other solution is to call the settlers' bluff and give them the civil war they keep threatening to unleash. Looking at the two populations and conditions as they presently exist, the outcome seems clear. If Israel finds itself in this situation, it will be no different than what other countries have encountered as part of their becoming unified and viable nations. Israel, like the United States, cannot continue to exist as two separate and distinct entities.'

Times Online
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article404658.ece
Israelis fear civil war over Gaza
Sharon’s plan to pull out of disputed land meets a new form of resistance
'...On the eve of Tony Blair’s visit to the Holy Land, where Britain will offer to help to resolve the conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinians, the peace efforts now look set to provoke a new struggle within the Jewish state.

Last night the Yesha Council — an umbrella group representing 240,000 Jewish settlers in the West Bank and Gaza Strip — supported the call by a militant leader for a campaign of mass resistance.

“Any law that permits taking Jews from their homes is a law against the basic principles of the state of Israel,” the council’s leaders said in a statement. “It’s illegal. The disengagement plan is illegal and unethical. Removing Jews from their homes is against their human rights and anti-democratic.”

Bentzi Lieberman, the chairman of the council, insisted that the settlers were not calling for a civil war, but there were fears that this could be the outcome if his heavily armed members follow the advice of Pinchas Wallerstein, one of the more militant leaders.

“I am calling (on you) to break through army roadblocks, violate orders declaring territory (around settlements) a closed military area, and to barricade yourselves in your homes if necessary,” Mr Wallerstein wrote in a letter to fellow settlers.

“I’m not afraid to go to prison. I hope that like me, the masses will understand that this is a price we are obliged to pay in order to resist non- violently to the immoral crime of uprooting Jews from their houses by force.”

...Ever since the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, the Israeli leader murdered by a Jewish extremist for signing the Oslo peace agreement with the Palestinians, the spectre of civil strife has haunted peace efforts.

...Behind the defiant rhetoric, senior officials in his Government gave warning that the country was facing an “unprecedented” situation that could lead to open violence as the military begins plans to remove by force 8,000 settlers from Gaza.

“We are very worried about what is going on in Israel,” said one senior official. “The atmosphere is like the eve of a civil war . . . I have never witnessed an atmosphere like it. It has put Israel in turmoil.”

Jewish Telegraphic Agency
http://www.jewishaz.com/jewishnews/040702/settlers.shtml
Settlers threaten to resist
LESLIE SUSSER
'JERUSALEM - Prime Minister Ariel Sharon faces a new obstacle to his plan to evacuate settlements in the Gaza Strip and West Bank: Right-wing rabbis who have ruled that dismantling settlements contravenes Jewish law. The rabbis are calling on soldiers to disobey orders and on settlers to forcibly resist evacuation.

Given the potential for confrontation, the army and police are training Special Forces to carry out the evacuation, and there is even talk of building detention camps for settlers in case of mass resistance.

The Israeli right wing is split on the issue, and left-wing politicians are warning the rabbis against creating conditions like those preceding the 1995 assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, when some settler rabbis made religious rulings that seemed to condone violence against the prime minister.

No evacuation is scheduled to take place until next year, but the mood on both sides already is tense. In its worse-case scenarios, the defense establishment is not ruling out that some settlers will use guns against Israeli troops, and some legislators have warned settler leaders against following a path that could lead to "civil war."

The latest rabbinical ruling came from a former Ash-kenazic chief rabbi, Avraham Shapira, now head of the Rabbis' Union for the Complete Land of Israel and one of the National Religious Party's most influential spiritual leaders.

In answer to a question from a follower, Shapira came out unequivocally against any evacuation of Jewish settlers in Gaza. "It is clear and obvious that, according to the Torah, handing over parts of our holy land to non-Jews, including parts of Gush Katif, is a sin and a crime," Shapira wrote, referring to one bloc of Gaza settlements.

"Therefore, any thought or idea or decision or any semblance of action of any kind to evacuate residents from Gush Katif and hand the land over to non-Jews is opposed to halachah," or Jewish religious law, he wrote.

"Therefore, nothing must be done to assist the eviction from their homes and land, and everything done to prevent it."

Shapira's call followed a similar ruling by the Yesha rabbinical council, which declared that "no man, citizen, police officer or soldier is authorized to help in uprooting settlements."

But the rabbis aren't the only ones taking a militant stand. In a mid-June interview with a national religious publication, Uri Elitzur, editor of the settler journal Nekuda, declared that "the uprooting of a settlement is illegal and shocking and therefore justifies refusal to obey orders and violence, excluding the use of firearms."

Elitzur added that he would grant his "complete understanding to people who harm those who come to evacuate them."

Coming from a man who served as former Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's bureau chief and who ran the National Religious Party's last election campaign, sympathy for violent opposition sent shockwaves through the political system.

...The question is to what extent will settlers take their cue from National Religious Party leaders, and whether they will heed the moderates in their own leadership.

Bentzion Lieberman, chairman of the Yesha settlers' council, echoed Orlev when he said that "uprooting settlements and expelling Jews is a historical and moral crime, but refusing to obey an order is an existential threat to the State of Israel."

