Couple Forbidden From Smoking In Their Home

tooferztooferz Posts: 135
edited November 2006 in A Moving Train
http://www.wlwt.com/health/10343373/detail.html

GOLDEN, Colo. -- A Colorado judge has upheld a homeowners association's order barring a couple from smoking in the town house they own.

Colleen and Rodger Sauve, both smokers, filed a lawsuit in March after their condominium association amended its bylaws last December to prohibit smoking.

"We argued that the HOA was not being reasonable in restricting smoking in our own unit, nowhere on the premises, not in the parking lot or on our patio," Colleen Sauve said.

The Heritage Hills No. 1 Condominium Owners Association was responding to complaints from the Sauves' neighbors who said cigarette smoke was seeping into their units, representing a nuisance to others in the building.

In a Nov. 7 ruling, Jefferson County District Judge Lily Oeffler ruled the association can keep the couple from smoking in their own home.

Oeffler stated "smoke and/or smoke smell" is not contained to one area and that smoke smell "constitutes a nuisance." She noted that under condo declarations, nuisances are not allowed.

The couple now has to light up on the street in front of their condominium building.

"I think it's ridiculous. If there's another blizzard, I'm going to be having to stand out on the street, smoking a cigarette," said Colleen Suave.

For five years the couple has smoked in their living room and that had neighbors fuming.

"At times, it smells like someone is sitting in the room with you, smoking. So yes, it's very heavy," said condo owner Christine Shedron.

The Sauves said they have tried to seal their unit. One tenant spent thousands of dollars trying to minimize the odor.

"We got complaints and we felt like it was necessary to protect our tenants and our investment," said Shedron.

The Suaves said they would like to appeal the judge's ruling but are unsure if they have the money to continue fighting. They said what goes on behind their closed doors shouldn't be other people's business.

"I don't understand. If I was here and I was doing a lawful act in my home when they got here, why can they say, 'OK, now you have to change,'" said Colleen Suave. "We're not arguing the right to smoke as much as we're arguing the right to privacy in our home."

Other homeowners believe, as with loud music, that the rights of a community trump the rights of individual residents. The HOA is also concerned that tenants will sue those homeowners for exposure to second-hand smoke and this could be a liability issue.

The couple said that they would like to unload their condo and get out of the HOA entirely, but they are not sure if the real estate market is right.

sweet...so one day we may have smoking section subdivisions!
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Goes to show you how well made condos are these days... :rolleyes:
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    I'd like to see subdivisions for people that cook with curry or onions. The smell irritates me. Some unidentified cooking substances cause me to vomit uncontrollably.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • JOEJOEJOEJOEJOEJOE Posts: 10,513
    tooferz wrote:
    http://www.wlwt.com/health/10343373/detail.html

    GOLDEN, Colo. -- A Colorado judge has upheld a homeowners association's order barring a couple from smoking in the town house they own.

    Colleen and Rodger Sauve, both smokers, filed a lawsuit in March after their condominium association amended its bylaws last December to prohibit smoking.

    "We argued that the HOA was not being reasonable in restricting smoking in our own unit, nowhere on the premises, not in the parking lot or on our patio," Colleen Sauve said.

    The Heritage Hills No. 1 Condominium Owners Association was responding to complaints from the Sauves' neighbors who said cigarette smoke was seeping into their units, representing a nuisance to others in the building.

    In a Nov. 7 ruling, Jefferson County District Judge Lily Oeffler ruled the association can keep the couple from smoking in their own home.

    Oeffler stated "smoke and/or smoke smell" is not contained to one area and that smoke smell "constitutes a nuisance." She noted that under condo declarations, nuisances are not allowed.

    The couple now has to light up on the street in front of their condominium building.

    "I think it's ridiculous. If there's another blizzard, I'm going to be having to stand out on the street, smoking a cigarette," said Colleen Suave.

    For five years the couple has smoked in their living room and that had neighbors fuming.

    "At times, it smells like someone is sitting in the room with you, smoking. So yes, it's very heavy," said condo owner Christine Shedron.

    The Sauves said they have tried to seal their unit. One tenant spent thousands of dollars trying to minimize the odor.

