that's the most intelligent thing i've ever heard come out of you. spot on mate.
How are humans able to do these things Cosmo refered to? Mostly by using tools that our intellect has designed. Our brains are only able to do this because they have quite naturally evolved. Evolution about as natural a process as there is.
Why is it unnatural when we dam a river in order to produce electricity but it's natural for a beaver to dam a river in order to build their home?
Cows fart and create greenhouse gasses, we treat this as natural. But when we create greenhouse gasses we treat it as unnatural. From my point of view there is a disconnect occuring over what is natural and unnatural. Humans are a naturally evolved species on earth. Everything we do is just as natural as anything done by any other species.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
How are humans able to do these things Cosmo refered to? Mostly by using tools that our intellect has designed. Our brains are only able to do this because they have quite naturally evolved. Evolution about as natural a process as there is.
Why is it unnatural when we dam a river in order to produce electricity but it's natural for a beaver to dam a river in order to build their home?
Cows fart and create greenhouse gasses, we treat this as natural. But when we create greenhouse gasses we treat it as unnatural. From my point of view there is a disconnect occuring over what is natural and unnatural. Humans are a naturally evolved species on earth. Everything we do is just as natural as anything done by any other species.
...
Nope.. you are comparing apples to B-2 Bombers... no comparison.
...
Boulder Dam cannot be compared to a beaver dam, unless there are 10 foot tall Beavers somewhere building dams to irrigate their crops, change the river current downstream so they can build condos and generate electricity so they can watch 'Leave It to Beaver' re-runs on Nickelodeon.
The way you would be able to compare it in your manner would be if Man lived in dams he created from the surrounding vegatation... that would be natural.
as for the cow farts... they are as natural as human farts. but to compare cow farts to output from man-made objects such as factories and autos.. well, when the cows start building factories and cars that pollute the atmosphere... then, we'll talk. Until then... it's apples and Iranian Nuclear facilities.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
How are humans able to do these things Cosmo refered to? Mostly by using tools that our intellect has designed. Our brains are only able to do this because they have quite naturally evolved. Evolution about as natural a process as there is.
Why is it unnatural when we dam a river in order to produce electricity but it's natural for a beaver to dam a river in order to build their home?
Cows fart and create greenhouse gasses, we treat this as natural. But when we create greenhouse gasses we treat it as unnatural. From my point of view there is a disconnect occuring over what is natural and unnatural. Humans are a naturally evolved species on earth. Everything we do is just as natural as anything done by any other species.
dude; humans lived naturally about 200 years ago and before. if you need to blame global warming on something; blame the industrial revolution. humans have used their intellect to destroy themselves. what is the one thing humans have always done since the beginning of human life? they've tried to find better ways to kill other humans. the spear gave way to the bow and arrow. the bow and arrow gave way to the gun. as the gun was improved; we invented bombs. human nature is to kill.
now look at global warming. instead of people using the technology we've developed; we're more interested in pointing fingers at who or what's to blame. we're not interested in slowing it. those that say it's the earths natural cycle; don't look at what happened to the earth when it didn't have ice cover. they don't look at the times the earth did suffer from global warming. if we're so bloody smart; why are we destroying ourselves?
So can I take from this you are against abortion? You've given equal weight to a future life as a current life.
I make a distinction between a humans life and an embryo or fetus.
I wonder if you make a payment to African charities equal to the taxes you pay to your government? If you believe a foreigners life is of equal value to a fellow countryman's you'd be all for global free trade. As long as someone is being employed it does not matter where they live.
Africa, or 'the third world' doesn't need money and food to survive another season, but knowledge tailored to whatever need is encountered on a smaller scale than it needs top down 'bandages' that can't fix structural problems.
I am all for free trade and think if implemented gradually it'll work if there is willingness to work together. There simply aren't enough people willing to make socks and flat screen monitors or grow and pick fruit here than there are in other countries, while in those countries the level and skill of technological and medical research can't compete with what is done here or in identical countries.
It's quite easy to say you believe all peoples lives have the same value or that a future life is of the same value of a current life but, it's quite different to live according to those beliefs. These beliefs have a serious impact on your neighbors. Are you willing to try to impose our belief system on them?
Screaming, imposing, I don't see the need for overstatement, but why would my believes have a serious impact on my neighbors?
By your reasoning would you value a 1/2 of an American/Dutch couple sentenced to death in a corrupt country more than the other?
I value the lives of the people I know personally more than those I don't. Nationality doesn't weigh in much in my respect for life in general. As an example it wouldn't sadden me less to hear a American soldier died in Afghanistan, than a Dutch would.
