Profanity Reprise

Ahnimus

Wikipedia wrote:

Terms of profanity have historically been taboo words. Some words originally considered profane have become much less offensive with the increasing secularity of society, while others, primarily racial or ethnic epithets which can be considered part of hate speech, have become increasingly taboo. One vulgar expression that has remained taboo is "fuck you".

The word cunt maintains much of its taboo status at least partly due to the influence of feminism, though other feminists are attempting to "reclaim" a neutral or complimentary status for this word. Shakespeare hinted at the word in Hamlet, Twelfth Night and Henry V: Hamlet quips about "country matters" when he tries to lay his head in Ophelia's lap; Malvolio has the salacious line "These be her very c's, her u's, and her t's, and thus she makes her great p's"; and the French Princess Katherine is amused by the word gown for its similarity to the French con ("fucking stupid", "asshole"). Interestingly, the word "cunt," while retaining its original meaning in America, has changed in meaning somewhat in Great Britain in the past thirty years. Where American usage of the word exclusively refers to either female anatomy or (in extreme cases) an ill-tempered woman, "cunt" in the UK has attained the status of a gender-neutral insult, akin to "asshole" or "bastard."

In the U.S. today, terminology considered to be racist is often seen as more offensive than sexual or scatalogical terminology; this is most clearly shown in the attention given to use of the word nigger, now effectively banned in American public discourse, although many blacks use the word "nigga" more than whites do in their normal conversations. So strong is the social disapproval aimed at this word, that it has affected use of the unrelated, but similar-sounding, word niggardly (meaning "stingy"). For example, in a highly publicized incident in 1999, the mayor of Washington, DC, Anthony A. Williams, pressed for the resignation of his staff member, David Howard, because Howard used the word "niggardly" in a private staff meeting [1]. As with other types of profanity, context is very important; thus, Americans of African descent might use the word nigger, or the related nigga, in informal situations among themselves, without being considered offensive.

Psycholinguistic studies have demonstrated that profanity and other taboo words produce physical effects in people who read or hear them, such as an elevated heart rate.

This fact is seen by some as evidence that reclaiming of words such as queer and bitch as a valid way to remove their power. See also the article on nigger.

The offensiveness or perceived intensity or vulgarity of the various profanities can change over time, with certain words becoming more or less offensive as time goes on. For example, in modern times the word piss is usually considered mildly vulgar and somewhat impolite, whereas the King James Bible unblushingly employs it where modern translators would prefer the word urine (2 Kings 18:27; Isa 36:12) or urinate (1 Sam 25:22, 25:34; 1 Kings 14:10, 16:11, 21:21; 2 Kings 9:8). The word cunt has seen a similar evolution; its ancestor ("queynte") was not considered vulgar at all, but the word is now considered among the most offensive words in the English language.

Profanity, always has and always will be a part of human language. Humans have a desire to express themselves in shocking ways, it adds emphasis to our expressions. These terms change over time, Humbug used to be a profane word, as is the case "Bah Humbug!". Which is acceptable for children now.

I bring this up, because it is a major problem for people. People are offended by the use of some words. This is actually a trigger in their brains. Only some people have this trigger. Typically people who were raised to dislike profanity or fall into the PC trap.

All words serve one purpose, expression. If someone says "fuck you!" they mean "I disagree with you" with a little sugar on top. It displays their frustration with a situation. This is important especially on the internet. Reading "I disagree with you" implies a calm objection to a particular statement and encourages further debate. "Fuck you!" implies a angered objection and encourages closure of a debate.

The main thing to consider is that these are all just words. Many things can offend people, such as "I am going to have 'sexual intercourse' with your sister", "I am going to 'mess' you up". Offensive expressions that do not include words deemed profane, but use acceptable words synonymous with their respective profanities.

We can't protect everyone from feeling offended. It is entirely up to the individual to hinder their emotions. I feel offended by some political perspectives concerning various topics. However, those people are entitled to their perspectives and they are entitled to use 'vulgar' language to express themselves.

A typical conversation between people on the moving train, could easily be equated to the following:

"This is bullshit"
"fuck you!"
"ah your full of shit!"
"Fuck right off!"
etc..

When a debate is polarized to the extent that none of the participants are considering the opposites perspectives, then the conversation could have just been the above. Some people do not have the capacity to express themselves through "acceptable language" perhaps due to lack of vocabulary and in many cases resort to "profanity".

In some cases where speech is censured, such as this board, a person will raise a reasonable question or debate. An individual with nothing to add that disagrees could just say "Ah your full of shit!" which would express their true stance and knowledge of the topic. However because of censure they are forced to make statements like "You are a liar" which implies there is some substance to back the claim, even when there isn't.