    "We got complaints and we felt like it was necessary to protect our tenants and our investment," said Shedron.

    The Suaves said they would like to appeal the judge's ruling but are unsure if they have the money to continue fighting. They said what goes on behind their closed doors shouldn't be other people's business.

    "I don't understand. If I was here and I was doing a lawful act in my home when they got here, why can they say, 'OK, now you have to change,'" said Colleen Suave. "We're not arguing the right to smoke as much as we're arguing the right to privacy in our home."

    Other homeowners believe, as with loud music, that the rights of a community trump the rights of individual residents. The HOA is also concerned that tenants will sue those homeowners for exposure to second-hand smoke and this could be a liability issue.

    The couple said that they would like to unload their condo and get out of the HOA entirely, but they are not sure if the real estate market is right.

    sweet...so one day we may have smoking section subdivisions!

    I agree with the HOA....if the smoke leaks to other units, its the same thing as the Suaves playing their music too loud....reduces the quality of life for other...only cigarette smoke can do more harm.

    Imagine how funny it would be if they had neighbors called "The Sophisticateds"

    :)
  • Dumbest thing I have ever read.

    If I were these people, I would have to bring up the fact that cig smoke can seep into other townhouses. That is piss-poor construction. Sounds like the HOA is trying to conceal that fact.

    Just buy a air purifier(sp?) and keep on puffing.
  • JOEJOEJOEJOEJOEJOE Posts: 10,513
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I'd like to see subdivisions for people that cook with curry or onions. The smell irritates me. Some unidentified cooking substances cause me to vomit uncontrollably.


    where ya been, my radical-thinking nemesis?
  • enharmonicenharmonic Posts: 1,917
    While I agree that cigarette smoke is fucking disgusting, I don't think that the HOA had the right to change the rules for current tennants. they didn't have any trouble taking their money when they bought the condo as smokers.

    Maybe they could buy them out at current market value? I bet that would change their tune quickly.
  • tooferztooferz Posts: 135
    enharmonic wrote:
    Maybe they could buy them out at current market value? I bet that would change their tune quickly.


    that wouldn't work because that would be the obvious intelligent decision.
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    JOEJOEJOE wrote:
    where ya been, my radical-thinking nemesis?

    I quit posting on this forum. I just had to comment on this topic. Suprisingly forums.pearljam.com is a good source of recent news.

    I stopped posting because this forum is full of prejudices that are condoned by the masses. There doesn't seem to be a lot of reasoned debate as suggested by the forum description. It's primarily emotional venting, given that underlying tone, I find it difficult to act appropriately myself.

    When my opinion is questioned on merely the basis that I do not have a formal education, I feel the validity of one's opinions stems from their academic acheivements regardless of their niche.

    My view that sociocultural prejudices are proliferated by the preconception that sociocultural prejudices exist, and by concluding discriminately that specific ethnities or skin pigmentations harbor these prejudices, ultimately illicits the provocation of said prejudices.

    It's in accordance with the psychological principles of information-processing and the ecological-systems viewpoint. That analysis is typically held to be either racist or fascist. However, I feel this is due to those prejudices.

    In other words, I think racism or prejudice in general primarily exists within the mind of the individual. By preconceiving the existance of prejudice as a normal function of society, one expects to find prejudice and they will typically find it, wether it truly exists or not.

    Regarding smoking and the rights of smokers in contrast to the desires of anti-smokers. Smoking is rightfully targetted as a bad substance, I just feel the methods used to absolve society of responsibility is producing negative effects. I am truly suprised advocates of smoking do not emphasize the numerous other hazards existant in society.

    As an example, pregnant mothers should not smoke, it may stunt the growth of their unborn child. However, other teratogens have exponentially worse effects, including Aspirin, Alcohol, Vitamin A (e.g. Accutane), Amphetamines, Antibiotics, Barbiturates, Sex Hormones. As well as various diseases and viruses, STDs, Chicken Pox, Cholera, Diabetes, Influenza, Malaria, Mups, Rubella (German Measels) and UTIs. They all have pretty adverse effects to unborn children. Smoking is however the suspected cause of SIDS.

    The emphasis is on smoking. You will not find a picture of a pregnant women with the phrase "Vitamin A kills babies" on a bottle of Accutane. Vitamin A can cause cleft palate, heart malformations and other serious birth defects.