I think you are cutting some corners in most claims, but yeah I do believe empathy and solidarity go beyond borders. If actions here can have a positive effect on others on the other side of the world, why not make an effort?
...
Yeah... sorry I was unable to dispute your assessment that the Earth Revolves around the Sun once every several thousand years.
sorry i haven't been well enough to find the evidence. i can't sit at the pc that long. i'd like to know the speed that the earth actually moves in it's orbit. considering that we are millions of miles away from the sun; we must really be flying through space. that circumference formula is pie R sq. if someone wants to do the math. my calculator only goes to 6 digits. it has to be billions of miles for us to orbit the sun.
sorry i haven't been well enough to find the evidence. i can't sit at the pc that long. i'd like to know the speed that the earth actually moves in it's orbit. considering that we are millions of miles away from the sun; we must really be flying through space. that circumference formula is pie R sq. if someone wants to do the math. my calculator only goes to 6 digits. it has to be billions of miles for us to orbit the sun.
...
Fact: The Earth goes around the Sun... once every 365.4 days. Not thousands of years.
...
ADD: Earth's speed as it travels around the Sun... approx. 110,000 km per hour (68350.8 mph).
ref: http://www.geocities.com/Omegaman_UK/relativity.html
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
Nope.. you are comparing apples to B-2 Bombers... no comparison.
...
Boulder Dam cannot be compared to a beaver dam, unless there are 10 foot tall Beavers somewhere building dams to irrigate their crops, change the river current downstream so they can build condos and generate electricity so they can watch 'Leave It to Beaver' re-runs on Nickelodeon.
The way you would be able to compare it in your manner would be if Man lived in dams he created from the surrounding vegatation... that would be natural.
as for the cow farts... they are as natural as human farts. but to compare cow farts to output from man-made objects such as factories and autos.. well, when the cows start building factories and cars that pollute the atmosphere... then, we'll talk. Until then... it's apples and Iranian Nuclear facilities.
why are there billions of cows? why are 90,000 cows butchered EACH BLOODY DAY? man! why are there concrete cities that become heat sinks? man! it can rain over phoenix yet no rain hits the ground? it evaporates because of the concrete heat sink we've built. there's a name for it but it eludes me at the moment. since when is a tele natural? since when is plastic natural? where the bloody hell does DVD players grow naturally in nature? man invents the car which expells deadly poisons and knows he's going to breathe those poisons. man knows those poisons will contaminate the atmosphere but he doesn't care because it won't happen in his lifetime.
now tell me again how smart man is. he's smart enough to orchestrate his own extinction. that's how smart man is.
sorry cosmo. i didn't direct this at you. i know we're on the same page here. i just got pissed at something someone else said. i quoted you but this isn't directed at you.
my mistake.
why are there billions of cows? why are 90,000 cows butchered EACH BLOODY DAY? man! why are there concrete cities that become heat sinks? man! it can rain over phoenix yet no rain hits the ground? it evaporates because of the concrete heat sink we've built. there's a name for it but it eludes me at the moment. since when is a tele natural? since when is plastic natural? where the bloody hell does DVD players grow naturally in nature? man invents the car which expells deadly poisons and knows he's going to breathe those poisons. man knows those poisons will contaminate the atmosphere but he doesn't care because it won't happen in his lifetime.
now tell me again how smart man is. he's smart enough to orchestrate his own extinction. that's how smart man is.
sorry cosmo. i didn't direct this at you. i know we're on the same page here. i just got pissed at something someone else said. i quoted you but this isn't directed at you.
my mistake.
...
The cause of the current day mass extinction of plant and animal species... Man.
Mass Extinctions of the past are NOT cyclical... pollution and destruction of habitats and environs are not part of Natural cycles... neither are comet/asteroid impacts and/or plate tectonics.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
sorry i haven't been well enough to find the evidence. i can't sit at the pc that long. i'd like to know the speed that the earth actually moves in it's orbit. considering that we are millions of miles away from the sun; we must really be flying through space. that circumference formula is pie R sq. if someone wants to do the math. my calculator only goes to 6 digits. it has to be billions of miles for us to orbit the sun.
Kind of ironic since "Earth" originally meant stationary, unmoving, the centre of the universe.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
...
Fact: The Earth goes around the Sun... once every 365.4 days. Not thousands of years.
...
