I do not want to get into specifics of the people who I know who were sitting in the restaurant on top of the hotel (a vantage point that many are now asking for) and watched the plane fly over...or my friend who lives a couple of miles away and saw the plane that morning from his balcony. But these are things that happened. Along with the coach who died, that is the specifics that I will get into. There is another person in this thread who has a sister who saw the plane crash into the Pentagon. I am more apt to believe the friends that saw this than the speculation that I have seen from these theories.
Interesting. You do understand the problems with memory recollection process though right? People can see 100% different things via memory than what actually happened. This is a proven phenomena. I do know the media brainwashed and continues to pound us with this images of stuff daily.
Not pointing any fingers. But that is a somehwat of a factor.
However thanks for your knowledge. I will not dismiss it.
I wouldn't say that it was a dismissal. I would say that he has a point about memory recollection. I did speak to these people very shortly after though (the phone lines were all jammed but I persisted).
Can anyone comment on the repeated requests for military f16 assistance to the FAA about knowing the planes were hijacked and yet nothing was done?
Also the indecision by the FAA to eventually think about it and do nothing? then make excuses like nobody is in the room...There are taped recordings of these actual conversations.
Those guys are sitting around all day itching to go flying I imagine. I know I would be if I had an f16 sitting in my driveway. Like firemen no?
Prior to this no one had ever flown planes into buildings. It wasn't protocol to send militarty jets after highjacked planes. Negotiations were what was supposed to happen because thats what had happened on every highjacking prior to 9/11. That is why the FAA seemed indecisive. They were trying to contact the highjackers to negotiate but ofcourse they couldn't. They didn't want to shoot down planes with hostages on them. Why would they want to do that?
as much as i would like to take credit for that thread it all belongs to rarghrargh-brownstar. i did get a little testy b/c i don't like it when ppl who don't usually start threads here do and the first reply is someone telling her she needs to be on prozac (and then pages of replies, none of which relating to the original post)...but yes, it was a very good find
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
8:20 am: 20 miles from the Pentagon. Flight 77 departs from Dulles Airport.
8:50 am: 260 miles from the Pentagon. Last radio communication with flight 77.
8:55 am: 300 miles from the Pentagon. Flight 77 turns while over southern Ohio.
8:56 am: 299 miles from the Pentagon. Transponder/radar contact lost.
9:33 am: 20 miles from the Pentagon. Unidentified aircraft reported heading to central DC.
9:38 am: 0 miles from the Pentagon. Crashes into the Pentagon.
Any sane plan for hitting the Pentagon would involve hijacking the plane immediately after takeoff, turning it about quickly, and hitting the Pentagon before the US Air Force could react. Any sane plan could not suppose that the USAF had been stood down.
So, it would have been clearly visible to the hundreds of radar stations on the ground, as it flew over terrain populated by more air force bases than any other area on the planet, yet the US Air Force did nothing. They did not even scramble jets to investigate, let alone defend US airspace. They acted exactly as if it did not even exist.
Dulles Airport is only 20 miles from the Pentagon. So it is insane to believe that the "hijackers", who started from Dulles Airport, waited until they were some 300 miles away from their target, the Pentagon, before hijacking the aircraft, turning it around and retracing their path back to the Pentagon. This would give the US Air Force over 40 minutes to get fighter aircraft up to investigate, and if necessary, shoot them down.
Probably, the best plan would be to hijack a plane while it was on the ground at Washington International Airport, take off normally, then crash it into the Pentagon some 2 or 3 miles away.
The aircraft that crashed into the Pentagon could not possibly have been the aircraft reported to have disappeared over southern Ohio. This is simply because, if it had flown from the Ohio/Kentucky border all the way back to Washington DC, then it would have been clearly visible on radar (if an aircrafts transponder is turned off, this means only that the aircraft stops transmitting its name, altitude, and some other details, however, it is still very visible to both military and civilian radar).
Any questions?? (I sure hope so).
Do your research friends. Then come back and call me a crazy conspiracy theorist (if you can)
I'm not even going to get into that rediculous pentagon crash footage, and of which the best video footage is being withheld (i.e. Citgo gas station (especially) and the Sheraton). Those two tapes would clear everything up but the US gov't isn't releasing them for some glorious reason. Why bother to clarify the issue right? :rolleyes:
So who's calling who crazy again? Is all this just being made up out of thin air? and by me, and by several thousands of websites, and media outlets, newspapers, TV, various magazines, etc??? etc??? Really now.
