Israel rejects peace offer...
Byrnzie
Posts: 21,037
..then shoots a 14 year old girl dead.
Saturday, 26 April 2008 09:23 UK
Girl killed in fresh Gaza clashes
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7368502.stm
Israeli forces have clashed with Palestinian militants during a raid on northern Gaza, hours after rejecting a truce offered by Hamas.
Palestinian doctors say a 14-year-old girl died and eight other people were injured in the raid, in Beit Lahiya.
They say the casualties included the girl's mother, but were mostly gunmen involved in clashes with the Israelis.
Reports say the target of the raid was local Hamas leader Hassan Marouf, but the Israeli army refused to comment.
The Associated Press news agency quotes witnesses as saying the Israelis seized him from his home amid heavy fighting.
The Israeli army said none of its troops were injured.
The raid began before dawn, with an Israeli undercover force entering northern Gaza backed by tanks and aircraft.
Hamas and Islamic Jihad militants fired at them with machine guns, mortars and homemade bombs.
On Friday Hamas proposed a six-month "period of quiet" in Gaza, which it said could then be extended to the West Bank.
Israel dismissed the proposal as a ruse to allow Hamas to "re-arm and re-group".
Saturday, 26 April 2008 09:23 UK
Girl killed in fresh Gaza clashes
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7368502.stm
Israeli forces have clashed with Palestinian militants during a raid on northern Gaza, hours after rejecting a truce offered by Hamas.
Palestinian doctors say a 14-year-old girl died and eight other people were injured in the raid, in Beit Lahiya.
They say the casualties included the girl's mother, but were mostly gunmen involved in clashes with the Israelis.
Reports say the target of the raid was local Hamas leader Hassan Marouf, but the Israeli army refused to comment.
The Associated Press news agency quotes witnesses as saying the Israelis seized him from his home amid heavy fighting.
The Israeli army said none of its troops were injured.
The raid began before dawn, with an Israeli undercover force entering northern Gaza backed by tanks and aircraft.
Hamas and Islamic Jihad militants fired at them with machine guns, mortars and homemade bombs.
On Friday Hamas proposed a six-month "period of quiet" in Gaza, which it said could then be extended to the West Bank.
Israel dismissed the proposal as a ruse to allow Hamas to "re-arm and re-group".
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
Good thing they have the US to give them the supoort they so desperately need.
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Whether they be European Jews or Israelis is just so offensive to some people, it's funny how some people find it completely tolerable when innocent Jewish lives are taken by Arabs but when innocent Arab life is taken they are blinded with hatred. They have a name for people like that don't they?
what name would that be? perhaps the same name as those that find it completely tolerable when innocent arab lives are taken by the isreali war machine?
blind support of either side is just ridiculous and uninformed.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
well, i guess i did have something to say.
but i wrote a massive blog about this years ago, and i just can't put much more effort into trying to do my tiny part to increase understanding, for myself and others.
Then maybe the Israeli's should start abiding by international law and get the fuck out of the occupied territories. Maybe then they'd get some sympathy.
So you are an International Lawyer are you? How bout some authority behind your bluster.....The reality is this. Occupied territory #1, Gaza, has been returned. The result was the same if not worse. Palestinians implode on each other. Civil War, more suicide bombs. More rockets. We don't hear about this shit happening in the other "Occupied Territory" of the West Bank because Fatah is in control there and they are truly willing to recognize Israel's right to exist. Your bullshit proclamation that Hamas has accepted Israel is just that. Bullshit. They told Jimmy Carter they would enter into a ten year truce. That would be great if this were, um, 1976! Last time I checked that was when Jimmy Carter was President. Further, ten year truce is not recognition of Israel. It's crap. Thus, as long as rockets and suicide bombers keep pouring out of Gaza Israel has a right to defend itself.
As for use of this phrase "occupied territory" this is more misinformation. Whose territory was Israel occupying??? In 1967 the West Bank and East Jerusalem was JORDAN. And Gaza was EGYPT. At no time was it Palestine! Stop fudging fact.
even the UN calls it the occupied territories...are you actually saying israel currently has NO illegal settlements??
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-+Obstacle+to+Peace/Palestinian+terror+since+2000/Suicide+and+Other+Bombing+Attacks+in+Israel+Since.htm
Suicide and Other Bombing Attacks in Israel Since the Declaration of Principles (Sept 1993)
2 this year - 9 dead
1 in 2007 - 3 dead
3 in 2006 - 15 dead
10 in 2005 - 24 dead, 3 killed no one
i wonder how many palestinians were killed in those 4 years?
