See what this tells me is that, at least from this moment in your life, you have a history of making poor judgement calls. You then say that you have had a hard road. So, how was your "way" as good as a "traditional" way?
wow....could this be another example of MahoganySouless being judgemental once again
you know something, if cate's way worked out for the best than how could that be a poor call? it's certainly not for you or I to say or judge, that's only for cate to do.
I love how people start to swear and call names when they don't like the message being sent.
no. i just don't like YOU. i don't like how you BAIT people into an argument. i see you for what you really are, an arrogant, self opinionated, presumptuous, nasty TROLL.
no. i just don't like YOU. i don't like how you BAIT people into an argument. i see you for what you really are, an arrogant, self opinionated, presumptuous, nasty TROLL.
OK.
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
where did i say i had a hard road? what i said was raising my children has been the most difficult thing i've had to do.
ive never said i was perfect. and sure ive made some decisions that with hindsight i'd do differently. i'm not psychic so i cant say whether if i was married things would be different. and i never said my way was better than any other way. tis just the way i took. for better or for worse and ive dealt with it.
Oh come on, you know darn well that if had a partner who helped you raise your children and financially support them, you would have had a completely different life. Not to mention less problems.
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
because she admitted it didn't work out for the best when she stated
no me admitting something has been difficult does not equate to me saying it hasnt worked out for the best. nor does when i said i'd do things differently.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Oh come on, you know darn well that if had a partner who helped you raise your children and financially support them, you would have had a completely different life. Not to mention less problems.
i did have a partner. it didnt work out. twice.
as for less problems...what the fuck would you know? do not measure everyone's life against your own fairytale. evry person on this palnet is different. and just because your are still with your man(you are a woman right? ) doesnt mean we all should be or are all capable of being. i take people as they come. im not living their life and theyre not living mine.
i would rather be supported emotionally than financially so your argument about money making a difference wont fly with me.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
no me admitting something has been difficult does not equate to me saying it hasnt worked out for the best. nor does when i said i'd do things differently.
OK, so when you say you would "do things differently", that things have been "difficult" and that your child has experienced problems, you are standing by the idea that things have "worked out for the best" for your family?
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
OK, so when you say you would "do things differently", that things have been "difficult" and that your child has experienced problems, you are standing by the idea that things have "worked out for the best" for your family?
what doing things differently means is i'd be childless. it means i wouldnt have put myself in the situations i did. it means i would have made different decisions had i known other things that have arose since.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
where did i say i had a hard road? what i said was raising my children has been the most difficult thing i've had to do.
ive never said i was perfect. and sure ive made some decisions that with hindsight i'd do differently. i'm not psychic so i cant say whether if i was married things would be different. and i never said my way was better than any other way. tis just the way i took. for better or for worse and ive dealt with it.
that's really well said catefrances. i think everyone of us, at some stage, has made decisions that in hindsight we would do differently. it's how we make the most of what decisions we have made that count. i have come across some of your posts since i have been posting here, you speak of your children with such love and pride. i think your children are truly blessed to have a mother as wonderful as you.
If you really want an answer to this question. Don't look to the likes of Dunkman for an answer.
at least my answer is MY answer... all you ever do is quote people who are infinitely smarter than you.. but just for you i'll translate my first post
mental and socially instability + the ridiculous ease by which american people can acquire a gun + american society as a whole = a far greater chance of a school shooting happening than the rest of the developed world
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Children need structure, security and direction. They need male and female (mother and father) influence. Couple that with love and unlimited time and you have a recipe for successfull child rearing.
in a perfect world yes. i agree with what you are saying there apart from the mother AND father influence. what you have to understand is, that it's not always an option. what if the parents of the child are no longer in a relationship? what if there is abuse? what if the mother or father does not want to be a part of the childs life? what if a partner dies, is that going to make the surviving partner less able to be a good parent? so many what ifs. i'm assuming that you are suggesting the mother and father should live in the same house based on this 'partner' comment.