    However, regardless of what I know about the biochemical effects of smoking, the addictive and habitual properties of it, as well as the typical thought process of a smoker. Any understanding I attempt to apply to it is merely seen as an "Excuse" by anti-smokers. Therefor, I don't see much point in discussing the topic in-depth.

    We are all fundamentally identical at birth, wether you invest your belief in innate purity, original sin or the trabula rasa (blank slate) theory. This means that some genetic and experiential variables gradually evolve our percepts and prejudices into our current personalities. So, if I shared the exact karyotype of an anti-smoker and endured the same experiential influences, I would have the same opinions they do.

    I hope that makes sense. It's not excusing smoking as a bad habit and a serious health threat to smokers and non-smokers alike. Rather, it's an attempt at applying reasoning and understanding to the conflict.

    My conclusion as I stated before, is that the majority of participants of this forum are just venting emotionally.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    Oh, my solution to this problem:

    I keep a towel at my door and I use the towel to cover the gap under the doorway. Six out of Six of the apartments in my building are smokers, however one of the tenants has a respiratory disease and her husband smokes outside. I use the towel mainly to keep the hallway fresh.

    I also keep a window open all the time. It gets pretty cold in the winter, but it's my habit, right?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • JOEJOEJOEJOEJOEJOE Posts: 10,513
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I quit posting on this forum. I just had to comment on this topic. Suprisingly forums.pearljam.com is a good source of recent news.

    I stopped posting because this forum is full of prejudices that are condoned by the masses. There doesn't seem to be a lot of reasoned debate as suggested by the forum description. It's primarily emotional venting, given that underlying tone, I find it difficult to act appropriately myself.

    When my opinion is questioned on merely the basis that I do not have a formal education, I feel the validity of one's opinions stems from their academic acheivements regardless of their niche.

    My view that sociocultural prejudices are proliferated by the preconception that sociocultural prejudices exist, and by concluding discriminately that specific ethnities or skin pigmentations harbor these prejudices, ultimately illicits the provocation of said prejudices.

    It's in accordance with the psychological principles of information-processing and the ecological-systems viewpoint. That analysis is typically held to be either racist or fascist. However, I feel this is due to those prejudices.

    In other words, I think racism or prejudice in general primarily exists within the mind of the individual. By preconceiving the existance of prejudice as a normal function of society, one expects to find prejudice and they will typically find it, wether it truly exists or not.

    Regarding smoking and the rights of smokers in contrast to the desires of anti-smokers. Smoking is rightfully targetted as a bad substance, I just feel the methods used to absolve society of responsibility is producing negative effects. I am truly suprised advocates of smoking do not emphasize the numerous other hazards existant in society.

    As an example, pregnant mothers should not smoke, it may stunt the growth of their unborn child. However, other teratogens have exponentially worse effects, including Aspirin, Alcohol, Vitamin A (e.g. Accutane), Amphetamines, Antibiotics, Barbiturates, Sex Hormones. As well as various diseases and viruses, STDs, Chicken Pox, Cholera, Diabetes, Influenza, Malaria, Mups, Rubella (German Measels) and UTIs. They all have pretty adverse effects to unborn children. Smoking is however the suspected cause of SIDS.

    The emphasis is on smoking. You will not find a picture of a pregnant women with the phrase "Vitamin A kills babies" on a bottle of Accutane. Vitamin A can cause cleft palate, heart malformations and other serious birth defects.

    However, regardless of what I know about the biochemical effects of smoking, the addictive and habitual properties of it, as well as the typical thought process of a smoker. Any understanding I attempt to apply to it is merely seen as an "Excuse" by anti-smokers. Therefor, I don't see much point in discussing the topic in-depth.

    We are all fundamentally identical at birth, wether you invest your belief in innate purity, original sin or the trabula rasa (blank slate) theory. This means that some genetic and experiential variables gradually evolve our percepts and prejudices into our current personalities. So, if I shared the exact karyotype of an anti-smoker and endured the same experiential influences, I would have the same opinions they do.

