What is "Intelligence"?

2

Comments

  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    ummmm, yeah, you did...

    Actually no I didn't. How does a human recognize itself? And I don't mean by looking in the mirror, although that may be a start.

    "Intelligence" is language based, therefore it is a design of humans for humans.

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  • macgyver06macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    gue_barium wrote:
    I didn't say they do.

    a horse would eat that apple if it had rolled through shit..thats a lack of intelligence.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    macgyver06 wrote:
    a horse would eat that apple if it had rolled through shit..thats a lack of intelligence.

    No, that's a horse.

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  • macgyver06macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    what about this..


    simple...


    The ability to use what you've learned in the past along with the ability to decipher happenings on the present and sometimes future possibilities, this of course leading to educated decisions on experiences learned in the past. Being able to sort these out collectively to form a reasoning, a style, a system to guide through your life the best way you apparently know how.
  • macgyver06macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    gue_barium wrote:
    No, that's a horse.


    disease ridden shit can kill a horse.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    macgyver06 wrote:
    what about this..


    simple...


    The ability to use what you've learned in the past along with the ability to decipher happenings on the present and sometimes future possibilities, this of course leading to educated decisions on experiences learned in the past. Being able to sort these out collectively to form a reasoning, a style, a system to guide through your life the best way you apparently know how.

    That's nicely said. That is awareness of Time.

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  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    macgyver06 wrote:
    disease ridden shit can kill a horse.

    Tell it to the horse.

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  • macgyver06macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    gue_barium wrote:
    Tell it to the horse.

    what are you getting at... horses could care less if they die?
  • freedomboyfreedomboy Posts: 129
    Ahnimus wrote:
    The debate on ethnic differences in IQ testing has me wondering... At the beginning of the chapter on Intelligence in Schaffer's Fifth Edition Developmental Psychology he states:

    Go out and ask five people to summarize in a single sentence what intelligence means to them, and then, to list up to five attributes characterizing highly intelligent people.

    I would share my thoughts on this after reading the book, but I'll save that for later. Right now, I'd like at least five people to provide the above-mentioned criteria.

    To me, intelligence means nothing. Anyone can come to the same conclusion given time. IQ testing is culturally biased anyway. However, I believe the technical meaning is the rate and accuracy in which one's brain is able to come to the most logical conclusion in a situation.

    1. quick
    2. observant
    3. calculating
    4. objective
    5. accurate
    Freedom is a state of mind...
  • macgyver06macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    gue_barium wrote:
    Tell it to the horse.

    Are you suggesting that coconuts Migrate?
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    macgyver06 wrote:
    Are you suggesting that coconuts Migrate?

    If you hollow them out and make them into a raft...sounds possible. :)

    You're the MacGyver here.

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  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    Thanks for the replies.

    As a determinist; there is nothing about humans that is more intelligent than a rock. We are a series of nerve cells interacting with each other to create our phenomenology.

    Phenomenologically speaking; intelligence is real. Intelligence is manifested in our behaviour. How we - as agents - interact with our environments. For example, the Wii game Big Brain Academy has 'students' perform a series of different exercises and tests to build and evaluate specific routines. "Bubble Burst" is a simple game of choosing the right numbered bubbles in a sequence of lowest to highest - I have some difficulty with performing this task. While "Train Turn" I find quite easy. "Train Turn" is an incomplete set of tracks, the player must choose between "Left" "Straight and "Right" segments to complete the track to it's destination (Red Arrow). On "Expert" difficulty the track is completed in reverse while the entire image rotates clockwise. I can complete any track within seconds 100% of the time. "Easy" "Medium" "Hard" and "Expert" difficulties are equally as simple for me. While "Bubble Burst" remains a seemingly impossible challenge.

    It seems that it's easier for me to use spatial reasoning than it is to sequence objects. This is an example of why I don't believe in a General Intelligence. Additionally, while I had difficulty acheiving a bronze medal initially on "Bubble Burst" I am now striving for a Platinum medal, having already acheived Gold. It seems apparent that not only is intelligence disparate, but it's also plastic. If I stop playing the game - which I will do when I get all platinums - I will eventually lose the skills necessary to achieve what I already have. Does playing this game increase my general abilities to perform these tasks? Or does it just increase my abilities to play the specific games? I would suggest it's a little bit of both, clearly my spatial abilities have assisted me in acheiving platinum medals on all the "Train Turn" difficulties. Yet, there was still a learning experience of figuring out how the game is played.