This is the way I see it, profanity is casual language, it packs emphasis but little substance. If someone says to me "fuck you" it means they don't like me, but it doesn't tell me why. If someone says to me "You lie, cheat and steal and I don't like you" that means they don't like me and it expresses why. I personally find "fuck you" less offensive because it is hollow.

I hope someday, others will see it this way. Also please don't ban me like last time. If you find something offensive in this post, please explain why and remove it or something if you absolutely have to. This is as much for moderators as it is for anyone else. If we censure a word we lock in it's emphasis, over use will make it common acceptable language. The only reason these words are considered bad is because people regard them as bad. My children (if, someday) will have complete knowledge of profanity and will be unrestricted to form sounds with their lips, jaws and tongues. They will also be taught that some (rare) individuals actually find these sounds offensive and need to be protected, don't want to hurt their precious ears. But if my son stubs his toe or bangs his knee as I just did and says "fuck, oh that hurts" I won't be running for the soap.

Ahnimus

In attribution theory, the fundamental attribution error (also known as correspondence bias or overattribution effect and frequently confused with the actor-observer bias) is the tendency for people to over-emphasize dispositional, or personality-based, explanations for behaviors observed in others while under-emphasizing the role and power of situational influences on the same behavior. In other words, people tend to have a default assumption that what a person does is based more on what "kind" of person he or she is, rather than the social and environmental forces at work on that person. This default assumption leads to people sometimes making erroneous explanations for behavior. This general bias to over-emphasizing dispositional explanations for behavior at the expense of situational explanations is much less likely to occur when people evaluate their own behavior.

The term was coined by Lee Ross some years after the now-classic experiment by Edward E. Jones and Victor Harris. Ross argued in a popular paper that the fundamental attribution error forms the conceptual bedrock for the field of social psychology.

More recently some psychologists including Daniel Gilbert have begun using the term "correspondence bias" for the fundamental attribution error and the two terms are often used synonymously. Jones wrote that he found Ross's term "overly provocative and somewhat misleading" (and also joked "Furthermore, I'm angry that I didn't think of it first").

People often lie about little things, and make justifications for it. The reasons may be that it will spare someone from hurt, or make a situation less complicated, or that it's unimportant to anyone else. However, equally often, people are critical about others who are not fully honest, arguing that there is no excuse for it. This is an example of the fundamental attribution error, an inconsistency based on perspective.

The two opposing perspectives:

1. When I do well it is because I am talented and good (internal cause: my credit), when I do poorly it is because of bad luck (external cause: not my fault).

2. When you do well it is because you are lucky (external cause: not your credit), when you do poorly it is because you are bad, unskilled, no talent, poor character, etc. (internal cause: your blame).

Examples:

Example a: I stub my toe because the object was in my way (external cause), someone else stubs their toe because they weren't paying attention (internal cause).

Example b: I do well on a test because I studied hard and am smart (internal cause), someone else does well on a test because the test was easy and the teacher liked them (external cause).

I think that these examples may be of the actor-observer discrepancy, I'll provide another example that may be better suited:
You see two men lifting a file cabinet. When they tip it over the drawers all slide out and the contents of the cabinet come crashing to the floor. You immediately arrive at the conclusion that these two men must not be too bright. You come to that conclusion as a result of the fundamental attribution error; after all, it's possible that the lock on the drawers broke, or there may be some other explanation for their mishap.

One theoretical view holds that the error results largely from perspective. When we observe other people, the person is the primary reference point. When we observe ourselves, we are more aware of the forces acting upon us. So, attributions for others’ behavior are more likely to focus on the person we see, not the situational forces acting upon that person that we may not be aware of. In the parlance of psychology research, this is called salience -- more "salient" factors are more likely to be attributed as causal.

Byrnzie

Ahnimus wrote:

Profanity, always has and always will be a part of human language. Humans have a desire to express themselves in shocking ways, it adds emphasis to our expressions. These terms change over time, Humbug used to be a profane word, as is the case "Bah Humbug!". Which is acceptable for children now.

I bring this up, because it is a major problem for people. People are offended by the use of some words. This is actually a trigger in their brains. Only some people have this trigger. Typically people who were raised to dislike profanity or fall into the PC trap.

All words serve one purpose, expression. If someone says "fuck you!" they mean "I disagree with you" with a little sugar on top. It displays their frustration with a situation. This is important especially on the internet. Reading "I disagree with you" implies a calm objection to a particular statement and encourages further debate. "Fuck you!" implies a angered objection and encourages closure of a debate.

The main thing to consider is that these are all just words. Many things can offend people, such as "I am going to have 'sexual intercourse' with your sister", "I am going to 'mess' you up". Offensive expressions that do not include words deemed profane, but use acceptable words synonymous with their respective profanities.