    I hope that makes sense. It's not excusing smoking as a bad habit and a serious health threat to smokers and non-smokers alike. Rather, it's an attempt at applying reasoning and understanding to the conflict.

    My conclusion as I stated before, is that the majority of participants of this forum are just venting emotionally.

    Well, I thought your response would be something along the lines of "Dude, I've busy!"
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    JOEJOEJOE wrote:
    Well, I thought your response would be something along the lines of "Dude, I've busy!"

    Well, I have been busy with multiple studies and trying to get my shower fixed.

    However, that isn't the primary reason for my absence. I've still been reading the forums and fighting the strong urge to comment on various topics. I just don't see the point anymore. I don't even know why I commented on this thread.

    I thought I'd have been banned again for violating the Acceptable Language Standard.

    "John Spartan, you have been fined one credit for violating the Acceptable Language Standard"
    ~ Demolition Man
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    Ooops, I was off a little bit...


    Lenina Huxley: Anything not good for you is bad, hence, illegal. Alcohol, caffeine, contact sports, meat . . .

    John Spartan: Are you sh**ing me?

    A computer: John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute.

    John Spartan: What the Hell is that?

    A computer: John Spartan, you are fined one credit . . .

    Lenina Huxley: Bad language, child play, gasoline, uneducational toys, and anything spicy. Abortion is also illegal. But, then again so is pregnancy, if you don't have a license.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • spongersponger Posts: 3,159
    wtf kind of crappy townhouses are they living in?
  • hippiemomhippiemom Posts: 3,326
    What a bunch of bullshit. When you buy a condo, or move into an apartment building, you know there are people on the other side of those walls. People who are that sensitive should not live in close quarters with others.

    The smell of pork cooking makes me physically ill, and it was even worse when I was getting chemo. My neighbors grill ribs all the time in the summer. Do I file a lawsuit? Hell no! I close my windows and light candles, because I choose to live in the city and I realize that involves being near other people who might not always be doing what I'd like them to do.

    I'm sick of all these busybodies. If you're that intolerant of the lifestyles of others, go get yourself a house in the boonies somewhere and no one will bother you.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • hippiemom wrote:
    What a bunch of bullshit. When you buy a condo, or move into an apartment building, you know there are people on the other side of those walls. People who are that sensitive should not live in close quarters with others.

    The smell of pork cooking makes me physically ill, and it was even worse when I was getting chemo. My neighbors grill ribs all the time in the summer. Do I file a lawsuit? Hell no! I close my windows and light candles, because I choose to live in the city and I realize that involves being near other people who might not always be doing what I'd like them to do.

    I'm sick of all these busybodies. If you're that intolerant of the lifestyles of others, go get yourself a house in the boonies somewhere and no one will bother you.

    Amen sista!
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • ""At times, it smells like someone is sitting in the room with you, smoking. So yes, it's very heavy," said condo owner Christine Shedron."

    I guarantee you this statement is an enormous exageration. People need to chill the fuck out about cigarettes.
    Come on pilgrim you know he loves you..

    http://www.wishlistfoundation.org

    Oh my, they dropped the leash.



    Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!

    "Make our day"
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Well, I have been busy with multiple studies and trying to get my shower fixed.

    However, that isn't the primary reason for my absence. I've still been reading the forums and fighting the strong urge to comment on various topics. I just don't see the point anymore. I don't even know why I commented on this thread.


    dude who gives a fuck what people say or feel about you. this is a message board. you are allowed to have any opinon you want, you know that. fuck em.
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    ""At times, it smells like someone is sitting in the room with you, smoking. So yes, it's very heavy," said condo owner Christine Shedron."

    I guarantee you this statement is an enormous exageration. People need to chill the fuck out about cigarettes.

    It may be unpleasant for their neighbours. Perhaps a compromise such as an air purifier or securing the doors would be more mutually pleasing. It doesn't appear that any other steps were taken to try and resolve the conflict.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus wrote:
    It may be unpleasant for their neighbours. Perhaps a compromise such as an air purifier or securing the doors would be more mutually pleasing. It doesn't appear that any other steps were taken to try and resolve the conflict.
    Yeah really.

    A compromise is..