Oh come on, you know darn well that if had a partner who helped you raise your children and financially support them, you would have had a completely different life. Not to mention less problems.
try telling that to the deceased 9 year old boy who we had to pick up off the side of the road 11 nights ago. daddy was beating the shit out of mommy. he ran out of the house. witnesses say he was hysterical. he didn't look both ways before he crossed the road. you get the picture. heartbreaking.
no need for defence if your stupid country had no stupid right to bear arms in the first place.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
See what this tells me is that, at least from this moment in your life, you have a history of making poor judgement calls. You then say that you have had a hard road. So, how was your "way" as good as a "traditional" way?
I just feel the need to dissect your argument even though I believe your comments should be completely ignored because of their content.
No offense to catefrances in what I'm about to say.
Just looking at your argument logically. If you believe the "traditional" way is better and you believe catefrances has lead her life in a bad way, how can u say the "traditional" way is better if she has been raised the "traditional" way?
The real cause(s) aren't so simple, it's a collection of things, it seems most of his problems stemmed from leaving Korea and suffering from an anxiety disorder which was drastically worsened by the social environment at Virgina Tech. If this was a story about a young man, alive today, I'd think he might go on a massacre, just knowing what he's been through.
"Hey guys, Cho has a list of people he's going to kill at this school."
"Haha, what a loser, he's a pussy he'll never do it, fuckin' whiner."
This might be the kind of dialogue that went on, instead of a serious inquiry into Cho's problems and what fellow students could do to help. Like, stop picking on the poor guy, realize that mental illness is a fucking reality and not a choice. Don't be selfish little shitheads. That kind of thing. So, is the problem Cho's parents, or the parents of all the shitheads that gave him a hard time at school? Or is it ultimately nobody's fault, but a natural outcome of society that we need to address collectively? I think we need to individually take responsibility for the way we interact with other people and do our best to raise our children as informed and respectful of all human life.
I realize that the causes aren't so simple, that's why I said that a large part lies with the parents.
Also, in clarification, I was referring more to the high school shootings that have been much more common than the VT incident. After the child has left home and is in college living independently, the role of the parents is diminished significantly.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
in a perfect world yes. i agree with what you are saying there apart from the mother AND father influence. what you have to understand is, that it's not always an option. what if the parents of the child are no longer in a relationship? what if there is abuse? what if the mother or father does not want to be a part of the childs life? what if a partner dies, is that going to make the surviving partner less able to be a good parent? so many what ifs. i'm assuming that you are suggesting the mother and father should live in the same house based on this 'partner' comment.
These are all examples of why the majority of the blame (or whatever you want to call it) is on the parents. If they have kids, they should do what's best for them instead of being selfish.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
well that is indeed an interesting theory. young men's motivations for joining up for both world wars in my opinion were more to do about the patriotic propaganda than their homicidal tendencies. not that i'm saying this applies to everyone. back then the level of respect for the governments and the establishment at large was so much higher than it is these days. they believed what the government told them because they had no reason not to. these days we know governments are full of shit and couldnt lie straight in bed under the threat of punishment by death. we now know that democracy works only for those who can afford to buy it. but then that really isnt democracy at all is it?
oh and i think access to firearms plays a big part in school shootings.
Oh for sure most people who sign up for wars in the past did it for other reasons like the ones you suggested. But I am sure that there were a few who signed up so that they could kill Nazis or kill Redcoats or whoever. Especially since you could so that and also possibly be a hero. Most militaries don't play up the "go be a war hero" aspect any more. It would probably be a very small number but the percentage of students who decide to bring a gun to school and kill their classmates is also an extremely small number (even though that is not what the news networks would have you believe with the amount of coverage these things get).
