Israeli shelling kills 18 in Gaza

Byrnzie

Wednesday, 8 November 2006, 08:43 GMT

Israeli shelling kills 18 in Gaza

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6127250.stm

At least 18 Palestinians have been killed and 40 wounded by Israeli tank fire in the northern Gaza town of Beit Hanoun, Palestinian sources have said.

Palestinian officials said a barrage of tank shells hit civilian homes, and women and children were among the dead.

Israel has expressed regret for the civilian deaths and says it is investigating the incident.

Palestinian leaders have called for an emergency UN Security Council meeting to force Israel to stop military raids.

The Palestinian prime minister, Hamas's Ismail Haniya, denounced the Israeli attack as an "awful massacre" and said talks on forming Palestinian unity government would be suspended.

Israeli Defence Minister Amir Peretz ordered the halt in artillery attacks and called for an urgent inquiry into the incident.

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert expressed regret over the killings and offered humanitarian assistance to the wounded.

Palestinian hospital officials said 13 of the dead belonged to the same family, and two of them were women and six were children.

The Israelis withdrew from the town on Tuesday following a major offensive centred in Beit Hanoun.

More than 60 Palestinians and an Israeli soldier were killed in a week-long operation that Israel says was aimed at stopping militant rocket fire into Israel from Gaza.

"It is the saddest scene and images I have ever seen. We saw legs, we saw heads, we saw hands scattered in the street," 22-year-old eyewitness Attaf Hamad told Reuters news agency.

"I saw people coming out of a house covered in blood. I started screaming to wake up the neighbours."

Palestinian leaders announced three days of national mourning throughout the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

A local Hamas leader has called for the group to resume suicide bombings inside Israel, a policy suspended two years ago by the main militant faction.

"Israel should be wiped from the face of the Earth. It is an animal state that recognises no human worth. It is a cancer that should be eradicated," said Ghazi Hamad, a spokesman for the Hamas-led government.

Shots have also been fired at the European Union office in Gaza City in an apparent retaliation, Palestinian authorities said.

Unidentified gunmen opened fire on the building and youths threw stones, Palestinian sources reported, adding no-one was injured in the attack.

Israeli forces also killed a 17-year-old civilian near Jabaliya refugee camp, hospital officials in Gaza said.

Earlier, in a separate incident, five Palestinians were killed in an Israeli army raid near the West Bank town of Jenin.

They were said to be members of the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, an armed offshoot of Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah movement.

The Israeli army said it had found large quantities of arms during its six-day operation throughout Beit Hanoun which ended 24 hours earlier.

But rocket attacks have continued to hit Israel. Following the Beit Hanoun deaths, militants fired rockets the nearby border town of Sderot, causing minor wounds to an Israeli woman.

moegossard

you party pooper. dems have swept both houses, that is all that matters in the world. please, discussion of massacres some other time. for now, let's focus on nancy pelosi.

Byrnzie

moegossard wrote:

you party pooper. dems have swept both houses, that is all that matters in the world. please, discussion of massacres some other time. for now, let's focus on nancy pelosi.

Whoops! Sorry! I was taking life seriously there for a moment!

But really, I wonder if the Israelis are carrying out these war crimes at this time because they know that much of America's and the U.K's attention is elsewhere?

DPrival78

Byrnzie wrote:

Whoops! Sorry! I was taking life seriously there for a moment!

But really, I wonder if the Israelis are carrying out these war crimes at this time because they know that much of America's and the U.K's attention is elsewhere?

i was thinking that too.. it's possible.. especially now that they have the israel-firsters back in power (lieberman, pelosi)

lgt

Byrnzie wrote:

Whoops! Sorry! I was taking life seriously there for a moment!

But really, I wonder if the Israelis are carrying out these war crimes at this time because they know that much of America's and the U.K's attention is elsewhere?

Have you ever watched 'Wag the Dog'?

By the way, there's an aphorism in Italian politics that goes: to think evil would be a sin, but you'd be often right.

Edited to add: the guy credited with said aphorism is Giulio Andreotti, many times Prime Minister in post-war Italy, also accused but then acquitted of collusion with the Mafia, of ordering a contract killing, etc.

Byrnzie

lgt wrote:

Have you ever watched 'Wag the Dog'?

I haven't seen it. I'll download it and check it out.

lgt

Byrnzie wrote:

I haven't seen it. I'll download it and check it out.

