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Abstinance

AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
edited August 2006 in A Moving Train
In this corner, the pro-ignorance religious right, and in this corner the pro-facts liberals, fight!

Abstinance, Condoms and Masturbation.

Just a heads up, I heard several states in the US teach Abstinance Only sexual education. WTF?

Apparently there is very little education regarding the use of condoms. Which reduces the risk of the spread of disease to 1/500,000,000 while pregnancy is almost never, unless it's deteriated or punctured. That's why education is important.

Some 90% of teenagers do not practice abstinance even with abstinance only education. So the use of condoms should diffinately be taught.

Alternatively, masturbation never gave anyone an STD and no one has ever become pregnant either.

Fight!
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
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Comments

  • Eliot RosewaterEliot Rosewater Posts: 2,659
    what, are you some kind of pervert? sex is dirty and wrong....we all know that.
  • O-ren IshiiO-ren Ishii Posts: 57
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Just a heads up, I heard several states in the US teach Abstinance Only sexual education. WTF?

    Which states? I only ask because I thought that this was shot down in court. Then again, we do have Kansas, South Dakota, and Mississippi to name a few.
    ahnimus wrote:
    Alternatively, masturbation never gave anyone an STD and no one has ever become pregnant either.

    Or blind.
    We can evade reality, but we cannot evade the consequences of evading reality. - Ayn Rand
  • Pearls&StonesPearls&Stones Posts: 585
    The analogy I always make about ridiculous "abstinence only" education is this...

    Teenagers having sex is a big problem in America
    So is childhood obesity
    If we think "abstienence only" education works, why do't we also force schools to teach kids that food doesn't exist
    I love my female wife...
    we sit around and wonder exactly why our marriage should feel threatened by gay marriage
  • Eliot RosewaterEliot Rosewater Posts: 2,659
    Pearls&Stones wrote:
    The analogy I always make about ridiculous "abstinence only" education is this...

    Teenagers having sex is a big problem in America
    So is childhood obesity
    If we think "abstienence only" education works, why do't we also force schools to teach kids that food doesn't exist
    That's a great way to argue against this abstinence bullshit. It's just completely ridiculous that people think abstinence is even a realistic option.

    p.s. Lucky you getting to see PJ in Cleveland, it's one of my favorite boots and I've been listening to it a lot lately.
  • Pearl Jam and toastPearl Jam and toast Posts: 4,475
    In a related matter, according to Stephen Colbert, my state congress (North Carolina) shot down a bill saying that opposite sex couples cannot live together unless they're married. :p
    Come on pilgrim you know he loves you..

    http://www.wishlistfoundation.org

    Oh my, they dropped the leash.



    Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!

    "Make our day"
  • O-ren IshiiO-ren Ishii Posts: 57
    Pearl Jam and toast wrote:
    In a related matter, according to Stephen Colbert, my state congress (North Carolina) shot down a bill saying that opposite sex couples cannot live together unless they're married. :p

    Ah, ha! The all-too-rare voice of reason.
    We can evade reality, but we cannot evade the consequences of evading reality. - Ayn Rand
  • Pearls&StonesPearls&Stones Posts: 585
    I know anecdotal facts can be skewed to make them sound like whatever you want, but I found this interesting. Has anyone ever seen the teen pregnancy rates in "abstinence only" areas vs. other areas. Isn't it like 3-to-1 or something like that?
    I love my female wife...
    we sit around and wonder exactly why our marriage should feel threatened by gay marriage
  • EvilToasterElfEvilToasterElf Posts: 1,119
    O-ren Ishii wrote:
    Which states? I only ask because I thought that this was shot down in court. Then again, we do have Kansas, South Dakota, and Mississippi to name a few.



    Or blind.

    You would be very surprised. New York is one of them.

    You can only get Federal Funding for Abstinance only education - as of a half dozen years ago at least, most schools spend their own money for health textbooks and such.

    Their may be plenty of loopholes to the laws, I'm not an expert, but there are quite a few states that operate this way.
  • O-ren IshiiO-ren Ishii Posts: 57
    EvilToasterElf wrote:
    You would be very surprised. New York is one of them.

    You can only get Federal Funding for Abstinance only education - as of a half dozen years ago at least, most schools spend their own money for health textbooks and such.

    Their may be plenty of loopholes to the laws, I'm not an expert, but there are quite a few states that operate this way.

    Annoying.
    We can evade reality, but we cannot evade the consequences of evading reality. - Ayn Rand
  • O-ren IshiiO-ren Ishii Posts: 57
    http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2005/shelbyknox/special_overview.html
    While the research is not definitive, it does point towards some tentative conclusions. For that reason, Dr. Kirby titled his study Emerging Answers. The study concludes that while further research is necessary, there is good evidence that certain kinds of sex education programs can reduce teen pregnancy and STD infection rates, while other programs appeared to have no significant effects. Working with his co-authors, a group of researchers chosen to represent a diverse body of opinions (including conservative and liberal researchers), the study found ten characteristics of successful programs. Among those characteristics are a consistent, clear message about reducing risk; basic, accurate information about the risks of teen sexual activity and about ways of avoiding intercourse or using protective methods such as condoms; incorporate activities and behavioral goal-setting; last a sufficient amount of time; and involve teachers who are able to fulfill the program's goals.