We can't protect everyone from feeling offended. It is entirely up to the individual to hinder their emotions. I feel offended by some political perspectives concerning various topics. However, those people are entitled to their perspectives and they are entitled to use 'vulgar' language to express themselves.

A typical conversation between people on the moving train, could easily be equated to the following:

"This is bullshit"
"fuck you!"
"ah your full of shit!"
"Fuck right off!"
etc..

When a debate is polarized to the extent that none of the participants are considering the opposites perspectives, then the conversation could have just been the above. Some people do not have the capacity to express themselves through "acceptable language" perhaps due to lack of vocabulary and in many cases resort to "profanity".

In some cases where speech is censured, such as this board, a person will raise a reasonable question or debate. An individual with nothing to add that disagrees could just say "Ah your full of shit!" which would express their true stance and knowledge of the topic. However because of censure they are forced to make statements like "You are a liar" which implies there is some substance to back the claim, even when there isn't.

This is the way I see it, profanity is casual language, it packs emphasis but little substance. If someone says to me "fuck you" it means they don't like me, but it doesn't tell me why. If someone says to me "You lie, cheat and steal and I don't like you" that means they don't like me and it expresses why. I personally find "fuck you" less offensive because it is hollow.

I hope someday, others will see it this way. Also please don't ban me like last time. If you find something offensive in this post, please explain why and remove it or something if you absolutely have to. This is as much for moderators as it is for anyone else. If we censure a word we lock in it's emphasis, over use will make it common acceptable language. The only reason these words are considered bad is because people regard them as bad. My children (if, someday) will have complete knowledge of profanity and will be unrestricted to form sounds with their lips, jaws and tongues. They will also be taught that some (rare) individuals actually find these sounds offensive and need to be protected, don't want to hurt their precious ears. But if my son stubs his toe or bangs his knee as I just did and says "fuck, oh that hurts" I won't be running for the soap.

Bollocks!

Ahnimus

Offensive: causing displeasure or resentment

I am offended by censure and censor

We know offending people is wrong, isn't it?

What a stale, never-changing world that would be.

catefrances

when i find the word 'cunt' offensive (and i don't always), it is usually because of the violence employed when delivering it. i don't mean physical violence(though i'm not ruling that out). i'm talking about when it is aimed at someone, it's usually with an amount of anger attached.

now the word 'fuck', i don't generally find offensive. i use it frequently but never direct it at anyone i'm addressing. usually for me its use is adjectival.

know1

My opinion is that people who use profanity regularly are of low class...especially in public places (or public message boards) where anyone can hear.

even flow?

I curse like a mo/fo when I am not at work. I even amaze myself how I can make it through a workday and not have cursed once. Using the phone, conversing with staff, even with friends at lunch. But get me away from here and as know1 says, I become a scum who likes to use every filthy word under the sun. Not in public but with my friends.

Amazes me how us low class people can keep jobs and afford houses and raise children.

Byrnzie

know1 wrote:

My opinion is that people who use profanity regularly are of low class...especially in public places (or public message boards) where anyone can hear.

You mean 'where anyone can read'?

stuckinline

i am bi-lingual
i speak english AND profanity!

blackredyellow

know1 wrote:

My opinion is that people who use profanity regularly are of low class...especially in public places (or public message boards) where anyone can hear.

I wouldn't judge their "class", but if people use profanity a lot in public places where there are or could be children around, I think the person is just rude or ignorant... in somewhere like a bar, I could fuckin' care less, but in a store or at a baseball game or whatever, it bothers me a bit.

civ_eng_girl

know1 wrote:

My opinion is that people who use profanity regularly are of low class...especially in public places (or public message boards) where anyone can hear.

oh great.... another thread where we're all deemed dirtbags beause of some colourful vocabulary.... :rolleyes:

this is already reminicent of the tattoo thread.... whatever.

you've got a pretty broad brush that you like to paint people with....

NCfan

even flow? wrote:

I curse like a mo/fo when I am not at work. I even amaze myself how I can make it through a workday and not have cursed once. Using the phone, conversing with staff, even with friends at lunch. But get me away from here and as know1 says, I become a scum who likes to use every filthy word under the sun. Not in public but with my friends.

Amazes me how us low class people can keep jobs and afford houses and raise children.

Yeah, I love to curse. It makes me feel better becuase I feel as if I'm expressing myself better. I can turn it on and off like a light switch too. I don't curse in the innappropriate setting. But if the setting is fine, my mouth is as filthy as anybodys and I like it that way!

even flow?

NCfan wrote:

Yeah, I love to curse. It makes me feel better becuase I feel as if I'm expressing myself better. I can turn it on and off like a light switch too. I don't curse in the innappropriate setting. But if the setting is fine, my mouth is as filthy as anybodys and I like it that way!

WE HAVE SOMETHING IN COMMON!



