Consciousness as experience buffer.

baraka

Ahnimus wrote:

Give me a break Baraka. "The strict deterministic viewpoint is quite nice, isn't it? You don't have to accept responsibility for your actions. " that's bullshit. I know that hard determinism is right, because it is. There is no denying it.

LOL! It is you that should be giving all of us a break. It is not right, I'm afraid. I'm not saying that there isn't something to determinism in general, but your 'theory' is actually quite shotty. But, you are welcome to limit yourself and your potential by believing that rubbish. I have no doubt that it will become a reality to you.

Oh, and what did you find disturbing about my statement you quoted? Is it not true according to your 'theory'? The murder is not in control of his destiny, according your your theory. Your 'theory' allows you to blame other things for your failures (not you in particular) instead of looking at the most logical and obvious cause.

Ahnimus

baraka wrote:

LOL! It is you that should be giving all of us a break. It is not right, I'm afraid. I'm not saying that there isn't something to determinism in general, but your 'theory' is actually quite shotty. But, you are welcome to limit yourself and your potential by believing that rubbish. I have no doubt that it will become a reality to you.

Oh, and what did you find disturbing about my statement you quoted? Is it not true according to your 'theory'? The murder is not in control of his destiny, according your your theory. Your 'theory' allows you to blame other things for your failures (not you in particular) instead of looking at the most logical and obvious cause.

Tell me what is wrong with the theory? Don't just accuse me of trying absolve myself of moral responsibility.

Determinism doesn't allow me to blame other things for my failures. It enables to me recognize the causes of my failures and others. My focus is in understanding other's behavior as well as mine. It's free-will that is a selfish theory.

baraka

Ahnimus wrote:

Determinism doesn't allow me to blame other things for my failures. It enables to me recognize the causes of my failures and others. My focus is in understanding other's behavior as well as mine. It's free-will that is a selfish theory.

And once you've recognized the causes, then what? Why bother? It matters not, according you.

Ahnimus

baraka wrote:

And once you've recognized the causes, then what? Why bother? It matters not, according you.

That is so myopic. Think about it!

If I know that traumatic experiences can cause damage to the frontal lobe of the brain and/or the amygdala which results in violent behavior or hypersensitivity to stress. Then I correlate that with fMRI scans of criminals and notice that they have brain damage. I can understand how they got to be criminals, and how certain therapy can help to repair the damaged regions of the brain.

You just assume they decided to commit murder because they chose the unrighteous path of evil. Give me a fucking break. That is a selfish perspective. That implies that you make better decisions regardless of the differences in experiences. It's totally ignorant. Free-will is the weapon of envy and pride, not determinism.

baraka

Ahnimus wrote:

That is so myopic. Think about it!

If I know that traumatic experiences can cause damage to the frontal lobe of the brain and/or the amygdala which results in violent behavior or hypersensitivity to stress. Then I correlate that with fMRI scans of criminals and notice that they have brain damage. I can understand how they got to be criminals, and how certain therapy can help to repair the damaged regions of the brain.

You just assume they decided to commit murder because they chose the unrighteous path of evil. Give me a fucking break. That is a selfish perspective. That implies that you make better decisions regardless of the differences in experiences. It's totally ignorant. Free-will is the weapon of envy and pride, not determinism.

Oh Ahnimus...... It very simple really. Again, no one is discounting determinism outright. There, of course, are determining factors that influence us. It's just that some are better able to overcome those influences. Your little example above is correct, but it is just one example in many. It certainly is not a very good case for strict determinism. You need to learn to look at the 'evidence' or 'facts' in context to the bigger picture. And, do not assume to know why I think most murders choose murder. You are good at making bad assumptions and placing words in other's mouths. Like I mentioned above, there are many examples, all with different circumstances. And certainly there are those that are so incapacitated mentally they do not know right from wrong, and there are those who are 'brain damaged' and are sociopaths. But most of us do not fall in this category. Our triggers, or determining factors are stress, hate, jealousy, desperation, etc. These are things that cause bad behavior. But, at the end of the day, WE make our own choices, period. What you need to understand is there are MANY variables at play.

Your last paragraph here was a bit confused, I think. Of course, it is based on a wrong assumption. "That implies that you make better decisions regardless of the differences in experiences." This statement makes no sense, Ahnimus. There are many sappy stories of individuals that had all the odds stacked against them, only to rise above it, probably due to believing in themselves and making wise choices.

You never answered my question, btw.

Ahnimus

baraka wrote:

Oh Ahnimus...... It very simple really. Again, no one is discounting determinism outright. There, of course, are determining factors that influence us. It's just that some are better able to overcome those influences. Your little example above is correct, but it is just one example in many. It certainly is not a very good case for strict determinism. You need to learn to look at the 'evidence' or 'facts' in context to the bigger picture. And, do not assume to know why I think most murders choose murder. You are good at making bad assumptions and placing words in other's mouths. Like I mentioned above, there are many examples, all with different circumstances. And certainly there are those that are so incapacitated mentally they do not know right from wrong, and there are those who are 'brain damaged' and are sociopaths. But most of us do not fall in this category. Our triggers, or determining factors are stress, hate, jealousy, desperation, etc. These are things that cause bad behavior. But, at the end of the day, WE make our own choices, period. What you need to understand is there are MANY variables at play.

Your last paragraph here was a bit confused, I think. Of course, it is based on a wrong assumption. "That implies that you make better decisions regardless of the differences in experiences." This statement makes no sense, Ahnimus. There are many sappy stories of individuals that had all the odds stacked against them, only to rise above it, probably due to believing in themselves and making wise choices.

You never answered my question, btw.

Moderate determinism is not possible. Simply because you do not know why some choose differently than others is not evidence of Free-will. It's only evidence of your ignorance. Who is the "WE" that makes the choice? Is it not your brain? Is it not subject to determination? Then what the hell are you talking about?

baraka

Ahnimus wrote:

Moderate determinism is not possible. Simply because you do not know why some choose differently than others is not evidence of Free-will. It's only evidence of your ignorance. Who is the "WE" that makes the choice? Is it not your brain? Is it not subject to determination? Then what the hell are you talking about?

I'm not sure you know what you are discussing, Ahnimus, to be honest, contradictions left and right. Your argument is circular and when you can not address the points directed at you, you resort to projection. You answer questions with irrelevant questions and copy & pasted statements. Get a grasp on what you are discussing. You are emotional and I think this is clouding your logic and debating technique. I do not buy your argument, at least not from the shotty case you've presented. Get a hold of yourself, man!

Ahnimus

baraka wrote:

I'm not sure you know what you are discussing, Ahnimus, to be honest, contradictions left and right. Your argument is circular and when you can not address the points directed at you, you resort to projection. You answer questions with irrelevant questions and copy & pasted statements. Get a grasp on what you are discussing. You are emotional and I think this is clouding your logic and debating technique. I do not buy your argument, at least not from the shotty case you've presented. Get a hold of yourself, man!

That's absolutely absurd.

I am providing a causal understanding of how people make decisions. The opposition simply states "We have free-will" without providing any causation for "free-will" so your assertion is completely opposite to what is actually going on.