But will settlers listen to Lieberman or to the radical rabbis? And what about settler extremists who, even if a minority, are bound to oppose evacuation with violence and create considerable mayhem?'

Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz estimates that thousands of settlers will resist evacuation forcibly, and the IDF is taking into account the possibility that settlers will use firearms.

International Herald Tribune
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/03/29/news/israel.php
Settlers threaten violence after Knesset clears obstacle to Gaza withdrawal
Published: WEDNESDAY, MARCH 30, 2005
'...The Yesha Settlers' Council charged that Sharon "brutally prevented the possibility of allowing the people to decide" about a referendum, warning of a "violent confrontation and civil war."

Arieh Eldad of the National Union Party, an ultranationalist faction, said he was certain the confrontation would turn deadly and he held Sharon responsible. "He sentenced a lot of people to death, because he wants a national trauma," the lawmaker said. "The victims will be the settlers."'

Was there any actual resistance? Violent resistance that is, not protesting/lobbying.

Do you have any articles that describe civil wars that have taken place in Israel?

Do you have any articles from the past year or so...not 2004 and 2005 about the prospects of the 3% of Israel living in settlements wanting to perhaps, maybe, potentially start a civil war?


Why not post some articles about the ACTUAL civil war/fighting in Gaza recently, and its effects on the Palestinian people.

ucsber

I think you two need to take a vacation together. Gay cruise?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

ucsber wrote:

I think you two need to take a vacation together. Gay cruise?

whoever smelt it dealt it...

Byrnzie

Colorsblending9 wrote:

Was there any actual resistance? Violent resistance that is, not protesting/lobbying.

Yes there was.

http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=5160883

Colorsblending9 wrote:

Do you have any articles that describe civil wars that have taken place in Israel?

No, because no more settlements have been dismantled since then. They've just continued being built.

Colorsblending9 wrote:

Do you have any articles from the past year or so...not 2004 and 2005 about the prospects of the 3% of Israel living in settlements wanting to perhaps, maybe, potentially start a civil war?

No, because no more settlements have been dismantled since then. They've just continued being built.

Colorsblending9 wrote:

Why not post some articles about the ACTUAL civil war/fighting in Gaza recently, and its effects on the Palestinian people.

There was no civil war in Gaza. Fatah were kicked out of Gaza in a matter of a couple of weeks. Only a handful of people were killed.


Do you understand English? Read the following sentence again...

'They pose a constant threat of civil war if their interests are not fully respected.'

canadajammer

Byrnzie wrote:

Yes there was.



No, because no more settlements have been dismantled since then. They've just continued being built.



No, because no more settlements have been dismantled since then. They've just continued being built.



There was no civil war in Gaza. Fatah were kicked out of Gaza in a matter of a couple of weeks. Only a handful of people were killed.


Do you understand English? Read the following sentence again...

'They pose a constant threat of civil war if their interests are not fully respected.'

When was there full out civil war/violence amongst Israeli's? Especially violence that relates to what you posted in those articles from 4 years ago?


What do settlements have to do with civil wars being fought within Israel? And what does this have to do with you not being able to prove it?

I'm just wondering when there was an Israeli civil war. I can't seem to find this occurance.

You speak of a threat, but you backed it up with articles from questionable news sources from 4 years ago. Nothign concrete, no actual war. These threats you speak of have no impact on Israel.


"There was no civil war in Gaza. Fatah were kicked out of Gaza in a matter of a couple of weeks. Only a handful of people were killed."

75 Hamas Militants killed. 159 Fatah killed. 95 civilians killed. I'm sure their families appreciate their losses apart an unimportant handful...

That's 329 more killed than Israelis dying in civil wars...

Byrnzie

Colorsblending9 wrote:

When was there full out civil war/violence amongst Israeli's? Especially violence that relates to what you posted in those articles from 4 years ago?

I never said there was civil war in Israel.

Read the sentence again and try not to blink...

'They pose a constant threat of civil war if their interests are not fully respected.'

This quote is from an Israeli by the way.

Colorsblending9 wrote:

What do settlements have to do with civil wars being fought within Israel? And what does this have to do with you not being able to prove it?

If you really are this confused about it then I suggest you read the articles I posted above. They explain it clearly.

Colorsblending9 wrote:

I'm just wondering when there was an Israeli civil war. I can't seem to find this occurance.

That's because you're confused.

Colorsblending9 wrote:

You speak of a threat, but you backed it up with articles from questionable news sources from 4 years ago. Nothign concrete, no actual war. These threats you speak of have no impact on Israel.

The Times. The International Herald Tribune. Israel Insider - Israel's Daily Magazine. Counterpunch.

Colorsblending9 wrote:

"There was no civil war in Gaza. Fatah were kicked out of Gaza in a matter of a couple of weeks. Only a handful of people were killed."

75 Hamas Militants killed. 159 Fatah killed. 95 civilians killed. I'm sure their families appreciate their losses apart an unimportant handful...

That's 329 more killed than Israelis dying in civil wars...

There was no civil war. There was factional in-fighting sponsored by Israel and the U.S as has been proven. It didn't lead to all-out civil war.