School shootings happen because there are idiots in this world. Parents who don't know what is going on with their children. Kids being raised by nannies. Too much violence being poured into young minds. And easy access to guns.
even the best parents can produce a sociopathic child.
exactly.
parents have a huge effect on a child's life but you can't blame anything on them in situations like this.
especially with teenage kids there's so much going on that the parents might not know about. for all they know everything's fine. and even though it might not all be fine, the parents have no way of knowing that.
I think one of the main reasons why these shootings happen is the state of today's society.. it's pretty scary how so many young men (cause face it, it's mainly men) feel this bad. it's scary to realise what kind of thoughts "normal" kids can have.
"Don't be faint-hearted, I have a solution! We shall go and commandeer some small craft, then drift at leisure until we happen upon another ideal place for our waterside supper with riparian entertainments."
parents have a huge effect on a child's life but you can't blame anything on them in situations like this.
especially with teenage kids there's so much going on that the parents might not know about. for all they know everything's fine. and even though it might not all be fine, the parents have no way of knowing that.
I think one of the main reasons why these shootings happen is the state of today's society.. it's pretty scary how so many young men (cause face it, it's mainly men) feel this bad. it's scary to realise what kind of thoughts "normal" kids can have.
If only you girls didn't make it so hard for us guys to have fun! You see girls are to blame!
If only you girls didn't make it so hard for us guys to have fun! You see girls are to blame!
if only you guys wouldn't find it so damn difficult to admit that you're not feeling well! :rolleyes:
(:p)
"Don't be faint-hearted, I have a solution! We shall go and commandeer some small craft, then drift at leisure until we happen upon another ideal place for our waterside supper with riparian entertainments."
If we did admit most girls would look at us as weaklings
who cares about most girls? you can only marry one at a time anyway.
"Don't be faint-hearted, I have a solution! We shall go and commandeer some small craft, then drift at leisure until we happen upon another ideal place for our waterside supper with riparian entertainments."
That is exactly it. Parents of these children are absent, disinterested and selfish. A sad reality of todays societal breakdown.
The argument that poverty or social inadequacies cause these situations is a misdirected excuse. Throughout history poor children and misfits have grown up without resorting to violence. Why? Because they had direction at home. They have loving in tact traditional family lives. They were taught values, standards and morals. Today kids are taught to balk at authority, greed, selfishness and calous disregard for others.
Until society restores the family unit and its responsibilities, these things are just going to continue to get worse.
When a child has no reason to behave, they wont.
That's not true. You didn't read the information I've posted. Cho's parents did a lot to help him, but they failed. They tried and we need to look at the bigger picture. Why are we discussing "Why school shootings happen?" according to this lot "Everyone has free-will" and you simply cannot answer the question if they have free-will. But since we are talking as if the children do not have free-will and we are looking for external and internal causes for the behavior, then siphoning that blame onto the parents is a fallacy, since they don't have free-will either. But, you also said "A sad reality of todays societal breakdown." which might be closer to the truth. Soceity is a collection of all the inhabitants of a nation, that means us, that makes us responsible. We don't have free-will either, from a 3rd person, cosmic, causality perspective. However, from a "What are we gonna do" perspective, we can individually resist societal trends that cause violence.
I can assure you one of those trends is in-group/out-group hostility, which is a natural animal behavior.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Comments
wow....could this be another example of MahoganySouless being judgemental once again
you know something, if cate's way worked out for the best than how could that be a poor call? it's certainly not for you or I to say or judge, that's only for cate to do.
angels share laughter
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
no me admitting something has been difficult does not equate to me saying it hasnt worked out for the best. nor does when i said i'd do things differently.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i did have a partner. it didnt work out. twice.
as for less problems...what the fuck would you know? do not measure everyone's life against your own fairytale. evry person on this palnet is different. and just because your are still with your man(you are a woman right? ) doesnt mean we all should be or are all capable of being. i take people as they come. im not living their life and theyre not living mine.
i would rather be supported emotionally than financially so your argument about money making a difference wont fly with me.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
in no way does what she said imply that the alternatives would've have been better.
