State Orders Gas Station to Raise Prices

2

Comments

  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Umm...they do. Plenty of cities have laws against large retailers and other things to help protect established businesses and to limit competition.

    uhhh ... then why is all of america a clone of another ... you can drive thru myrtle beach, SC and it looks exactly like destin, FL ... everytown anchored by a wal-mart and home depot ... obviously, this is exaggerated a bit but i've spent a bit of time driving thru small town america and the ma and pa stores are fading faster then acid wash jeans ...
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    polaris wrote:
    uhhh ... then why is all of america a clone of another ... you can drive thru myrtle beach, SC and it looks exactly like destin, FL ... everytown anchored by a wal-mart and home depot ... obviously, this is exaggerated a bit but i've spent a bit of time driving thru small town america and the ma and pa stores are fading faster then acid wash jeans ...

    It is an exaggeration. And to say that "ma and pa stores are fading faster than acid wash jeans" is ridiculous. There are more small businesses in America than ever.
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    polaris wrote:
    uhhh ... then why is all of america a clone of another ... you can drive thru myrtle beach, SC and it looks exactly like destin, FL ... everytown anchored by a wal-mart and home depot ... obviously, this is exaggerated a bit but i've spent a bit of time driving thru small town america and the ma and pa stores are fading faster then acid wash jeans ...

    visit some small towns out west.

    i'm a one man opperation and doing fine.
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    farfromglorified wrote:
    It's part of what a free market is all about, yes. To those who think that predatory pricing is "sabatoging" industry -- what specifically is being "sabatoged"???


    other opperations won't be able to sell at the low prices and will go out of business. that gives me the oppertunity to buy them out and at that point; i can set the prices.
  • macgyver06
    macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    where did you all get the idea this law is to protect other retailers???

    the only reason a convenient store sells gas is so that you come into their store and buy the stuff they can make huge profits on.

    they don't want retailers to be able to control the gas prices because than it will create sort of a market...and the federal gov't loses lots and lots and BILLIONS of dollars.

    this is something though...kinda irony with a twist...

    our government creates a war to gain control of oil shipments here... they get that oil they seek...but instead of gettting oil to save our economy...it worsens it.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    onelongsong wrote:
    other opperations won't be able to sell at the low prices and will go out of business. that gives me the oppertunity to buy them out and at that point; i can set the prices.

    I'm not sure of the point you're making. Yes, in a commodity market the lowest price will win and that means the most efficient or capitalized operation will rule the market. However, how does this "sabatoge industry"? In the event that I push you out of the market, how is there less industry than there was before?
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    macgyver06 wrote:
    where did you all get the idea this law is to protect other retailers???

    Because that was the motivation behind this law -- protecting retailers from predatory pricing.
    the only reason a convenient store sells gas is so that you come into their store and buy the stuff they can make huge profits on.

    So?
    they don't want retailers to be able to control the gas prices because than it will create sort of a market...and the federal gov't loses lots and lots and BILLIONS of dollars.

    Huh? No one "controls" gas prices except for governments who sometimes set them.
    this is something though...kinda irony with a twist...

    our government creates a war to gain control of oil shipments here... they get that oil they seek...but instead of gettting oil to save our economy...it worsens it.

    Umm...maybe this should make you rethink the whole "war for oil" thing. It's a silly oversimplification.
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    farfromglorified wrote:
    It is an exaggeration. And to say that "ma and pa stores are fading faster than acid wash jeans" is ridiculous. There are more small businesses in America than ever.

    obviously subjective ... but, i wonder if there are stats that are related to say book stores, grocery stores, hardware and see how many are independently owned 1997 vs. 2007 ... i would suspect those numbers have dropped significantly ...

    i could be wrong - i'm just basing this on my experience visiting various towns ...
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    onelongsong wrote:
    visit some small towns out west.

    i'm a one man opperation and doing fine.

    is it because you sell a specialty product? ... are the big corporate farms - raising buffalo and such?
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    polaris wrote:
    obviously subjective ... but, i wonder if there are stats that are related to say book stores, grocery stores, hardware and see how many are independently owned 1997 vs. 2007 ... i would suspect those numbers have dropped significantly ...

    Very much so, yes. Small bookstores, hardware stores and grocery stores are fading fast. However, small Internet companies, home improvement service providers, and dietary consultants/providers are growing fast.

    A mom and pop grocery store has no more of a right to the market than Wal-mart does. Consumers evaluate their choices and choose who gets their business. It's not complicated, nor is it a tragedy by default.
    i could be wrong - i'm just basing this on my experience visiting various towns ...

    You're not wrong, really. You're just not looking at the full picture.
  • macgyver06
    macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Because that was the motivation behind this law -- protecting retailers from predatory pricing.



    So?



    Huh? No one "controls" gas prices except for governments who sometimes set them.



    Umm...maybe this should make you rethink the whole "war for oil" thing. It's a silly oversimplification.


    ok..
    1.what retailers would be getting protection under this law?
    2.about the controlling the prices...thats exactly what i said...they dont want retailers setting gas prices. OUR government sets the Gas Price. OPEC is not allowed on U.S. Soil.
    3.its not an over simplification. Its present day...look around you..it is peaceful here....not over there.
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Very much so, yes. Small bookstores, hardware stores and grocery stores are fading fast. However, small Internet companies, home improvement service providers, and dietary consultants/providers are growing fast.

    A mom and pop grocery store has no more of a right to the market than Wal-mart does. Consumers evaluate their choices and choose who gets their business. It's not complicated, nor is it a tragedy by default.