ADD: Earth's speed as it travels around the Sun... approx. 110,000 km per hour (68350.8 mph).
ref: http://www.geocities.com/Omegaman_UK/relativity.html
what i am talking about is the earths ORBIT in relation to the solar system. every 62 million years we are closest to the edge of our solar system. most scientists agree that this is where we are most likely to get large amounts of radiation and it just so happens that our extinctions are concurrent with this orbit. it is also believed that these times also started mutations and changes in our evolution.
our orbit is up and down is the universe.
what i am talking about is the earths ORBIT in relation to the solar system. every 62 million years we are closest to the edge of our solar system. most scientists agree that this is where we are most likely to get large amounts of radiation and it just so happens that our extinctions are concurrent with this orbit. it is also believed that these times also started mutations and changes in our evolution.
our orbit is up and down is the universe.
...
???
You understand... our Solar system is made up of 4 terrestrial planets... 4 jovian planets and a dirty ball of ice and rock... and a few other objects revolving around one medium sized star, right? The Earth is in a relativily fixed orbit around the Sun and does not stray towards the edges of the Solar System.
Are you talking about the sun's movement in the Milky Way Galaxy? Or are you suggestng that the Earth's motion takes it off of the plane of the ecliptic?
Either way... mass extinctions on Earth have NOT occurred every 62 million years:
65 Million years ago... a comet took out the dinosaurs.
200 Million years ago...
250 Million years ago... the Great Permian Extinction (see previous message for suspected causes)
360 Million years ago...
444 Million years ago...
488 Million years ago... took out the Trilobites.
...
So the extinction pattern is:
44 M, 84 M, 110 M, 50 M, 145 M, 65 M.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
???
You understand... our Solar system is made up of 4 terrestrial planets... 4 jovian planets and a dirty ball of ice and rock... and a few other objects revolving around one medium sized star, right? The Earth is in a relativily fixed orbit around the Sun and does not stray towards the edges of the Solar System.
Are you talking about the sun's movement in the Milky Way Galaxy? Or are you suggestng that the Earth's motion takes it off of the plane of the ecliptic?
Either way... mass extinctions on Earth have NOT occurred every 62 million years:
65 Million years ago... a comet took out the dinosaurs.
200 Million years ago...
250 Million years ago... the Great Permian Extinction (see previous message for suspected causes)
360 Million years ago...
444 Million years ago...
488 Million years ago... took out the Trilobites.
...
So the extinction pattern is:
44 M, 84 M, 110 M, 50 M, 145 M, 65 M.
our orbit moves up and down in relation to the milky way. the 62 million years is when significant changes in evolution took place. all the extinctions (we've had 3) were caused by global warming. the one that wasn't was the extinction that took out the trilobites which some scientists say we were closest to the edge of the milky way and a super nova blast of gamma radiation caused that extinction.
there's a NAKED SCIENCE program discussing extinctions on the national geographic channel on 11/3 i think you'd really like. it discusses what we've been talking about.
our orbit moves up and down in relation to the milky way. the 62 million years is when significant changes in evolution took place. all the extinctions (we've had 3) were caused by global warming. the one that wasn't was the extinction that took out the trilobites which some scientists say we were closest to the edge of the milky way and a super nova blast of gamma radiation caused that extinction.
there's a NAKED SCIENCE program discussing extinctions on the national geographic channel on 11/3 i think you'd really like. it discusses what we've been talking about.
...
If I'm home and I remember... I'll watch it.
Otherwise, it takes our Solar System about 250 Milion Years to make one revolution... and this is at a speed of about 220 Kilometers per second. As for affects on out little planet... the Sun and the planet itself exerts the most influence on us. All of Earth's Mass Extinctions have been cause by events on the Earth's surface... not because of it's position in the Universe. These events... comet impact and continental drift... are random in occurrance.
Sure, someday the galaxy WILL be a major factor... as the Milky Way and Andromeda galaxies collide in a couple of billion years from now... but, by then, the Earth will have probably seen several hundred mass extinctions... if life even survives.
As for Gamma Ray blasts... Those are servere. If they occur close enough to us... we are doomed. They can blast the complete atmosphere off of the planet... basically turning Earth into Mars. Again... Gamma ray blasts... random events... not run in cycles.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
If I'm home and I remember... I'll watch it.
Otherwise, it takes our Solar System about 250 Milion Years to make one revolution... and this is at a speed of about 220 Kilometers per second. As for affects on out little planet... the Sun and the planet itself exerts the most influence on us. All of Earth's Mass Extinctions have been cause by events on the Earth's surface... not because of it's position in the Universe. These events... comet impact and continental drift... are random in occurrance.