Hey civeng: How about that last dinner at the Kitchen. Pure gutter talk for at least an hour. And the whole table was in tears.

blackredyellow

NCfan wrote:

Yeah, I love to curse. It makes me feel better becuase I feel as if I'm expressing myself better. I can turn it on and off like a light switch too. I don't curse in the innappropriate setting. But if the setting is fine, my mouth is as filthy as anybodys and I like it that way!

Speaking of turning it off and on like a lightswitch, the classic example of that for me is Eddie Johnston from the Pittsburgh Penguins. If you don't know him, he was an NHL goalie back in the day and has been a coach, general manager, asst gm, and now a "special assistant" or some title like that. Anyway, in private he uses "fuck" as like every third word kind of as a pause, but the second that a woman, or reporter, or stranger comes in the room, he turns it off in mid sentence and replaces it with "ummm".

Typical start to a story:
So that fuckin' guy comes in my fuckin' office and fuckin' sits down and fuckin' tells me that he fuckin' wants traded."

The same story if someone just walked in the room...
So that umm guy comes in my ummm office and ummm sits down and ummm tells me that he ummm wants traded."

civ_eng_girl

even flow? wrote:

WE HAVE SOMETHING IN COMMON!



Hey civeng: How about that last dinner at the Kitchen. Pure gutter talk for at least an hour. And the whole table was in tears.

lol! i seem to recall some taboo topics were discussed at our dinner on the Island as well!

I can only imagine what camping with your lady-friend will be like this weekend :eek: I'm sure there are sailors that would be shocked!

I also realize that I shouldn't have used the word "broad" in my previous post... it might be deemed offensive... :rolleyes:

Boom The Cat

Ahnimus wrote:

If someone says "fuck you!" they mean "I disagree with you" with a little sugar on top.

What a great quote


I swear alot, much of which I cannot help, but I try as hard as I can to not cuss in front of little kids, not because I want to protect their ears, just out of consideration for the parents.

I dont really care if I swear in front of adults, at their age they have probably heard it all before and dont think too much of it. I cant see why people would take offense to profanities not aimed at them personally.

Ahnimus

catefrances wrote:

when i find the word 'cunt' offensive (and i don't always), it is usually because of the violence employed when delivering it. i don't mean physical violence(though i'm not ruling that out). i'm talking about when it is aimed at someone, it's usually with an amount of anger attached.

I'm just curious if someone used the terms "vagina" or "moron" instead, would that make you just as upset?

jeffbr

civ_eng_girl wrote:

oh great.... another thread where we're all deemed dirtbags beause of some colourful vocabulary.... :rolleyes:

this is already reminicent of the tattoo thread.... whatever.

you've got a pretty broad brush that you like to paint people with....

Ah, shit. My fucking tattoos gave me away. I guess I really am a scumbag.

cornnifer

Where i come from, the community i grew up in, people curse. Plain and simple. Its cultural. i have no problem with it. i try, out of respect, not to do it around my children or people i know will be offended by it. Its not as easy for me to turn on and off though. i curse much more when i'm with my old friends from the neighborhood.
i feel, like was alluded to in the original post, that far more offensive, unwholesome things can be said without the use of a single "profane" syllable. Its the meaning and intent that makes language offensive. Being a Christian, as you can probably imagine, i've had some fairly interesting discussions with other Christians about this very topic. One guy went as far as to tell me i was a lousy Christian. i told him to "fuck off". Or, in other words, "be quiet and leave me alone"... with sugar on top.

melodious

know1 wrote:

My opinion is that people who use profanity regularly are of low class...especially in public places (or public message boards) where anyone can hear.

my arguement here k-1 is that people who use nothing but profanity have limited vocabulary and are frustrated. this is why education breaks down walls of domestic violence; if we can begin to communicate concisely and with clarity, then we won't be so apt to use one syllable wording. i use bad langauage when i'm upset; and my psyche goes into survival...man it's f*k this and f*k that; but when i'm a bit more level, i can find words to belittle an idea more effectively....we all have dictionaries and with this age of IT access, we have thesaurus as well..it's not about low class; it's more about knee jerk reaction as opposed to acting upon.....good to see ya, by the way..

melodious

Ahnimus wrote:

I'm just curious if someone used the terms "vagina" or "moron" instead, would that make you just as upset?

i'm just curious if a person cant use an * in the word, such as c*nt, so that as to show a bit of respect; can get point across just as effectively. mi: i get called moron all the time....i tend to think if ppl wanna bash each other; then perhaps he/she should find another site which is more tolerant to such behavior. there are some out there. it's a shame the m/t has to come to what has become; but it's all representative of anger and distrust that big whigs want us to experience to gether.....shake a hand; shake a hand....celebrate living and learning...