Israeli bomb kills UN observers

Scratchin a Letter

shiraz wrote:

what chance do we have here? don't you think these kind of automatic demagogic response, especially from such an important man will bring more hate?

Israel have bought on all the hate themselves. Annan is simply expressing the resentment that the rest of the world feels.

jsand

Scratchin a Letter wrote:

Israel have bought on all the hate themselves. Annan is simply expressing the resentment that the rest of the world feels.

Whatever misplaced resentment Annan has against Israel should be kept to himself instead of throwing out horrendous accusations, like the bombing was intentional, before even investigating the incident.

When the Palestinians make up bullshit like the "Jenin massacre," I can sort of accept it because they hate Israel and will do whatever they can to slander it. However, the Secretary General of the UN should refrain from such egregious lies.

my2hands

this was done on purpose... anybody that thinks otherwise just cant read between the lines... the US has done this in afgahnistan and iraq by purposely bombing media... it is flat out intimidation and murder

and that is a fact

jsand

my2hands wrote:

this was done on purpose... anybody that thinks otherwise just cant read between the lines... the US has done this in afgahnistan and iraq by purposely bombing media... it is flat out intimidation and murder

and that is a fact

Innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply to Israel - you assume the worst and then state it as fact. Pathetic.

danmac

jsand wrote:

Whatever misplaced resentment Annan has against Israel should be kept to himself instead of throwing out horrendous accusations, like the bombing was intentional, before even investigating the incident.

When the Palestinians make up bullshit like the "Jenin massacre," I can sort of accept it because they hate Israel and will do whatever they can to slander it. However, the Secretary General of the UN should refrain from such egregious lies.

The "Jenin Massacre" bullshit???

Oh dear, I think its time you were banned. Your colours are well and truly nailed tothe zionist mast.

Mods? To deny Jenin is to deny Auschwitz and Buchenwald.

You're a sick puppy.

jsand

danmac wrote:

The "Jenin Massacre" bullshit???

Oh dear, I think its time you were banned. Your colours are well and truly nailed tothe zionist mast.

Mods? To deny Jenin is to deny Auschwitz and Buchenwald.

You're a sick puppy.

You make me want to vomit.

jsand

Not that you would ever believe the truth, but here (from wikipedia):

Allegations of a Massacre
Rumors of massacres in Jenin swirled through Palestinian communities which were then echoed in the world press for several weeks, pitting world public opinion against Israel. [21] This was not helped as Israeli authorities prevented the international press from entering the refugee camp for two weeks.

Later inquiries by human rights groups and the UN commission did not find evidence of massacres by Israeli forces in Jenin.

[edit]
Inflated body counts
Both sides had inflated, or made overly cautious estimates of the number of dead in the refugee camp at the time. The Palestinian Authority did not provide an official count until around two weeks after fighting ended, although unofficial accounts perpetrated much of the inflation detailed before. Analysing the news reports finds a timeline of the inflated estimates which explain the reason for the hysteria caused in much of the world media (note that the following numbers include both civilians and armed combatants unless specifically stated otherwise):

April 3
Fighting begins
April 6
The Arab League hears in a speech where Nabil Shaath compares "Israeli actions in the West Bank towns of Jenin and Nablus to the 1982 massacres of hundreds of Palestinans"[22], probably referring to Israel's part in the Sabra and Shatila Massacre where possibly up to 3500 Palestinian refugees were killed by Phalangist Christian Militias, though the total number is disputed.
April 7
Saeb Erekat, a Palestinian minister for Local Government is quoted in the Washington Post making the first allegation of a massacre [23]
NBC news hears from Abdel Rahman that "over 250 Palestinians killed" [24]
April 10
Israel estimates 150 dead[25]
Saeb Erekat estimates 500 or more dead in the whole Israeli offensive[26]
April 12
Fighting ends
IDF spokesman Brigadier-General Ron Kitrey reports on Israeli Army Radio that there are apparently hundreds killed, the IDF quickly clarify he meant hundreds of casualties (killed or injured).[27]
An IDF source reportedly puts the number of dead at 250[28]
Palestinian Information Minister, Yasser Abed Rabbo, accuses Israel of digging mass graves for 900 Palestinians in the camp, whilst Secretary-General of the Palestinian Authority, Ahmed Abdel Rahman claimed that "thousands" had died, the most serious accusations of the episode
April 14
After the IDF reportedly estimate 250[29], and 188[30] a final figure of 45 is given[31]
April 30
Kadoura Mousa Kadoura, the director of Yasser Arafat's Fatah movement for the northern West Bank set the total dead to 56
Further investigation by the United Nations and international reporters found that 52 Palestinians were killed in the operation, 22 of whom were civilians. [32]

[edit]
Post-fighting investigations
Massacres refer not only to the numbers killed, but also to the method used.

In an article about the battle in Jenin, Time Magazine ruled out Palestinian allegations of massacre, writing that:

A Time investigation concludes that there was no wanton massacre in Jenin, no deliberate slaughter of Palestinians by Israeli soldiers. But the 12 days of fighting took a severe toll on the camp. [33]
As of 2006, this view is widely supported by the international community.