Sure, someday the galaxy WILL be a major factor... as the Milky Way and Andromeda galaxies collide in a couple of billion years from now... but, by then, the Earth will have probably seen several hundred mass extinctions... if life even survives.
As for Gamma Ray blasts... Those are servere. If they occur close enough to us... we are doomed. They can blast the complete atmosphere off of the planet... basically turning Earth into Mars. Again... Gamma ray blasts... random events... not run in cycles.
please try to watch that program. i think we could have a good discussion about it. i saw part of it and TIVO'd it for the 3rd.
i agree that some scientists believe exactly what you say. i side with the others that believe the permian extinction was global warming after the discovery in greenland in 1998.
you won't get all scientists to agree about anything. each one has their own theory and different evidence they believe prove it. i guess it all depends which one you side with.
side note: do you know where roland is? i need to talk to him and he can't receive PMs.
Kind of ironic since "Earth" originally meant stationary, unmoving, the centre of the universe.
we're really flying through our revolution. that's where we had the disagreement. there's a diference between revolution and orbit. i'm trying to find out if a complete orbit is 62 million years; or 124 million years.
Comments
Why is it unnatural when we dam a river in order to produce electricity but it's natural for a beaver to dam a river in order to build their home?
Cows fart and create greenhouse gasses, we treat this as natural. But when we create greenhouse gasses we treat it as unnatural. From my point of view there is a disconnect occuring over what is natural and unnatural. Humans are a naturally evolved species on earth. Everything we do is just as natural as anything done by any other species.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Nope.. you are comparing apples to B-2 Bombers... no comparison.
...
Boulder Dam cannot be compared to a beaver dam, unless there are 10 foot tall Beavers somewhere building dams to irrigate their crops, change the river current downstream so they can build condos and generate electricity so they can watch 'Leave It to Beaver' re-runs on Nickelodeon.
The way you would be able to compare it in your manner would be if Man lived in dams he created from the surrounding vegatation... that would be natural.
as for the cow farts... they are as natural as human farts. but to compare cow farts to output from man-made objects such as factories and autos.. well, when the cows start building factories and cars that pollute the atmosphere... then, we'll talk. Until then... it's apples and Iranian Nuclear facilities.
Hail, Hail!!!
dude; humans lived naturally about 200 years ago and before. if you need to blame global warming on something; blame the industrial revolution. humans have used their intellect to destroy themselves. what is the one thing humans have always done since the beginning of human life? they've tried to find better ways to kill other humans. the spear gave way to the bow and arrow. the bow and arrow gave way to the gun. as the gun was improved; we invented bombs. human nature is to kill.
now look at global warming. instead of people using the technology we've developed; we're more interested in pointing fingers at who or what's to blame. we're not interested in slowing it. those that say it's the earths natural cycle; don't look at what happened to the earth when it didn't have ice cover. they don't look at the times the earth did suffer from global warming. if we're so bloody smart; why are we destroying ourselves?
Yeah... sorry I was unable to dispute your assessment that the Earth Revolves around the Sun once every several thousand years.
Hail, Hail!!!
I am all for free trade and think if implemented gradually it'll work if there is willingness to work together. There simply aren't enough people willing to make socks and flat screen monitors or grow and pick fruit here than there are in other countries, while in those countries the level and skill of technological and medical research can't compete with what is done here or in identical countries. Screaming, imposing, I don't see the need for overstatement, but why would my believes have a serious impact on my neighbors?
By your reasoning would you value a 1/2 of an American/Dutch couple sentenced to death in a corrupt country more than the other?
I value the lives of the people I know personally more than those I don't. Nationality doesn't weigh in much in my respect for life in general. As an example it wouldn't sadden me less to hear a American soldier died in Afghanistan, than a Dutch would.
I think you are cutting some corners in most claims, but yeah I do believe empathy and solidarity go beyond borders. If actions here can have a positive effect on others on the other side of the world, why not make an effort?
sorry i haven't been well enough to find the evidence. i can't sit at the pc that long. i'd like to know the speed that the earth actually moves in it's orbit. considering that we are millions of miles away from the sun; we must really be flying through space. that circumference formula is pie R sq. if someone wants to do the math. my calculator only goes to 6 digits. it has to be billions of miles for us to orbit the sun.
Fact: The Earth goes around the Sun... once every 365.4 days. Not thousands of years.
...