2006
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/palestinian-death-toll-triples-this-year-430218.html
Palestinian death toll triples this year
he number of Palestinians killed by Israeli security forces in the West Bank and Gaza Strip tripled this year, according to an Israeli human rights organisation. B'Tselem said 660 Palestinians had been killed during 2006, including 141 minors. The report claimed that at least 322 of those killed were not fighters.
there, israel surpased the death count several times over for a 4 year period in just 1 fucking year, a year where there were only 3 attacks on israel
2008:
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/news/children-and-civilian-bystanders-gaza-death-toll-20080303
Children and civilian bystanders in Gaza death toll
Israeli military air strikes and artillery attacks on the Gaza Strip during the last few days have killed over 100 Palestinians, including dozens of children and other civilian bystanders. Three Israelis – a civilian killed by a rocket fired by a Palestinian armed group on 27 February and two soldiers – were also killed.
Many of the Palestinians killed were militants involved in attacks on Israel, but others were unarmed civilians taking no part in the hostilities, including some 25 children. The precise number of civilians killed is unclear and difficult to establish.
The Israeli chief of staff is reported to have claimed that 90 percent of those killed were militants, but the UN and other sources, including those in Gaza, suggest that as many as half of the dead were civilians. More than 250 other people, including scores of unarmed civilians, have been injured.
Israeli forces also destroyed houses and property across the Gaza Strip, including at least two medical facilities, before withdrawing on 3 March.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_446
United Nations Security Council Resolution 446 concerned the issue of Israeli settlements in the "Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem".[1] This refers to the Palestinian territories of the West Bank including East Jerusalem, Gaza Strip and the Golan Heights.
In the Resolution, the Security Council determined: "that the policy and practices of Israel in establishing settlements in the Palestinian and other Arab territories occupied since 1967 have no legal validity and constitute a serious obstruction to achieving a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East"
Parts of the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights remain under control of Israel as of July 2006.
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
who gave that message? i just don't see why ppl only complain about the poor israelis being killed or how they make it seem like they are under constant bombardment when their official military website says they aren't even attacked that much anymore....it's just hard justifying israel's actions when they kill faaaaaaaaar more palestinians
are you saying it's ok to kill them?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Israel's occupation of Gaza never really ended at all
http://www.zawya.com/story.cfm/sidDS030706_dsart6
'All Israel did last September was redeploy its troops from inside Gaza to the perimeter, and then bombard it. Israeli troops can still re-enter Gaza, as demonstrated by its latest invasion, and it controls its borders, airspace and sea space (and therefore access into and out of Gaza).
From the start of June to the kidnapping of the soldier on the 25th, 49 Palestinians were killed and 170 wounded, including women and children, according to the Palestine Red Crescent Society, causing great concern among human rights groups and threats of revenge from militant groups:
"We have decided to tell the occupier 'no more truce from today' in response to the bloodletting of our women, our children and our elderly. We will not suffer your repeated crimes in silence," the Palestinian groups responsible for the abduction said shortly before the soldier was taken captive.
Furthermore, the base from where the soldier was abducted is one of the locations from which Israel' has been relentlessly shelling the Gaza Strip, and just one day earlier, Israeli commandos had raided Rafah and captured two brothers, Mustafa and Osama Muamar.
"All of this is well known but did not make it to the front page," wrote Naftali Lavie, who served in an Israeli tank unit near Kibbutz Kerem Shalom, in Canada's Globe and Mail newspaper. "Can it be that Palestinian lives are nothing, Israeli lives everything? That Palestinian captives are nothing, Israeli captives everything?"
http://www.counterpunch.org/whitbeck12212006.html
'...the refusal of Hamas to "recognize Israel" or to "recognize Israel's existence" or to "recognize Israel's right to exist".
These three verbal formulations have been used by media, politicians and even diplomats interchangeably, as though they mean the same thing. They do not.
"Recognizing Israel" or any other state is a formal legal/diplomatic act by a state with respect to another state. It is inappropriate -- indeed, nonsensical -- to talk about a political party or movement, even one in a sovereign state, extending diplomatic recognition to a state. To talk of Hamas "recognizing Israel" is simply sloppy, confusing and deceptive shorthand for the real demand being made.
