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Savantism

AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
edited July 2007 in A Moving Train
An autistic savant (historically described as idiot savant) is a person with both autism and Savant Syndrome. Savant Syndrome describes a person having both a severe developmental or mental handicap and extraordinary mental abilities not found in most people. The Savant Syndrome skills involve striking feats of memory and often include arithmetic calculation and sometimes unusual abilities in art or music.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savantism

Kim Peek: The Real Rain Man
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Peek
Youtube Video
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Google Video
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6767261625889336539

Daniel Tammet: The Boy With The Incredible Brain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Tammet
Youtube Video
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5

Additional Reading Material
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthesia
Synaesthesia--a window into perception, thought and language
Psychophysical investigations in to the neural basis of synaesthesia
Synaesthesia in phantom limbs induced with mirrors


Notes
Autistic Savant Syndrome abbreviated Savantism and formerly known as Idiot Savant Syndrome is a very fascinating window into the human brain. I read up on it and watched these vids a few months ago and stumbled upon them again and thought I would share.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • barakabaraka Posts: 1,268
    I find this guy interesting http://www.mymultiplesclerosis.co.uk/misc/danieltammet.html

    He appears to be a savant, but not necessarily an autistic-savant due to his enhanced social and communication skills.
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    yeah....yeah...must post on PJ....yeah....yeah... :D

    me before the operation:
    http://www.gonemovies.com/WWW/XsFilms/SnelPlaatjes/ActHoffmanRainman.jpg

    It is fascinating. All these guys seem to be grossly inept in social abilities. I think (possibly) it goes to show how much brain power is required to just to be "normal"

    I say we genetically breed these guys into a gene pool to create a fleet of Einsteins.

    We all do this automatically based on looks anyways, so why not look beyond the superficial, and have the brains to really develop our brains.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • barakabaraka Posts: 1,268
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    I say we genetically breed these guys into a gene pool to create a fleet of Einsteins.

    Autistic-savantism is not the same as genius. They are extremely different things. Autistic-savants aren't "intelligent" in the way a genius is. Their abilities are narrow in scope and they, themselves, don't have any insight into what they're doing. They just do it, and are not able to analyze how, or even explain why. They can't connect what they're doing with a larger picture. In the film Rainman, you may remember that, although Raymond could instantly count the number of toothpicks that had spilled, he had no sense whatever of what the concept of "amount" meant, how it applied in the most rudimentary way to daily life. When asked how much a candy bar cost he replied "About a hundred dollars." When asked how much a car cost he said "About a hundred dollars."

    A genius on the other hand is super conscious of the bigger picture and is aware of connections the average individual is not.
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    baraka wrote:
    Autistic-savantism is not the same as genius. They are extremely different things. Autistic-savants aren't "intelligent" in the way a genius is. Their abilities are narrow in scope and they, themselves, don't have any insight into what they're doing. They just do it, and are not able to analyze how, or even explain why. They can't connect what they're doing with a larger picture. In the film Rainman, you may remember that, although Raymond could instantly count the number of toothpicks that had spilled, he had no sense whatever of what the concept of "amount" meant, how it applied in the most rudimentary way to daily life. When asked how much a candy bar cost he replied "About a hundred dollars." When asked how much a car cost he said "About a hundred dollars."

    A genius on the other hand is super conscious of the bigger picture and is aware of connections the average individual is not.

    I didn't say interbreed ;):) but I hear ya
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • barakabaraka Posts: 1,268
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    I didn't say interbreed ;):) but I hear ya

    I know what you mean. ;):)
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    baraka wrote:
    I know what you mean. ;):)

    I liked the article you posted. Reciting Pi to 22,500+ decimal places..absolutely incredible.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • barakabaraka Posts: 1,268
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    I liked the article you posted. Reciting Pi to 22,500+ decimal places..absolutely incredible.

    I know! I'm equally intrigued by the ones that express some sort of musical or artistic talent.
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    baraka wrote:
    I know! I'm equally intrigued by the ones that express some sort of musical or artistic talent.