Ask yourself this: how badly do you not want to believe something is definitely wrong with this picture?
I am open to all possibilities. But until I can see logic to the contrary I am befuddled how one can still maintain blind faith to those who support murder as a solution to peaceful means.
nice research!
what should also be noted, but rarely is, is up until a few months before 9/11 NORAD had authority to make the decision on what to do in these situations and had authority to make a shoot down decision. but that was changed and given to the rummy...cheney waited until the pentagon was hit before he claimed he spoke to bush and he gave the shoot down order (altho there is no record in the notes taken by several ppl that he spoke to bush about this and the only ones who remember it are cheney, rummy and rice)
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Prior to this no one had ever flown planes into buildings. It wasn't protocol to send militarty jets after highjacked planes. Negotiations were what was supposed to happen because thats what had happened on every highjacking prior to 9/11. That is why the FAA seemed indecisive. They were trying to contact the highjackers to negotiate but ofcourse they couldn't. They didn't want to shoot down planes with hostages on them. Why would they want to do that?
Granted yes, much innocence was lost that day, however we already had both towers hit and burning at this point and 77 is flying around acting all wierd heading straight for Washington.
Why not send up at least one F16 (or something) to either visually confirm or follow flight 77 to down it if ultimately required?
That's really strange if you ask me. How indifferent can the FAA be at this point? That's the question of the day I guess.
Both WTC buildings are on fire already and flight 77 screaming straight for the heart of Washington unresponsive and way off course?
I would think some action would have been taken. But then again there were numerous planned mock terrorist planes in the air that day to confuse the FAA
That was never told to anyone by the media. Did you hear about that? All the mock terrorist planes in the sky on 9/11 which were purposefully scheduled as training excersises by the Gov't?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
"It is standard operating procedure (SOP) to scramble jet fighters whenever a jetliner goes off course or radio contact with it is lost. Between September 2000 and June 2001, interceptors were scrambled 67 times. In the year 2000 jets were scrambled 129 times"
Hmm...I guess all the pilots were either on vacation or called in sick on 9/11. :rolleyes:
"It is standard operating procedure (SOP) to scramble jet fighters whenever a jetliner goes off course or radio contact with it is lost. Between September 2000 and June 2001, interceptors were scrambled 67 times. In the year 2000 jets were scrambled 129 times"
Hmm...I guess all the pilots were either on vacation or called in sick on 9/11. :rolleyes:
September 9-11, 2001: NORAD Begins Northern Vigilance Military Operation NORAD begins Operation Northern Vigilance. For this military operation, it deploys fighters to Alaska and Northern Canada to monitor a Russian air force exercise in the Russian Arctic and North Pacific Ocean, scheduled for September 10 to September 14. The Russian exercise involves its bombers staging a mock attack against NATO planes that are supposedly planning an assault on Russia. [NORAD, 9/9/2001; Washington Times, 9/11/2001; BBC Worldwide, 2001, pp. 161] The NORAD fighters are due to stay in Alaska and Canada until the end of the Russian exercise. At some time between 10:32 a.m. and 11:45 a.m. on 9/11, Russian President Vladimir Putin will call the White House to say the Russians are voluntarily halting their exercise. [Washington Post, 1/27/2002] It is unknown from which bases NORAD sends fighters for Operation Northern Vigilance, and how many US military personnel are involved. However, in December 2000, it took similar action—called Operation Northern Denial—in response to a “smaller scale” Russian “long-range aviation activity in northern Russia and the Arctic.” More than 350 American and Canadian military personnel were involved on that occasion. [Canadian Chief of Defense Staff, 5/30/2001, pp. 6 ; NORAD, 9/9/2001]
People and organizations involved: Bush administration, North American Aerospace Defense Command, Operation Northern Vigilance, Vladimir Putin
..............