On May 2, IDF filmed adult Palestinians carrying out a mock funeral procession. The funeral was fake and the "body" was able to get up and walk. The tape was shown in the documentary The Road to Jenin by Pierre Rehov. On May 8, 2002, The Palestinian Society for the Protection of Human Rights and the Environment issued a press release [34] stating that it was only Palestinian children playing "funeral". Israeli groups reject this claim outright.

danmac

jsand wrote:

You make me want to vomit.

If i denied the massacres at Auschwitz and Buchenwald, Dachau and Treblinka, I can see how I would make you vomit.

But I didn't. and you're still a rabid anti-arab who dismisses the massacre of children at Jenin.

Yours is a sickness that can not be cured.

jsand

danmac wrote:

If i denied the massacres at Auschwitz and Buchenwald, Dachau and Treblinka, I can see how I would make you vomit.

But I didn't. and you're still a rabid anti-arab who dismisses the massacre of children at Jenin.

Yours is a sickness that can not be cured.

And you're an despicable anti-semite that can't back down even when faced with cold, hard TRUTH.

my2hands

jsand wrote:

And you're an despicable anti-semite that can't back down even when faced with cold, hard TRUTH.

so anyone that doesnt agree with israel is an "anti-semite" and anyone that dissents with the US government is "un-patriotic"

i hope you can see the error of this style of thought

my2hands

jsand wrote:

Innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply to Israel - you assume the worst and then state it as fact. Pathetic.

tell the families of the UN victims it is pathetic

danmac

jsand wrote:

And you're an despicable anti-semite that can't back down even when faced with cold, hard TRUTH.

Mods, why is this person still here?

Now I'm anti-semite. Good god, im all quivering and rabid about that one now...

For Jenin, see below, and be advised, its gruesome.

http://groups.msn.com/ISRAELISTATETERRORISM/thejeninmassacre.msnw

danmac

jsand wrote:

And you're an despicable anti-semite that can't back down even when faced with cold, hard TRUTH.

There is about as much truth in wikipedia as there is in the bible.

Are you stil here?

I thought the rules around here was to treat other users with respect?

Ive been called anti-semite, with no due cause, and I would like this person reported and banned.

jsand

danmac wrote:

Mods, why is this person still here?

Now I'm anti-semite. Good god, im all quivering and rabid about that one now...

For Jenin, see below, and be advised, its gruesome.

http://groups.msn.com/ISRAELISTATETERRORISM/thejeninmassacre.msnw

Do you have at least a semi-intelligent response to the fact that the international community overwhelmingly agrees that no massacre occurred?

Call in the mods to sensor the truth. Really weak.

jsand

danmac wrote:

Ive been called anti-semite, with no due cause, and I would like this person reported and banned.

If the shoe fits...

sourdough

Honestly, I do not know much about the Jenin Massacre at all, but I did google it and found this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1937048.stm

polaris

also ... they have admitted to bombing the UN post where the observers were killed despite being told and warned numerous times ...

El_Kabong

sourdough wrote:

Honestly, I do not know much about the Jenin Massacre at all, but I did google it and found this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1937048.stm

they also massacred a bunch of lebanese civillians in 82 and a bunch of egyptians during the 6 day war

El_Kabong

they said on the news today that the un says they repeatedly told the israelis to stop the bombing, it was too close, but they ignored it

ok, a 10 second search found this

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0607270199jul27,1,142541.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed

UN: Israel was told shells were too close

By Joel Greenberg
Tribune foreign correspondent
Published July 27, 2006


JERUSALEM -- In the hours before four United Nations peacekeepers were killed by Israeli shelling, a UN officer made repeated calls to the Israeli military and reported that shells were falling dangerously close to their position in Lebanon, UN officials said Wednesday.

Speaking in Rome after talks on the Lebanon crisis, Secretary General Kofi Annan said the shelling near the UN position started early in the morning Tuesday and went on until after 7 p.m., despite telephone calls to the Israeli army.

Lt. Col. John Molloy, the senior Irish officer in the UN observer force in south Lebanon, reported making six calls to his Israeli counterparts before the strike on the post, said Suzanne Coogan, spokeswoman for Irish Defense Minister Willie O'Dea.

"He warned the Israelis that they were shelling in very close proximity to the post, and his warnings were very specific, explicit, detailed and stark. Obviously those warnings went unheeded," Coogan said.

The Israeli bombing destroyed the UN outpost near the village of Khiam and killed the four unarmed observers from China, Austria, Canada and Finland as they sat in a bunker that collapsed, UN officials said.

China summoned the Israeli ambassador to demand an apology, and the attack was condemned by the foreign ministers of Finland and Austria.

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert apologized in a telephone conversation Wednesday to Annan, but he objected to Annan's charge that the attack was "apparently deliberate."

"The prime minister expressed Israel's deep regret over the mistaken killing of four UN peacekeepers," said a statement released by Olmert's office. "The prime minister said he has instructed the military to carry out a thorough investigation and that the results will be shared with the UN secretary general."

Annan had demanded a full investigation into the incident, which he called a "coordinated artillery and air attack on a long-established and clearly marked UN post."

Olmert's statement said "it was inconceivable that the error that was made would be defined by the UN as an action that seemed deliberate."

---

jogreenberg@tribune.com