all she said was that it's been difficult and she hasn't loved every second of it, not that it hasn't worked out for the best.
angels share laughter
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
what doing things differently means is i'd be childless. it means i wouldnt have put myself in the situations i did. it means i would have made different decisions had i known other things that have arose since.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
at least my answer is MY answer... all you ever do is quote people who are infinitely smarter than you.. but just for you i'll translate my first post
mental and socially instability + the ridiculous ease by which american people can acquire a gun + american society as a whole = a far greater chance of a school shooting happening than the rest of the developed world
try telling that to the deceased 9 year old boy who we had to pick up off the side of the road 11 nights ago. daddy was beating the shit out of mommy. he ran out of the house. witnesses say he was hysterical. he didn't look both ways before he crossed the road. you get the picture. heartbreaking.
Making ANYWHERE a "Gun Free Zone"!!!!!
WTF?!?!
Talk about advertizing your defenselessness!!!
:rolleyes:
no need for defence if your stupid country had no stupid right to bear arms in the first place.
It's along way from the days of Pong
Rambo, and the Terminator didn't help much either
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
I just feel the need to dissect your argument even though I believe your comments should be completely ignored because of their content.
No offense to catefrances in what I'm about to say.
Just looking at your argument logically. If you believe the "traditional" way is better and you believe catefrances has lead her life in a bad way, how can u say the "traditional" way is better if she has been raised the "traditional" way?
Your argument does not follow logically.
I realize that the causes aren't so simple, that's why I said that a large part lies with the parents.
Also, in clarification, I was referring more to the high school shootings that have been much more common than the VT incident. After the child has left home and is in college living independently, the role of the parents is diminished significantly.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
These are all examples of why the majority of the blame (or whatever you want to call it) is on the parents. If they have kids, they should do what's best for them instead of being selfish.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Oh for sure most people who sign up for wars in the past did it for other reasons like the ones you suggested. But I am sure that there were a few who signed up so that they could kill Nazis or kill Redcoats or whoever. Especially since you could so that and also possibly be a hero. Most militaries don't play up the "go be a war hero" aspect any more. It would probably be a very small number but the percentage of students who decide to bring a gun to school and kill their classmates is also an extremely small number (even though that is not what the news networks would have you believe with the amount of coverage these things get).
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
exactly.
parents have a huge effect on a child's life but you can't blame anything on them in situations like this.
especially with teenage kids there's so much going on that the parents might not know about. for all they know everything's fine. and even though it might not all be fine, the parents have no way of knowing that.
I think one of the main reasons why these shootings happen is the state of today's society.. it's pretty scary how so many young men (cause face it, it's mainly men) feel this bad. it's scary to realise what kind of thoughts "normal" kids can have.
If only you girls didn't make it so hard for us guys to have fun! You see girls are to blame!
if only you guys wouldn't find it so damn difficult to admit that you're not feeling well! :rolleyes:
(:p)
If we did admit most girls would look at us as weaklings
who cares about most girls? you can only marry one at a time anyway.
It kinda kills our chances of finding that one if the majority didn't like you.
And you know the whole.. "if your friends don't like him it won't work" policy
That's not true. You didn't read the information I've posted. Cho's parents did a lot to help him, but they failed. They tried and we need to look at the bigger picture. Why are we discussing "Why school shootings happen?" according to this lot "Everyone has free-will" and you simply cannot answer the question if they have free-will. But since we are talking as if the children do not have free-will and we are looking for external and internal causes for the behavior, then siphoning that blame onto the parents is a fallacy, since they don't have free-will either. But, you also said "A sad reality of todays societal breakdown." which might be closer to the truth. Soceity is a collection of all the inhabitants of a nation, that means us, that makes us responsible. We don't have free-will either, from a 3rd person, cosmic, causality perspective. However, from a "What are we gonna do" perspective, we can individually resist societal trends that cause violence.
I can assure you one of those trends is in-group/out-group hostility, which is a natural animal behavior.