and california
8:30 a.m.: FBI/CIA Anti-Terrorist Task Force Away From Washington on Training Exercise in California USA Today reports that at this time, “a joint FBI/CIA anti-terrorist task force that specifically prepared for this type of disaster” is on a “training exercise in Monterey, Calif.” Consequently, “as of late Tuesday, with airports closed around the country, the task force still [hasn]’t found a way to fly back to Washington.” [USA Today, 9/11/2001] The US politics website evote.com adds that the FBI has deployed “all of its anti-terrorist and top special operations agents at a training exercise (complete with all associated helicopters and light aircraft) in Monterey, California.” So at the time of the attacks, “the chief federal agency responsible for preventing such crimes [is] being AWOL.” [Evote [.com], 9/11/2001]
People and organizations involved: Central Intelligence Agency, Federal Bureau of Investigation
................
and north carolina
8:46 a.m.: Fighters Are Training over North Carolina; Not Recalled to Washington Until Much Later At the time of the first WTC crash, three F-16s assigned to Andrews Air Force Base, ten miles from Washington, are flying an air-to-ground training mission to drop some bombs and hit a refueling tanker, on a range in North Carolina, 207 miles away from their base. However, it is only when they are halfway back to Andrews that lead pilot Major Billy Hutchison is able to talk to the acting supervisor of flying at Andrews, Lt. Col. Phil Thompson, who tells him to return to the base “buster” (as fast as his aircraft will fly). After landing back at Andrews, Hutchison is told to take off immediately, and does so at 10:33 a.m. The other two pilots, Marc Sasseville and Heather Penney, take off from Andrews at 10:42 a.m., after having their planes loaded with 20mm training rounds. These three pilots will therefore not be patrolling the skies above Washington until after about 10:45 a.m. [Aviation Week and Space Technology, 9/9/2002; Filson, 2004, pp. 56] F-16s can travel at a maximum speed of 1,500 mph. [Associated Press, 6/16/2000] Traveling even at 1,100 mph (the speed NORAD Major General Larry Arnold says two fighters from Massachusetts travel toward Flight 175 [MSNBC, 9/23/2001; Slate, 1/16/2002] ), at least one of these F-16s could have returned from North Carolina to Washington within ten minutes and started patrolling the skies well before 9:00 a.m.
People and organizations involved: Billy Hutchison, Marc Sasseville, Phil Thompson, Heather Penney Garcia, NBC
..............
there were a bunch of training exercises going on that day, looks like those 19 hijackers, which the fbi says they have no legal proof did it, lucked out and picked the right day to do this!
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Comments
Interesting. You do understand the problems with memory recollection process though right? People can see 100% different things via memory than what actually happened. This is a proven phenomena. I do know the media brainwashed and continues to pound us with this images of stuff daily.
Not pointing any fingers. But that is a somehwat of a factor.
However thanks for your knowledge. I will not dismiss it.
But you just did.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
I wouldn't say that it was a dismissal. I would say that he has a point about memory recollection. I did speak to these people very shortly after though (the phone lines were all jammed but I persisted).
Prior to this no one had ever flown planes into buildings. It wasn't protocol to send militarty jets after highjacked planes. Negotiations were what was supposed to happen because thats what had happened on every highjacking prior to 9/11. That is why the FAA seemed indecisive. They were trying to contact the highjackers to negotiate but ofcourse they couldn't. They didn't want to shoot down planes with hostages on them. Why would they want to do that?
as much as i would like to take credit for that thread it all belongs to rarghrargh-brownstar. i did get a little testy b/c i don't like it when ppl who don't usually start threads here do and the first reply is someone telling her she needs to be on prozac (and then pages of replies, none of which relating to the original post)...but yes, it was a very good find
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
I may seem that way, but it honestly it sticks in my mind as well as anything I have read thus far on the issue.
you guys are funny...
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
nice research!
what should also be noted, but rarely is, is up until a few months before 9/11 NORAD had authority to make the decision on what to do in these situations and had authority to make a shoot down decision. but that was changed and given to the rummy...cheney waited until the pentagon was hit before he claimed he spoke to bush and he gave the shoot down order (altho there is no record in the notes taken by several ppl that he spoke to bush about this and the only ones who remember it are cheney, rummy and rice)
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Granted yes, much innocence was lost that day, however we already had both towers hit and burning at this point and 77 is flying around acting all wierd heading straight for Washington.
Why not send up at least one F16 (or something) to either visually confirm or follow flight 77 to down it if ultimately required?
That's really strange if you ask me. How indifferent can the FAA be at this point? That's the question of the day I guess.
Both WTC buildings are on fire already and flight 77 screaming straight for the heart of Washington unresponsive and way off course?