    IQ tests are a little flimsy IMO. I've scored anywhere from 115 to 150 on the same IQ tests. Usually with a declining score on subsequent tests, which is counterintuitive, I should get better, not worse, and 35 points is a lot of variation. I don't think there is a way to accurately measure "Intelligence" but I don't discredit IQ testing completely, it remains a semi-reliable predictor of future IQ test results and academic performance.

    I have some difficulty determining 5 attributes of intelligence. In Big Brain Academy the categories are: "Visualize", "Memorize", "Identify", "Compute" and "Analyze". Within each category are 3 exercises, and my test results vary from exercise to exercise within each category. Indicating that a general ability to "Visualize" does not guarantee success at any one of the individual exercises.

    It's very hard to quantify "Intelligence" and I think the idea is tossed around far too loosely. Though, I myself am a culprit of this fallacy. It's primary use is to socially prop-up one's self or degrade an opposition.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus wrote:
    Thanks for the replies.

    As a determinist; there is nothing about humans that is more intelligent than a rock. We are a series of nerve cells interacting with each other to create our phenomenology.

    Phenomenologically speaking; intelligence is real. Intelligence is manifested in our behaviour. How we - as agents - interact with our environments. For example, the Wii game Big Brain Academy has 'students' perform a series of different exercises and tests to build and evaluate specific routines. "Bubble Burst" is a simple game of choosing the right numbered bubbles in a sequence of lowest to highest - I have some difficulty with performing this task. While "Train Turn" I find quite easy. "Train Turn" is an incomplete set of tracks, the player must choose between "Left" "Straight and "Right" segments to complete the track to it's destination (Red Arrow). On "Expert" difficulty the track is completed in reverse while the entire image rotates clockwise. I can complete any track within seconds 100% of the time. "Easy" "Medium" "Hard" and "Expert" difficulties are equally as simple for me. While "Bubble Burst" remains a seemingly impossible challenge.

    It seems that it's easier for me to use spatial reasoning than it is to sequence objects. This is an example of why I don't believe in a General Intelligence. Additionally, while I had difficulty acheiving a bronze medal initially on "Bubble Burst" I am now striving for a Platinum medal, having already acheived Gold. It seems apparent that not only is intelligence disparate, but it's also plastic. If I stop playing the game - which I will do when I get all platinums - I will eventually lose the skills necessary to achieve what I already have. Does playing this game increase my general abilities to perform these tasks? Or does it just increase my abilities to play the specific games? I would suggest it's a little bit of both, clearly my spatial abilities have assisted me in acheiving platinum medals on all the "Train Turn" difficulties. Yet, there was still a learning experience of figuring out how the game is played.

    IQ tests are a little flimsy IMO. I've scored anywhere from 115 to 150 on the same IQ tests. Usually with a declining score on subsequent tests, which is counterintuitive, I should get better, not worse, and 35 points is a lot of variation. I don't think there is a way to accurately measure "Intelligence" but I don't discredit IQ testing completely, it remains a semi-reliable predictor of future IQ test results and academic performance.

    I have some difficulty determining 5 attributes of intelligence. In Big Brain Academy the categories are: "Visualize", "Memorize", "Identify", "Compute" and "Analyze". Within each category are 3 exercises, and my test results vary from exercise to exercise within each category. Indicating that a general ability to "Visualize" does not guarantee success at any one of the individual exercises.

    It's very hard to quantify "Intelligence" and I think the idea is tossed around far too loosely. Though, I myself am a culprit of this fallacy. It's primary use is to socially prop-up one's self or degrade an opposition.
    wow! all this was inspired by a Wii game??? i gotta get me one of those!
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    wow! all this was inspired by a Wii game??? i gotta get me one of those!

    I just used it as an example, but the Wii is pretty sweet. I just rented Prince of Persia: Rival Swords and I'm liking it a lot.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • spongersponger Posts: 3,159
    The case of einstein's brain pretty much sums up my opinion on this subject. There's no doubt that the man was a full-fledged genius.

    So, as you may already know, his brain was sliced up into cubes and thoroughly analyzed after he was done using it.

    Well, as it turned out, the part of his brain that is known to process language was undersized. This is thought to explain why he was known to be somewhat socially inept.

    However, the part of is brain that performs computations and visualizes problems was 15% larger than the average.

    Another difference between his and normal brain was that the canal that runs down the center of the brain and divides the left and right hemispheres was very shallow, comparatively speaking.

    So, it's thought that the two hemispheres of brain probably were able to communicate more easily as a result, and is considered to be the explanation for why Einstein described his thoughts as being very abstract and hard to describe.

    So, IMO, intelligence is simply a matter of being better equipped.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    sponger wrote:
    So, IMO, intelligence is simply a matter of being better equipped.