    This kid is living Mozart:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Greenberg

    http://www.jaygreenbergmusic.com/
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    Yea, I totally posted info about Tammet, and the documentary about him.

    This guy is making a documentary about Rett Syndrome http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SnPB_ELTIk
    http://www.nikkithedocumentary.com/
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • surferdudesurferdude Posts: 2,057
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    I say we genetically breed these guys into a gene pool to create a fleet of Einsteins.
    A genius with no social skills is absolutely useless. That was part of Einsteins gift, he had people skills, he could sell you on his fantastic ideas, he could inspire and awe you. These skills are just as important as the "thinking" skills.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    While Eintsein was capable of social interaction he required a certain amount of solitude.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    Kim Peek has agensis of the corpus callosum

    However, in 1999, further analysis by a team at McMaster University in Ontario revealed that Einstein's parietal operculum region was missing. The operculum is part of the inferior frontal gyrus of the frontal lobe in the brain. The inferior frontal gyrus borders the lateral sulcus (Sylvian fissure) below. The Sylvian fissure was partially absent from Einstein's brain. Researchers at McMaster University believe this may have enabled neurons in this part of his brain to communicate better. "This unusual brain anatomy…(the missing part of the Sylvian fissure)… may explain why Einstein thought the way he did," said Professor Sandra Witelson who led the research published in The Lancet. Einstein himself claimed that he thought through images rather than verbally. As of now this is unproven. Professor Laurie Hall of Cambridge University commenting on the study, said, "To say there is a definite link is one bridge too far, at the moment. So far the case isn't proven. But magnetic resonance and other new technologies are allowing us to start to probe those very questions." [6]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein's_brain

    It's possible Einstein had some localized agenesis of the corpus callosum or other form of Synaesthesia to compensate for missing brain regions. From what I understand, Einstein as a child, cared more about discovering truths than he did impressing his family and friends. He often demonstrably unveiled the delusions of common prejudices.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • OutOfBreathOutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    But Einstein quite clearly had people skills. That's why he is, and will continue to be remembered, and other just as smart people with important theories may not be. Part of being a genius is not only understanding complex things that are hard for most to grasp, but also the ability to communicate it in a good manner. That's my thoughts on that anyway.

    As for savants, I find the subject very interesting. I have worked for years with "regular" autists, and find what they do, the way they seem to think and how their world works to be nothing short of fascinating. Seeing their total dependence on predictability and routine, has made it easier to see those aspects in myself, and in other people. But my guys dont have any savant skills (although I have looked for them, being aware of savantism), although they do have a knack for certain things, but most likely just out of long single-minded practice. Such as balancing stuff and so on.

    I'm about to quit working with these guys, as soon as I get a job I'm educated for, which it seems may be very near these days. I'll miss them, even if they have roughed me up from time to time, or just driven me nuts with their behaviour.

    I'm drifting off topic I think, so I'll stop there. :)

    Peace
    Dan
    "YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death

    "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    OutOfBreath wrote:
    But Einstein quite clearly had people skills. That's why he is, and will continue to be remembered, and other just as smart people with important theories may not be. Part of being a genius is not only understanding complex things that are hard for most to grasp, but also the ability to communicate it in a good manner. That's my thoughts on that anyway.

    As for savants, I find the subject very interesting. I have worked for years with "regular" autists, and find what they do, the way they seem to think and how their world works to be nothing short of fascinating. Seeing their total dependence on predictability and routine, has made it easier to see those aspects in myself, and in other people. But my guys dont have any savant skills (although I have looked for them, being aware of savantism), although they do have a knack for certain things, but most likely just out of long single-minded practice. Such as balancing stuff and so on.

    I'm about to quit working with these guys, as soon as I get a job I'm educated for, which it seems may be very near these days. I'll miss them, even if they have roughed me up from time to time, or just driven me nuts with their behaviour.

    I'm drifting off topic I think, so I'll stop there. :)

    Peace
    Dan

    I would think I would enjoy working with autistics as well, though I'm not sure I have the patience to be a care-giver. Good work homes.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    pritty damn amazing.
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
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