    You're not wrong, really. You're just not looking at the full picture.

    but i'm talking about retail ... and how it relates to this particular law ... if the law is set to protect the ma and pa gas stations - why aren't they protecting the bakers, grocery stores and hardware stores as well?
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    macgyver06 wrote:
    ok..
    1.what retailers would be getting protection under this law?

    Existing gas stations. They are being protected from typically larger operations that would move in and deliberately set prices below wholesale costs.
    2.about the controlling the prices...thats exactly what i said...they dont want retailers setting gas prices. OUR government sets the Gas Price. OPEC is not allowed on U.S. Soil.

    Our government does not set the gas prices, really. The world oil market, refineries, and retailers largely set prices with the government then getting involved with occassional price fixing and taxation. In other words, gas prices are largely determined by oil supply, consumer demand, and regulation.
    3.its not an over simplification. Its present day...look around you..it is peaceful here....not over there.

    :rolleyes:

    Yet the majority of US oil comes from here. So the above doesn't make much sense.

    The Middle East is an important region to the US because of oil. The reason for war, however, is much more complicated. I'm not justifying the war by any means, I'm just saying that the whole "war for oil" thing is kind of stupid when we had more control over Iraqi oil before the war than we do now.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    polaris wrote:
    but i'm talking about retail ... and how it relates to this particular law ... if the law is set to protect the ma and pa gas stations - why aren't they protecting the bakers, grocery stores and hardware stores as well?

    Because bread, groceries and hammers aren't gas. As someone above indicated, these laws typically grew out of the gas price insanity in the 70s when people foolishly feared that selling gas would become an untenable business.

    In the event that the United States experienced a perceived threat to its wheat supply, you'd see the same laws elsewhere.
  • macgyver06
    macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Existing gas stations. They are being protected from typically larger operations that would move in and deliberately set prices below wholesale costs.

    this is wrong economics and thats why this is not the reason for the law.


    You are suggesting that a lone station in the desert sets gas prices at 5.00.
    A gigantic BP moves in across the street and could set gas at 4.50 and of course get 100% of the customers.

    This is false theory.

    so the old store would eventually drop its price to 4.50 or be forced to raise the price to even more than 5.00 because it now gets 0 customers and is praying for one to come in..they would be run out of business.

    The store would drop equal or lower to the new store setting up a market of competition immediately.

    and under you theory these 2 companies would keep lowering prices to compete??

    I DONT THINK SO.

    why would 2 companies sacrifice what could be a great profit for both into nothing? THEY WOULDNT
  • macgyver06
    macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    Our government wants control of the price because like cigarettes its almost an elastic good.
  • macgyver06
    macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    which is exactly why the price is going up...supply and demand plays no factor in this country on the price of gasoline.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    macgyver06 wrote:
    this is wrong economics and thats why this is not the reason for the law.

    Hehe...most laws are "wrong economics". A law's inconsistency with good economics is usually a proof of its existence, rather than the other way around.
    You are suggesting that a lone station in the desert sets gas prices at 5.00.
    A gigantic BP moves in across the street and could set gas at 4.50 and of course get 100% of the customers.

    This is false theory.

    so the old store would eventually drop its price to 4.50 or be forced to raise the price to even more than 5.00 because it now gets 0 customers and is praying for one to come in..they would be run out of business.

    The store would drop equal or lower to the new store setting up a market of competition immediately.

    and under you theory these 2 companies would keep lowering prices to compete??

    I DONT THINK SO.

    why would 2 companies sacrifice what could be a great profit for both into nothing? THEY WOULDNT

    Hehe...they wouldn't? That's odd since gas stations all across America do this everyday. Certainly collusion exists in the market, and the idea of limitless competition involving an effectively non-renewable commodity is silly, but the gasolene market is certainly marked by inter-company competition.

    Your idea here seems to imply that collusion would be the end-game of the market. That's silly because a colluding business only stands to access 50% of the market. If the margin on gas at $5 is $.50, but I only get 50% of the market, I'd happily take a $.40 margin to capture 80% of the market.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    macgyver06 wrote:
    which is exactly why the price is going up...supply and demand plays no factor in this country on the price of gasoline.

    What are you talking about? Gas price fluctuations are inextricably linked to supply and demand because gas prices are primarily a factor of oil prices and consumer demand. When oil supplies are threatened (like now), gas prices go up. When oil supplies are not threatened (like 10 years ago), gas prices go down. When consumer demand goes up (like now), gas prices go up. When consumer demand goes down (like this winter), gas prices go down.
  • macgyver06
    macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    farfromglorified wrote:
    What are you talking about? Gas price fluctuations are inextricably linked to supply and demand because gas prices are primarily a factor of oil prices and consumer demand. When oil supplies are threatened (like now), gas prices go up. When oil supplies are not threatened (like 10 years ago), gas prices go down. When consumer demand goes up (like now), gas prices go up. When consumer demand goes down (like this winter), gas prices go down.

    what do you mean consumer demand... this isnt a factor when the govt determines the price per gallon in this country...OPEC does not set the prices for this country.. we buy barrels. than they are set in this country. there are no world economics to this...people from england are not moving here for cheaper gas.

    the season thing is irrelevant and is still set by our goverment...in the summers here in orlando...gas goes up because of the tourism industry??
    it doesnt go up because of a demand change...it goes up because it means more money during a 3 month period.

    im saying this law is not meant to protect smaller companies... cause you could actually argue its meant to help bigger companies in the case of a Sams club...i can get all my gas for the same price as the little hindu guys store and buy a gallon jar of pickles and plasma tv in one trip...

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