ADD: Earth's speed as it travels around the Sun... approx. 110,000 km per hour (68350.8 mph).
ref: http://www.geocities.com/Omegaman_UK/relativity.html
Hail, Hail!!!
why are there billions of cows? why are 90,000 cows butchered EACH BLOODY DAY? man! why are there concrete cities that become heat sinks? man! it can rain over phoenix yet no rain hits the ground? it evaporates because of the concrete heat sink we've built. there's a name for it but it eludes me at the moment. since when is a tele natural? since when is plastic natural? where the bloody hell does DVD players grow naturally in nature? man invents the car which expells deadly poisons and knows he's going to breathe those poisons. man knows those poisons will contaminate the atmosphere but he doesn't care because it won't happen in his lifetime.
now tell me again how smart man is. he's smart enough to orchestrate his own extinction. that's how smart man is.
sorry cosmo. i didn't direct this at you. i know we're on the same page here. i just got pissed at something someone else said. i quoted you but this isn't directed at you.
my mistake.
The cause of the current day mass extinction of plant and animal species... Man.
Mass Extinctions of the past are NOT cyclical... pollution and destruction of habitats and environs are not part of Natural cycles... neither are comet/asteroid impacts and/or plate tectonics.
Hail, Hail!!!
I thought it was like 45,000 KM/H
Let us look.
107,218 km/h
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth
Kind of ironic since "Earth" originally meant stationary, unmoving, the centre of the universe.
you are correct but what you're talking about is the EARTHS REVOLUTION.
http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/6h.html
what i am talking about is the earths ORBIT in relation to the solar system. every 62 million years we are closest to the edge of our solar system. most scientists agree that this is where we are most likely to get large amounts of radiation and it just so happens that our extinctions are concurrent with this orbit. it is also believed that these times also started mutations and changes in our evolution.
our orbit is up and down is the universe.
???
You understand... our Solar system is made up of 4 terrestrial planets... 4 jovian planets and a dirty ball of ice and rock... and a few other objects revolving around one medium sized star, right? The Earth is in a relativily fixed orbit around the Sun and does not stray towards the edges of the Solar System.
Are you talking about the sun's movement in the Milky Way Galaxy? Or are you suggestng that the Earth's motion takes it off of the plane of the ecliptic?
Either way... mass extinctions on Earth have NOT occurred every 62 million years:
65 Million years ago... a comet took out the dinosaurs.
200 Million years ago...
250 Million years ago... the Great Permian Extinction (see previous message for suspected causes)
360 Million years ago...
444 Million years ago...
488 Million years ago... took out the Trilobites.
...
So the extinction pattern is:
44 M, 84 M, 110 M, 50 M, 145 M, 65 M.
Hail, Hail!!!
our orbit moves up and down in relation to the milky way. the 62 million years is when significant changes in evolution took place. all the extinctions (we've had 3) were caused by global warming. the one that wasn't was the extinction that took out the trilobites which some scientists say we were closest to the edge of the milky way and a super nova blast of gamma radiation caused that extinction.
there's a NAKED SCIENCE program discussing extinctions on the national geographic channel on 11/3 i think you'd really like. it discusses what we've been talking about.
If I'm home and I remember... I'll watch it.
Otherwise, it takes our Solar System about 250 Milion Years to make one revolution... and this is at a speed of about 220 Kilometers per second. As for affects on out little planet... the Sun and the planet itself exerts the most influence on us. All of Earth's Mass Extinctions have been cause by events on the Earth's surface... not because of it's position in the Universe. These events... comet impact and continental drift... are random in occurrance.
Sure, someday the galaxy WILL be a major factor... as the Milky Way and Andromeda galaxies collide in a couple of billion years from now... but, by then, the Earth will have probably seen several hundred mass extinctions... if life even survives.
As for Gamma Ray blasts... Those are servere. If they occur close enough to us... we are doomed. They can blast the complete atmosphere off of the planet... basically turning Earth into Mars. Again... Gamma ray blasts... random events... not run in cycles.
Hail, Hail!!!
please try to watch that program. i think we could have a good discussion about it. i saw part of it and TIVO'd it for the 3rd.
i agree that some scientists believe exactly what you say. i side with the others that believe the permian extinction was global warming after the discovery in greenland in 1998.
you won't get all scientists to agree about anything. each one has their own theory and different evidence they believe prove it. i guess it all depends which one you side with.
side note: do you know where roland is? i need to talk to him and he can't receive PMs.
we're really flying through our revolution. that's where we had the disagreement. there's a diference between revolution and orbit. i'm trying to find out if a complete orbit is 62 million years; or 124 million years.