"Recognizing Israel's existence" is not a logical nonsense and appears on first impression to involve a relatively straightforward acknowledgement of a fact of life -- like death and taxes. Yet there are serious practical problems with this formulation. What Israel, within what borders, is involved? The 55% of historical Palestine recommended for a Jewish state by the UN General Assembly in 1947? The 78% of historical Palestine occupied by Israel in 1948 and now viewed by most of the world as "Israel" or "Israel proper"?
The 100% of historical Palestine occupied by Israel since June 1967 and shown as "Israel" on maps in Israeli schoolbooks? Israel has never defined its own borders, since doing so would, necessarily, place limits on them. Still, if this were all that were being demanded of Hamas, it might be possible for it to acknowledge, as a fact of life, that a State of Israel exists today within some specified borders.
"Recognizing Israel's right to exist", the actual demand, is in an entirely different league. This formulation does not address diplomatic formalities or simple acceptance of present realities. It calls for a moral judgment.
There is an enormous difference between "recognizing Israel's existence" and "recognizing Israel's right to exist". From a Palestinian perspective, the difference is in the same league as the difference between asking a Jew to acknowledge that the Holocaust happened and asking him to acknowledge that it was "right" that the Holocaust happened -- that the Holocaust (or, in the Palestinian case, the Nakba) was morally justified.
To demand that Palestinians recognize "Israel's right to exist" is to demand that a people who have for almost 60 years been treated, and continue to be treated, as sub-humans publicly proclaim that they ARE sub-humans -- and, at least implicitly, that they deserve what has been done, and continues to be done, to them. Even 19th century U.S. governments did not require the surviving Native Americans to publicly proclaim the "rightness" of their ethnic cleansing by the Pale Faces as a condition precedent to even discussing what reservation might be set aside for them -- under economic blockade and threat of starvation until they shed whatever pride they had left and conceded the point'.
As long as Israel continues to defy international law by remaining in the illegaly occupied territories, and as long as they continue terrorising the Palestinian people, then the Palestinians will continue to defend themselves and retaliate with rockets and suicide bombers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli-occupied_territories
'The West Bank and the Gaza Strip
Jointly often referred to as the Palestinian territories, or as "Ha-Shetachim" (The Territories) or Yesha —an acronym for YEhuda, SHomron, v'Aza, the Hebrew names of the territories. Both of these territories were part of former British Mandate of Palestine, and both have populations consisting primarily of Arab Palestinians, including historic residents of the territories and refugees who lost their homes in the territory that became Israel after the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.'
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/boyle.html
'The Fourth Geneva Convention applies to the West Bank, to the Gaza Strip, and to the entire City of Jerusalem, in order to protect the Palestinians living there. The Palestinian People living in this Palestinian Land are “protected persons” within the meaning of the Fourth Geneva Convention. All of their rights are sacred under international law.
There are 149 substantive articles of the Fourth Geneva Convention that protect the rights of every one of these Palestinians living in occupied Palestine. The Israeli Government is currently violating, and has since 1967 been violating, almost each and every one of these sacred rights of the Palestinian People recognized by the Fourth Geneva Convention. Indeed, violations of the Fourth Geneva Convention are war crimes.
So this is not a symmetrical situation. As matters of fact and of law, the gross and repeated violations of Palestinian rights by the Israeli army and Israeli settlers living illegally in occupied Palestine constitute war crimes. Conversely, the Palestinian People are defending themselves and their Land and their Homes against Israeli war crimes and Israeli war criminals, both military and civilian'.
I thought you weren't obsessed?? This looks, well, really fucking obsessed. Ad do your thirty other Israel threads that fortunately no one but me pays attention to.
of course not. and i wasn't talking to you
Baseball? The Hall of Fame?
Now am I someone else? Or is that people who share this same view always get banned on this board? And no, I don't know anything about any ban nor am I either of those people.
So you have nothing intelligent or even vaguely constructive to say? Great.
Now....I am going to let your 300th anti-Israel die the same death as all your others and no longer respond.
Damn! You've really hit me where it hurts this time!
Whatever will I do without you?
looks like byrnzie wasted his time giving facts to a child who doesn't know what to do with them...
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
You have to really get past the religous labels because they carry to much baggage, especially in this context. It doesn't realy matter whether they are jewish or not- it doesn't entitle any side to some kind of special privelage.