    While Dr. Kirby's study does provide some encouragement by identifying programs that work to reduce pregnancy and STD infection rates — programs that incorporated comprehensive or abstinence-plus messages — it was unable to come to a significant conclusion about the effectiveness of abstinence-only curricula. While none of the programs judged effective in the Emerging Answers study were abstinence-only programs, the authors caution that no firm conclusions about such programs can be drawn until further research is done. One of the difficulties involved in that research stems from the fact that many abstinence-only programs have only been in place for a few years, while many schools have used comprehensive or abstinence-plus programs for longer periods. Increased funding for research on abstinence-only programs is expected in the next few years, and Dr. Kirby anticipates that more conclusive results on abstinence-only education may be available by 2006. Until that time, political division within the country, and tensions between groups with different views of sex education, will likely persist, ensuring that the subject remains controversial.

    I certainly have my suspicions about them, since abstinence-only curriculae are fairly new, we may need more time.
    We can evade reality, but we cannot evade the consequences of evading reality. - Ayn Rand
  • AbuskedtiAbuskedti Posts: 1,917
    bite my lip and close my eyes
  • enharmonicenharmonic Posts: 1,917
    I like to fuck. In fact, I'm gonna start my own movement.

    The FAA...Fuckers Against Abstinance.
    new music: http://www.myspace.com/blackbirdsymphonique

    old music: http://www.myspace.com/slowloader
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    enharmonic wrote:
    I like to fuck. In fact, I'm gonna start my own movement.

    The FAA...Fuckers Against Abstinance.

    Haha I like that one. You'd probably like this video
    http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-8503508975371819705&q=bullshit+abstinance
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Pearl Jam and toastPearl Jam and toast Posts: 4,475
    O-ren Ishii wrote:
    http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2005/shelbyknox/special_overview.html



    I certainly have my suspicions about them, since abstinence-only curriculae are fairly new, we may need more time.
    How can being uninformed about this possibly produce good results?

    Even if by some stroke of insanity the teen-pregnancy rates or STD rates drops because of it (which, cmon, use your common sense, that won't happen) it's still a terrible thing to have our kids uninformed about this stuff.

    Also, repressing sexuality leads to enormous problems... psychological like...
    Come on pilgrim you know he loves you..

    http://www.wishlistfoundation.org

    Oh my, they dropped the leash.



    Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!

    "Make our day"
  • Gary CarterGary Carter Posts: 14,067
    when masturbation lost its fun your fucking lazy
    Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
    Sammi: Wanna just break up?

  • Pearl Jam and toastPearl Jam and toast Posts: 4,475
    I remember when they were cool...

    Now Billy Joe has had a barcode intsalled on his ass to make it easier for him to sell out :rolleyes:
    Come on pilgrim you know he loves you..

    http://www.wishlistfoundation.org

    Oh my, they dropped the leash.



    Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!

    "Make our day"
  • RockinInCanadaRockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    I think a sex-ed program should encompass all forms of birth control, visual depictions of all STD's known to man (that will make something think twice of not wrapping it up). Well at the sametime stressing that absitence will eliminate your chances...however if you make the choice to have sex there a wide variety of contraceptives that will greatly reduce the risk...an abstinence only program is absurd at best.....

    However there will be some narrow minded parents opposed to depictions because of the graphic nature...however it should be noted that the majority of people learn through depiction....I saw pictures of shyphillis once and trust me you do not want to go there....
  • MCGMCG Posts: 780
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Abstinance, Condoms and Masturbation.

    Abstinance sucks - I feel bad for people who are scared into not having sex for whatever reason.

    Condoms are good - no diseases, no baby, no problems. Why kids don't use them is beyond me.

    Masturbation is great - nobody knows what I like better than I do.
    Which came first,
    the bad idea or me befallen by it?
  • DOSWDOSW Posts: 2,014
    I agree with the thread starter in that abstinence-only sex-ed is completely ineffective. But some of the things you said are very iffy:
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Apparently there is very little education regarding the use of condoms. Which reduces the risk of the spread of disease to 1/500,000,000 while pregnancy is almost never, unless it's deteriated or punctured.

    Key phrase there: unless it's deteriorated or punctured. That's where the danger is. Using a condom doesn't mean you have a 1/500,000,000 chance of anything going wrong.
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Some 90% of teenagers do not practice abstinance even with abstinance only education. So the use of condoms should diffinately be taught.

    90%? I think not. Where are you getting your statistics from?

