Seven U.S. marines, sailor charged with murder

El_Kabong

Purple Hawk wrote:

Again to repeat...I didn't ask for a list of claims...I asked for evidence of LIES

if you would read them you would see the lies

the first link is from the white house's site w/ the claim about the IAEA report saying iraq is 6 months away from a nuke

the 2nd link is from the nuclear control institute's site w. the IAEA's response saying they never issued a report saying that

the 3rd link is the iaea's site w/ their report on iraq

what exactly are you looking for?

Abuskedti

deliberate deception is a lie. Manipulation of fact presented in an attempt to provoke a predetermined reaction is a lie.

The assertion that possession of chemical weapons by Iraq presented a significant threat to the United States is inaccurate. The elaborate presentation of Iraqs obsession and advancement of chemical weapons was not only not true - it was irrelevant. Yet they played this up daily and used it as a reason to invade a country.

would you call that a white lie? not a big deal?

know1

If proven guilty on these charges, these individuals deserve the appropriate punishment.

Let's face it, there's at least a percentage of people who sign up for the military that do so because the thought of killing gives them their kicks. Apparently, these guys were part of that element.

Abuskedti

know1 wrote:

If proven guilty on these charges, these individuals deserve the appropriate punishment.

Let's face it, there's at least a percentage of people who sign up for the military that do so because the thought of killing gives them their kicks. Apparently, these guys were part of that element.

everyone deserves "appropriate" punishment - I guess the question is "what is appropriate"

doubtful your second claim is true - save for the last three years... there was very little opportunity to kill people in the US military after Vietnam.

I guess the young guys enlisting in the army knowing they are going to Iraq serves a good purpose.. if they hate their lives and are considering suicide - or facing a life of despair... the war is a good option. So lets be wise and not use folks that enlisted since 9-11 as representative of military people - and more representative of Bush supporters

blackredyellow

El_Kabong wrote:

if you would read them you would see the lies

the first link is from the white house's site w/ the claim about the IAEA report saying iraq is 6 months away from a nuke

the 2nd link is from the nuclear control institute's site w. the IAEA's response saying they never issued a report saying that

the 3rd link is the iaea's site w/ their report on iraq

what exactly are you looking for?

Apparently for Purple Hawk, making shit up does not equal lies...

know1

Abuskedti wrote:

everyone deserves "appropriate" punishment - I guess the question is "what is appropriate"

doubtful your second claim is true - save for the last three years... there was very little opportunity to kill people in the US military after Vietnam.

I guess the young guys enlisting in the army knowing they are going to Iraq serves a good purpose.. if they hate their lives and are considering suicide - or facing a life of despair... the war is a good option. So lets be wise and not use folks that enlisted since 9-11 as representative of military people - and more representative of Bush supporters

Appropriate is whatever was agreed upon for a similar crime.

You think you're being "wise" by saying that people who enlisted since 9/11 are Bush supporters?

And yes, I believe some people who enter the military are fascinated, intrigued, or whatever by guns, violence and killing.

Abuskedti

know1 wrote:

Appropriate is whatever was agreed upon for a similar crime.

You think you're being "wise" by saying that people who enlisted since 9/11 are Bush supporters?

And yes, I believe some people who enter the military are fascinated, intrigued, or whatever by guns, violence and killing.

many bought into his lies... some unwitting supporters.. but supporters just the same.

agreed? we rarely agree

I am facinated, intrigued by guns violence and killing... I am also shocked and ashamed of fellow humans and how they use them

Eliot Rosewater

StupidHumanBeings wrote:

I would not server because I beleive there is nothing to be accomplished there and I do not want to die for that nothing. However I seriously doubt that any soilder joined or is now joining with the purpose of "invasions of other countries" most of them sadly is because they want their educations paid for if it dose not cost them their life or limb, wanted to truly defend this nation (mostly previous to Iraq and certanly not with the intetion of what's going on over there), or sadly beleve that there is still good to be acomplished over there.

This supports a previously mentioned theory (actually that may have been on the Hadji Girl Video thread) that there are only three reasons that someone would join the U.S. military.
1. Poverty
2. Ignorance
3. Stupidity
Now I'm not saying I'm sold on that theory, but I've yet to find a reason that doesn't fall within one of those categories.

Eliot Rosewater

MrBrian wrote:

Look, I understand that, but at the end it's just a simple fact that what they are doing in iraq is not good for america or the world.

I mean you can hope all you want about why they joined or what they think they are doing but really, the fact remains....