    Or, just "wired" a little differently.

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  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    sponger wrote:
    The case of einstein's brain pretty much sums up my opinion on this subject. There's no doubt that the man was a full-fledged genius.

    So, as you may already know, his brain was sliced up into cubes and thoroughly analyzed after he was done using it.

    Well, as it turned out, the part of his brain that is known to process language was undersized. This is thought to explain why he was known to be somewhat socially inept.

    However, the part of is brain that performs computations and visualizes problems was 15% larger than the average.

    Another difference between his and normal brain was that the canal that runs down the center of the brain and divides the left and right hemispheres was very shallow, comparatively speaking.

    So, it's thought that the two hemispheres of brain probably were able to communicate more easily as a result, and is considered to be the explanation for why Einstein described his thoughts as being very abstract and hard to describe.

    So, IMO, intelligence is simply a matter of being better equipped.

    The part you described sounds like the Corpus Callosum.

    As I understand it, Einstein had a mild agenesis of the corpus callosum

    He may have also had Synesthesia

    Though many of the claims about Einstein's brain remain mere speculation.

    I definitely agree that Einstein was not a big people person. He liked people but required his alone time.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
    To me intelligence is simply having some Common Sense.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • Never supersize the second big mac combo if you're eating all by yourself...

    and sure as hell skip the sundaes...
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    g under p wrote:
    To me intelligence is simply having some Common Sense.

    Peace

    What is "Common Sense"?

    Common sense (or, when used attributively as an adjective, commonsense, common-sense, or commonsensical), based on a strict construction of the term, is what people in common would agree: that which they "sense" in common as their common natural understanding. Some use the phrase to refer to beliefs or propositions that in their opinion they consider would in most people's experience be prudent and of sound judgment, without dependence upon esoteric knowledge or study or research, but based upon what is believed to be knowledge held by people "in common", so: the knowledge and experience most people have, or are believed to have by the person using the term.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • I'm siding with Animus on pretty much all of what the has to say . The touchy feely part isn't as developed as I'm used to, or would like to see, but the the sheer logicity (heh... new word) and raw intelligence, is definitely above par and worth digest.

    Alas...I believe speak to two audiences (one many ...one singular), and for the benefit of both.

    In both cases...let it come naturally.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Ahnimus wrote:
    What is "Common Sense"?

    Common sense (or, when used attributively as an adjective, commonsense, common-sense, or commonsensical), based on a strict construction of the term, is what people in common would agree: that which they "sense" in common as their common natural understanding. Some use the phrase to refer to beliefs or propositions that in their opinion they consider would in most people's experience be prudent and of sound judgment, without dependence upon esoteric knowledge or study or research, but based upon what is believed to be knowledge held by people "in common", so: the knowledge and experience most people have, or are believed to have by the person using the term.

    So then, yeah, common sense is intelligent/intelligence.

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  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Ahnimus wrote:
    The part you described sounds like the Corpus Callosum.

    As I understand it, Einstein had a mild agenesis of the corpus callosum

    He may have also had Synesthesia

    Though many of the claims about Einstein's brain remain mere speculation.

    I definitely agree that Einstein was not a big people person. He liked people but required his alone time.

    I've read that he was a surf maniac.

    *Edited for adult content.

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  • barakabaraka Posts: 1,268
    It seems to me that the fundamental definition of intelligence is that it is a measure of one's ability to perform with new information. That is, if exactly the same information is available to two different people, the one who can make better use of that information is the more intelligent of the two. It is the difficulty of assuring that both parties are in possession of exactly the same information which makes intelligence so difficult to measure.
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • barakabaraka Posts: 1,268
    Some dude named Howard Gardner has a Multiple Intelligence Theory which is interesting. http://www.infed.org/thinkers/gardner.htm

    He has a list of a list of seven intelligences (from the above link):

    Linguistic intelligence involves sensitivity to spoken and written language, the ability to learn languages, and the capacity to use language to accomplish certain goals. This intelligence includes the ability to effectively use language to express oneself rhetorically or poetically; and language as a means to remember information. Writers, poets, lawyers and speakers are among those that Howard Gardner sees as having high linguistic intelligence.

    Logical-mathematical intelligence consists of the capacity to analyze problems logically, carry out mathematical operations, and investigate issues scientifically. In Howard Gardner's words, in entails the ability to detect patterns, reason deductively and think logically. This intelligence is most often associated with scientific and mathematical thinking.

    Musical intelligence involves skill in the performance, composition, and appreciation of musical patterns. It encompasses the capacity to recognize and compose musical pitches, tones, and rhythms. According to Howard Gardner musical intelligence runs in an almost structural parallel to linguistic intelligence.