    This is a good topic, but it seems like it was started in a very subjective and uneducated way.
    It's a town full of losers and I'm pulling out of here to win
  • The Waiting Trophy ManThe Waiting Trophy Man Niagara region, Ontario, Canada Posts: 12,158
    there's nothing worse than a girl that can't give a hand job.
    Another habit says it's in love with you
    Another habit says its long overdue
    Another habit like an unwanted friend
    I'm so happy with my righteous self
  • MCGMCG Posts: 780
    aBoxOfFear wrote:
    there's nothing worse than a girl that can't give a hand job.

    how about a girl that can't give a blow job? If there was no oral sex I wouldn't stick with that girl long.
    Which came first,
    the bad idea or me befallen by it?
  • Jeremy1012Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Alternatively, masturbation never gave anyone an STD and no one has ever become pregnant either.
    Re-read your vitalogy liner notes you silly person! Remind youself of the perils of submitting to the vice of self-pollution.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • cornnifercornnifer Posts: 2,130
    don't gimme no wrote:
    That's a great way to argue against this abstinence bullshit. It's just completely ridiculous that people think abstinence is even a realistic option.

    .

    Abstinence bullshit? I agree that abstinence only education is incomplete, and as such, dangerous. But how is abstinence bullshit? It is, in fact, the ONLY 100% effective means of disease and birth control, and, IMO opinion, those things are the least of worries for sexually promiscuous young people. What is ridiculous is the thought that abstinence is NOT a realistic option. Alot of kids are excercising that option these days. Again I don't endorse abstinence only education, but, calling abstinence "bullshit" is, well... bullshit.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • RockinInCanadaRockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    cornnifer wrote:
    Abstinence bullshit? I agree that abstinence only education is incomplete, and as such, dangerous. But how is abstinence bullshit? It is, in fact, the ONLY 100% effective means of disease and birth control, and, IMO opinion, those things are the least of worries for sexually promiscuous young people. What is ridiculous is the thought that abstinence is NOT a realistic option. Alot of kids are excercising that option these days. Again I don't endorse abstinence only education, but, calling abstinence "bullshit" is, well... bullshit.

    Thats why in my plan you would emphasize that the only way to 100% protect yourself is not to have sex...however if you choose here are the ways to protect yourself and if you choose not to use protection here are picture and symptoms of what you may get....that to me would be a great system....
  • cornnifercornnifer Posts: 2,130
    Rockin'InCanada wrote:
    Thats why in my plan you would emphasize that the only way to 100% protect yourself is not to have sex...however if you choose here are the ways to protect yourself and if you choose not to use protection here are picture and symptoms of what you may get....that to me would be a great system....


    works for me.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • The Waiting Trophy ManThe Waiting Trophy Man Niagara region, Ontario, Canada Posts: 12,158
    chiefojibwa wrote:
    i read an article in cosmo one time where a girl asked what the best way to give a hand job was.

    cosmo's response? "use your mouth"

    that's good advice. ;)
    Another habit says it's in love with you
    Another habit says its long overdue
    Another habit like an unwanted friend
    I'm so happy with my righteous self
  • The Waiting Trophy ManThe Waiting Trophy Man Niagara region, Ontario, Canada Posts: 12,158
    abstinance doesn't sound like it's very healthy. i mean, really - can people seriously go without "doing it". even to themselves?? it has to be impossible. everyone gets the urge. 50 bucks and my left nut says the pope whacks off. :cool:
    Another habit says it's in love with you
    Another habit says its long overdue
    Another habit like an unwanted friend
    I'm so happy with my righteous self
  • cornnifercornnifer Posts: 2,130
    aBoxOfFear wrote:
    abstinance doesn't sound like it's very healthy. i mean, really - can people seriously go without "doing it". even to themselves?? it has to be impossible. everyone gets the urge. 50 bucks and my left nut says the pope whacks off. :cool:

    I've never been under the impression that abstinence included the occasional game of tug-o-war with cyclops. One can be abstinate and still manually corral the tadpoles.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • not4unot4u Posts: 512
    an understanding of Reality is the best way to teach youth about sex.
    we don't want war, but we still want more?
  • improvgirl312improvgirl312 Posts: 40
    Ahnimus wrote:
    In this corner, the pro-ignorance religious right, and in this corner the pro-facts liberals, fight!

    Abstinance, Condoms and Masturbation.

    Just a heads up, I heard several states in the US teach Abstinance Only sexual education. WTF?

    Apparently there is very little education regarding the use of condoms. Which reduces the risk of the spread of disease to 1/500,000,000 while pregnancy is almost never, unless it's deteriated or punctured. That's why education is important.

    Some 90% of teenagers do not practice abstinance even with abstinance only education. So the use of condoms should diffinately be taught.

    Alternatively, masturbation never gave anyone an STD and no one has ever become pregnant either.

    Fight!

    Firstly, not everyone who practices abstinence is ignorant. I plan on abstaining until I am at least 18, and I've done my homework on the issue, thanks.

    All the same, every teen who is sexually active, or thinking about becoming sexually active deserves to know the facts about the risks of having sex and the proper use of contraceptives. In fact, all teens should know this. I'm glad I do.
    Once upon a time, there was a lovely little sausage called Baldrick, and it lived happily ever after. The End.
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