Also all they had to do is look at the history of the US military and the history of the american government to see that joining the US military is really about invasions and oppression and so on. It's not like before Iraq the US was going country to country planting flowers.

They joined a gang, for money? maybe i'm sure some of them did, but mc donalds is always looking for people. What I mean by that is, the army is by far not the only choice. Or is it?

But I do feel bad in some way for them.

Great post. I feel bad for them too because they're obviously incapable of making a no-brainer decision to stay the fuck out of the U.S. military.

And you're exactly right about the history of the country and the military. America has been trying to gain more and more power and land since it's inception, invading, occupying, and terrorizing those they see fit....all in the name of freedom and democracy. The irony is sickening.

Commy

MrBrian wrote:

I know so?

But you need to meet "commy"

haha. nice Mr. B.

present....


So, I've been wondering, it's kind of hard to figure out why the warmongers think killing 250,000 Iraqi civilians is a positive step for humanity. What's your justification, Purple Heart...

El_Kabong

blackredyellow wrote:

Apparently for Purple Hawk, making shit up does not equal lies...

i guess he's not gonna reply :(

rightondude

nopes...some lightbulbs went off for him.

aNiMaL

El_Kabong wrote:

i guess he's not gonna reply :(

He wanted proof. Not direct quotes from the president on the White Houses official website. What were you thinking? :rolleyes:

Eliot Rosewater

Purple Hawk wrote:

THis is the post you say has merrit?

Without question.

EvilToasterElf

Purple Hawk wrote:

Again to repeat...I didn't ask for a list of claims...I asked for evidence of LIES

man you are too much.

Tell you what. You show me a nuclear weapon, and we'll call it even. Or any WMD? How about some anthrax? Any chemical weapons? The only ones I've seen in Iraq so far is the willy pete we used to vaporize a bunch of civilians.

We were told Iraq posed an immediate threat to our security. Colin Powell took a vial of anthrax to the UN to tell them how dangerous it was. If there was no reason to be afraid of Iraq, Congress would not have given Bush unbelievably magnanimous war powers. There was no threat there, there still isn't a threat there, what there is there is a bunch of incredibly pissed off people, either because we fucked up once we got into Iraq, or because we were even there in the first place.

Collin

El_Kabong wrote:

if you would read them you would see the lies

the first link is from the white house's site w/ the claim about the IAEA report saying iraq is 6 months away from a nuke

the 2nd link is from the nuclear control institute's site w. the IAEA's response saying they never issued a report saying that

the 3rd link is the iaea's site w/ their report on iraq

what exactly are you looking for?

Let's keep this thread going, shall we. I believe Purple Hawk was about to address this.

Collin

miller8966 wrote:

how about blaming the insurgency for being such savages?

What's this, miller? I thought you were all pro death penalty? Remember find a rope and a tree?

PaperPlates

don't gimme no wrote:

This supports a previously mentioned theory (actually that may have been on the Hadji Girl Video thread) that there are only three reasons that someone would join the U.S. military.
1. Poverty
2. Ignorance
3. Stupidity
Now I'm not saying I'm sold on that theory, but I've yet to find a reason that doesn't fall within one of those categories.

These are some other reasons for which im sure many join.

Honor
Tradition
Family Pressure
Patriotism
Desire to Lead and Ability to do so
Travel
Realization that you could use some discipline
Change
Boredom
Interesting
Brotherhood
Sense of belonging
Friends
Wanting to do something "more"
Fighting today so our kids won't have to tommorow



You know, the guys at "the top" giving the orders within the military all served, were all enlisted men, many are very educated both in military and world history. The leaders of tommorow's military are within the "grunts" of today. Not all are idiots. Not all are ignorant. Id bet not all agree with the president either. And not all see things like some of you. Implying or stating otherwise should piss everyone off.

El_Kabong

PaperPlates wrote:

You know, the guys at "the top" giving the orders within the military all served, were all enlisted men, many are very educated both in military and world history. The leaders of tommorow's military are within the "grunts" of today. Not all are idiots. Not all are ignorant. Id bet not all agree with the president either. And not all see things like some of you. Implying or stating otherwise should piss everyone off.

not entirely true...a lot start out as officers, so they are never a grunt.

also, this administration has taken a lot of the decision making power away from the military, they even pretty much stripped JAG lawyers of powers so they are pretty much nothing but lawyers to do as they're told.

El_Kabong

Collin wrote:

Let's keep this thread going, shall we. I believe Purple Hawk was about to address this.

yes, surely something must have happened...i mean he was on last night replying to a few different threads and i even reminded him about this one...then he disappeared shortly after that...i hope nothing bad happened to him!