It was made in 1997... very forward-looking, as it were!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120885/

Cree Nations

Maybe the Israelis think that Hezbolah stole some of their olives and are keeping them hostage

Byrnzie

Cree Nations wrote:

Maybe the Israelis think that Hezbolah stole some of their olives and are keeping them hostage

That's feasible. Although I suspect that the figs are to blame this time!

Cree Nations

Byrnzie wrote:

That's feasible. Although I suspect that the figs are to blame this time!

I think the Israelis would use anything ..including bad hummus....as an excuse to go into Gaza...just to torment them.

polaris

any suicide attack will offset all these transgressions ... in the minds of many

Byrnzie

polaris wrote:

any suicide attack will offset all these transgressions ... in the minds of many

That's right. Becuase in the eyes of the Western world an Israeli life is worth 10 or 100 Palestinian lives.

Cree Nations

Byrnzie wrote:

That's right. Becuase in the eyes of the Western world an Israeli life is worth 10 or 100 Palestinian lives.

I would partially agree with this. I know many, many people who feel the same way as I do regarding Israel...and we live in the West. The West does not equal the U.S. It's unfortunate that they have a lot of weapons and force themselves as leaders of the West....maybe the Wild West.

miller8966

Israel made a mistake..i still support them.

Cree Nations

Oh my god, Im listening to the news and Israel just offered emeregency aid to the Palestinian authority.....mentioned right after the UN, Britain and Canada just condemned their attack......bastards.

Byrnzie

miller8966 wrote:

Israel made a mistake..i still support them.

A mistake? Shelling a residential area isn't 'a mistake', it's a war crime.

DPrival78

Byrnzie wrote:

A mistake? Shelling a residential area isn't 'a mistake', it's a war crime.

just add it to the long list..

when is israel ever going to be held accountable for their actions??

miller8966

DPrival78 wrote:

just add it to the long list..

when is israel ever going to be held accountable for their actions??

when the palestinians stop blowing themselves up on buses and supermarkets.

Cree Nations

miller8966 wrote:

when the palestinians stop blowing themselves up on buses and supermarkets.

took a while for someone to pull this out of the hat. When you have nothing to begin with and are forced into a corner I guess you do the most horrible things that will help the world recognize your plight. Suicide bombings are horrible but show me the diffence between that and dropping a bomb on a sleeping family?

Byrnzie

DPrival78 wrote:

just add it to the long list..

when is israel ever going to be held accountable for their actions??

When the U.S stops singularly vetoing every U.N resolution calling them to account for their actions.

rebornFixer

Cree Nations wrote:

took a while for someone to pull this out of the hat. When you have nothing to begin with and are forced into a corner I guess you do the most horrible things that will help the world recognize your plight. Suicide bombings are horrible but show me the diffence between that and dropping a bomb on a sleeping family?

Well, its not true that all desperate people become terrorists, and I think people excusing their ideologies with that sort of logic is a big problem, on par with continuing to vote for George Bush.
As for the sleeping family example ... If the bomb was dropped intentionally on them, then yes, its hard to see the difference. If it was an accident because there are a bunch of militants next door, not hiding behind their women for a change, then I think one has to concede that there is a difference in intent, at least in terms of a deliberate attempt to kill civilians.

Byrnzie

miller8966 wrote:

when the palestinians stop blowing themselves up on buses and supermarkets.

Anyway, why would someone want to blow themselves up on top of a supermarket?

rebornFixer

Byrnzie wrote:

Anyway, why would someone want to blow themselves up on top of a supermarket?

Walmart makes rational men desperate ... And "roll back prices" are not enough to undo the damage.

Byrnzie

reborncareerist wrote:

As for the sleeping family example ... If the bomb was dropped intentionally on them, then yes, its hard to see the difference. If it was an accident because there are a bunch of militants next door, not hiding behind their women for a change, then I think one has to concede that there is a difference in intent, at least in terms of a deliberate attempt to kill civilians.

This is a classic example of a well worn technique known in media circles as 'muddying the water'. Using such words as 'accident', 'militants', and 'difference in intent'. It's very successful, and distracts people from the issue at hand. The Israeli's used it not too long ago when trying to deflect criticism of their shelling of a crowded beach on which an entire family was wiped out. They made a press statement to say that there was no evidence they had shelled the beach at that precise time, -despite allevidence to the contrary - and that the Palestinians had probably planted explosives under the sand.