    Bodily-kinesthetic intelligence entails the potential of using one's whole body or parts of the body to solve problems. It is the ability to use mental abilities to coordinate bodily movements. Howard Gardner sees mental and physical activity as related.

    Spatial intelligence involves the potential to recognize and use the patterns of wide space and more confined areas.

    Interpersonal intelligence is concerned with the capacity to understand the intentions, motivations and desires of other people. It allows people to work effectively with others. Educators, salespeople, religious and political leaders and counsellors all need a well-developed interpersonal intelligence.

    Intrapersonal intelligence entails the capacity to understand oneself, to appreciate one's feelings, fears and motivations. In Howard Gardner's view it involves having an effective working model of ourselves, and to be able to use such information to regulate our lives.
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    baraka wrote:
    It seems to me that the fundamental definition of intelligence is that it is a measure of one's ability to perform with new information. That is, if exactly the same information is available to two different people, the one who can make better use of that information is the more intelligent of the two. It is the difficulty of assuring that both parties are in possession of exactly the same information which makes intelligence so difficult to measure.

    See, though, information is intelligence. I think you may be blurring the line of intelligence with the ability to learn. Teaching somebody how to think ... is incredibley difficult. At least, that's what I've heard.

    I like your Gardner post.

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  • barakabaraka Posts: 1,268
    gue_barium wrote:
    See, though, information is intelligence. I think you may be blurring the line of intelligence with the ability to learn. Teaching somebody how to think ... is incredibley difficult. At least, that's what I've heard.

    I like your Gardner post.

    I would say that intelligence requires knowledge or information, but is not equal to it. Perhaps intelligence is knowledge being used in a creative form. I wouldn't say that information is synonymous to intelligence, though. Perhaps you can expound on the difference between 'intelligence' and the 'ability to learn'.

    How about this definition: Intelligence is the mental capacity to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, comprehend ideas and language, and learn.

    I wouldn't say that knowledge and experience are equivalent to intelligence, because in my opinion intelligence is more of a reflex rather than something learned. In terms of intelligence and ability to handle new problems, I think it's a lot like the ability to dance or excel in a particular sport. Some of it's innate, some of it's practice. Some people are born good at it, and then beaten by those who aren't, but who've practiced hard.
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    baraka wrote:
    I would say that intelligence requires knowledge or information, but is not equal to it. Perhaps intelligence is knowledge being used in a creative form. I wouldn't say that information is synonymous to intelligence, though. Perhaps you can expound on the difference between 'intelligence' and the 'ability to learn'.

    How about this definition: Intelligence is the mental capacity to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, comprehend ideas and language, and learn.

    I wouldn't say that knowledge and experience are equivalent to intelligence, because in my opinion intelligence is more of a reflex rather than something learned. In terms of intelligence and ability to handle new problems, I think it's a lot like the ability to dance or excel in a particular sport. Some of it's innate, some of it's practice. Some people are born good at it, and then beaten by those who aren't, but who've practiced hard.

    You're smarter than I am.

    The thing I see about Gardner's MI view is that in place of the word intelligence he could have easily used the word aptitude. Intelligence just sounds prettier.

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  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    baraka wrote:
    I would say that intelligence requires knowledge or information, but is not equal to it. Perhaps intelligence is knowledge being used in a creative form. I wouldn't say that information is synonymous to intelligence, though. Perhaps you can expound on the difference between 'intelligence' and the 'ability to learn'.

    How about this definition: Intelligence is the mental capacity to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, comprehend ideas and language, and learn.

    I wouldn't say that knowledge and experience are equivalent to intelligence, because in my opinion intelligence is more of a reflex rather than something learned. In terms of intelligence and ability to handle new problems, I think it's a lot like the ability to dance or excel in a particular sport. Some of it's innate, some of it's practice. Some people are born good at it, and then beaten by those who aren't, but who've practiced hard.

    What do you make of this:

    "Intelligent life on other planets."

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  • lucylespianlucylespian Posts: 2,403
    How does a human eating an apple or drinking water display more intelligent behavior than a horse doing the same thing?

    They may have grown the apple, dug for the water, or purified it, or stored during a dry period, or cooled it, they may have done the smae things for the appl, or even , made it a better apple, since "natural" aples are small bitter things whihc last a few weeks at best.
    An apple as you know it is a creation of human intelligence.


    PArt of teh definition of intelligence should includ ethe ability to produce new knowledge, be it derived or entirely novel.
    Music is not a competetion.
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