    "Hey we can smell your cig. smoke through the walls"

    "Oh i'm sorry, we'll smoke out on the porch from now on"

    the end.
    Come on pilgrim you know he loves you..

    http://www.wishlistfoundation.org

    Oh my, they dropped the leash.



    Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!

    "Make our day"
  • barakabaraka Posts: 1,268
    Colorado and their HOAs! I'm not very fond of HOAs.I had a nightmare of an experience with my HOA in Denver. A few condos in my neighborhood had water damage from the beautiful lake they sat on and the entire neighborhood was forced to either pay an additional $480 (on top of the mortgage) a month or pay a lump sum of $10,000. We paid the lump sum, so we could sell it and get out. I could go on and on about the 'under-handed' ways of my HOA, like the fact that the president of the HOA was contracted to do the work on the water-damaged condos.



    I seems to me that these condos are not built very well, if neighbors can smell cigarette smoke. I've lived in apartments like that. I had no issues with the townhouse I owned in Denver, at least they were built well. It is not illegal to smoke in your home, but I believe the HOA could fine the couple if they did for 'breaking the rules'. If the couple refused to pay the fines, then the HOA could place a lean on the property. We used to call our HOA the mafia, pay them off to leave you alone. This is why I hate HOAs.
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • Ahnimus wrote:
    I quit posting on this forum. I just had to comment on this topic. Suprisingly forums.pearljam.com is a good source of recent news.

    I stopped posting because this forum is full of prejudices that are condoned by the masses. There doesn't seem to be a lot of reasoned debate as suggested by the forum description. It's primarily emotional venting, given that underlying tone, I find it difficult to act appropriately myself.

    When my opinion is questioned on merely the basis that I do not have a formal education, I feel the validity of one's opinions stems from their academic acheivements regardless of their niche.

    My view that sociocultural prejudices are proliferated by the preconception that sociocultural prejudices exist, and by concluding discriminately that specific ethnities or skin pigmentations harbor these prejudices, ultimately illicits the provocation of said prejudices.

    It's in accordance with the psychological principles of information-processing and the ecological-systems viewpoint. That analysis is typically held to be either racist or fascist. However, I feel this is due to those prejudices.

    In other words, I think racism or prejudice in general primarily exists within the mind of the individual. By preconceiving the existance of prejudice as a normal function of society, one expects to find prejudice and they will typically find it, wether it truly exists or not.

    Regarding smoking and the rights of smokers in contrast to the desires of anti-smokers. Smoking is rightfully targetted as a bad substance, I just feel the methods used to absolve society of responsibility is producing negative effects. I am truly suprised advocates of smoking do not emphasize the numerous other hazards existant in society.

    As an example, pregnant mothers should not smoke, it may stunt the growth of their unborn child. However, other teratogens have exponentially worse effects, including Aspirin, Alcohol, Vitamin A (e.g. Accutane), Amphetamines, Antibiotics, Barbiturates, Sex Hormones. As well as various diseases and viruses, STDs, Chicken Pox, Cholera, Diabetes, Influenza, Malaria, Mups, Rubella (German Measels) and UTIs. They all have pretty adverse effects to unborn children. Smoking is however the suspected cause of SIDS.

    The emphasis is on smoking. You will not find a picture of a pregnant women with the phrase "Vitamin A kills babies" on a bottle of Accutane. Vitamin A can cause cleft palate, heart malformations and other serious birth defects.

    However, regardless of what I know about the biochemical effects of smoking, the addictive and habitual properties of it, as well as the typical thought process of a smoker. Any understanding I attempt to apply to it is merely seen as an "Excuse" by anti-smokers. Therefor, I don't see much point in discussing the topic in-depth.

    We are all fundamentally identical at birth, wether you invest your belief in innate purity, original sin or the trabula rasa (blank slate) theory. This means that some genetic and experiential variables gradually evolve our percepts and prejudices into our current personalities. So, if I shared the exact karyotype of an anti-smoker and endured the same experiential influences, I would have the same opinions they do.

    I hope that makes sense. It's not excusing smoking as a bad habit and a serious health threat to smokers and non-smokers alike. Rather, it's an attempt at applying reasoning and understanding to the conflict.

    My conclusion as I stated before, is that the majority of participants of this forum are just venting emotionally.


    Man, I still love ya
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