Byrnzie

reborncareerist wrote:

Walmart makes rational men desperate ... And "roll back prices" are not enough to undo the damage.

Cree Nations

reborncareerist wrote:

Well, its not true that all desperate people become terrorists, and I think people excusing their ideologies with that sort of logic is a big problem, on par with continuing to vote for George Bush.
As for the sleeping family example ... If the bomb was dropped intentionally on them, then yes, its hard to see the difference. If it was an accident because there are a bunch of militants next door, not hiding behind their women for a change, then I think one has to concede that there is a difference in intent, at least in terms of a deliberate attempt to kill civilians.

No that is not true that all desperate people become terrorists.....just desperate people who live beside Israel. With respect to a 'difference in intent', when it comes to war there are never any good intentions. Tragically, people die in war zones.
To slightly change the topic: Iraqi militants are killing American soldiers, they are not in America killing civilians...unlike the American military in Iraq.

rebornFixer

Byrnzie wrote:

This is a classic example of a well worn technique known in media circles as 'muddying the water'. Using such words as 'accident', 'militants', and 'difference in intent'. It's very successful, and distracts people from the issue at hand. The Israeli's used it not too long ago when trying to deflect criticism of their shelling of a crowded beach on which an entire family was wiped out. They made a press statement to say that there was no evidence they had shelled the beach at that precise time, and that the Palestinians had probably planted exposives under the sand.

"Muddying the waters" is not the same thing as making a rational argument and pointing out differences, no matter how much you might want to pretend otherwise. What issue is being obscured here? I agree that the Israeli government cannot simply dismiss EVERY instance of civilians being killed as "oh, there must have been militants nearby". Obviously some deliberate killings, on par with terrorist attacks, have occured. What's your goal, though? A black-and-white, simplistic conceptualization of what is going on over there, where Israel is 100% at fault? Since you're not a stupid guy, you must have another motive for espousing such a simplistic view of a complex situation. All I am saying is this: The Palestinians must accept partial responsibility for the situation with Israel. If they do not, this comflict can never end, and people will keep dying. Violent Islamic ideologies are a problem ... They give Israel an "out" ... Israel can basically do as much as it wants to make things difficult for Palestine, and they can do it because terrorism continues to exist over there. They can always play that card, because the suicide bombers and gunmen refuse to try anything besides violent but ineffectual resistance. What would happen if the terrorist card got taken away?

miller8966

Byrnzie wrote:

This is a classic example of a well worn technique known in media circles as 'muddying the water'. Using such words as 'accident', 'militants', and 'difference in intent'. It's very successful, and distracts people from the issue at hand. The Israeli's used it not too long ago when trying to deflect criticism of their shelling of a crowded beach on which an entire family was wiped out. They made a press statement to say that there was no evidence they had shelled the beach at that precise time, -despite allevidence to the contrary - and that the Palestinians had probably planted explosives under the sand.

yep keep getting your news from al-jazzera.

Im happy to know my tax dollars goes to support the IDF. As Bill Marh said Israel doesnt attack Egypt and Jordan because they signed a peace agreement with them, maybe the palestinians should try it..

or better yet keep getting your asses handed to you

MrBrian

lgt wrote:

Have you ever watched 'Wag the Dog'?

.

Good movie, saw it last year.

anyone not seen it? rent it now!

rebornFixer

Cree Nations wrote:

To slightly change the topic: Iraqi militants are killing American soldiers, they are not in America killing civilians...unlike the American military in Iraq.

Actually, because they've found attacks on Americans to be too difficult (with the exception of roadside bombs), they are killing other Iraqis, and sectarian hatred has become all mixed up with the idea of resistance to the U.S. I agree that an Iraqi militant who only fights U.S. troops is not a terrorist. If only, though. Iraq has no claim of moral superiority over its occupier.

Cree Nations

reborncareerist wrote:

Actually, because they've found attacks on Americans to be too difficult (with the exception of roadside bombs), they are killing other Iraqis, and sectarian hatred has become all mixed up with the idea of resistance to the U.S. I agree that an Iraqi militant who only fights U.S. troops is not a terrorist. If only, though. Iraq has no claim of moral superiority over its occupier.

Maybe the attacks are too difficult because the weaponry technology that Iraqi's have is basically the same stuff the soviets were using. Americans have the best of the best for weaponry..yet they cannot and never will win the war in Iraq. Iraqis are fighting for an ideal..however skewed it may be while Americans are fighting for a bowl of oil.