I would think some action would have been taken. But then again there were numerous planned mock terrorist planes in the air that day to confuse the FAA
That was never told to anyone by the media. Did you hear about that? All the mock terrorist planes in the sky on 9/11 which were purposefully scheduled as training excersises by the Gov't?
pretty wicked coincidence that is...
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
"It is standard operating procedure (SOP) to scramble jet fighters whenever a jetliner goes off course or radio contact with it is lost. Between September 2000 and June 2001, interceptors were scrambled 67 times. In the year 2000 jets were scrambled 129 times"
Hmm...I guess all the pilots were either on vacation or called in sick on 9/11. :rolleyes:
This whole thing is just screaming at me...
no, they were in alaska
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&before_9/11=militaryExercises
September 9-11, 2001: NORAD Begins Northern Vigilance Military Operation NORAD begins Operation Northern Vigilance. For this military operation, it deploys fighters to Alaska and Northern Canada to monitor a Russian air force exercise in the Russian Arctic and North Pacific Ocean, scheduled for September 10 to September 14. The Russian exercise involves its bombers staging a mock attack against NATO planes that are supposedly planning an assault on Russia. [NORAD, 9/9/2001; Washington Times, 9/11/2001; BBC Worldwide, 2001, pp. 161] The NORAD fighters are due to stay in Alaska and Canada until the end of the Russian exercise. At some time between 10:32 a.m. and 11:45 a.m. on 9/11, Russian President Vladimir Putin will call the White House to say the Russians are voluntarily halting their exercise. [Washington Post, 1/27/2002] It is unknown from which bases NORAD sends fighters for Operation Northern Vigilance, and how many US military personnel are involved. However, in December 2000, it took similar action—called Operation Northern Denial—in response to a “smaller scale” Russian “long-range aviation activity in northern Russia and the Arctic.” More than 350 American and Canadian military personnel were involved on that occasion. [Canadian Chief of Defense Staff, 5/30/2001, pp. 6 ; NORAD, 9/9/2001]
People and organizations involved: Bush administration, North American Aerospace Defense Command, Operation Northern Vigilance, Vladimir Putin
..............
and california
8:30 a.m.: FBI/CIA Anti-Terrorist Task Force Away From Washington on Training Exercise in California USA Today reports that at this time, “a joint FBI/CIA anti-terrorist task force that specifically prepared for this type of disaster” is on a “training exercise in Monterey, Calif.” Consequently, “as of late Tuesday, with airports closed around the country, the task force still [hasn]’t found a way to fly back to Washington.” [USA Today, 9/11/2001] The US politics website evote.com adds that the FBI has deployed “all of its anti-terrorist and top special operations agents at a training exercise (complete with all associated helicopters and light aircraft) in Monterey, California.” So at the time of the attacks, “the chief federal agency responsible for preventing such crimes [is] being AWOL.” [Evote [.com], 9/11/2001]
People and organizations involved: Central Intelligence Agency, Federal Bureau of Investigation
................
and north carolina
8:46 a.m.: Fighters Are Training over North Carolina; Not Recalled to Washington Until Much Later At the time of the first WTC crash, three F-16s assigned to Andrews Air Force Base, ten miles from Washington, are flying an air-to-ground training mission to drop some bombs and hit a refueling tanker, on a range in North Carolina, 207 miles away from their base. However, it is only when they are halfway back to Andrews that lead pilot Major Billy Hutchison is able to talk to the acting supervisor of flying at Andrews, Lt. Col. Phil Thompson, who tells him to return to the base “buster” (as fast as his aircraft will fly). After landing back at Andrews, Hutchison is told to take off immediately, and does so at 10:33 a.m. The other two pilots, Marc Sasseville and Heather Penney, take off from Andrews at 10:42 a.m., after having their planes loaded with 20mm training rounds. These three pilots will therefore not be patrolling the skies above Washington until after about 10:45 a.m. [Aviation Week and Space Technology, 9/9/2002; Filson, 2004, pp. 56] F-16s can travel at a maximum speed of 1,500 mph. [Associated Press, 6/16/2000] Traveling even at 1,100 mph (the speed NORAD Major General Larry Arnold says two fighters from Massachusetts travel toward Flight 175 [MSNBC, 9/23/2001; Slate, 1/16/2002] ), at least one of these F-16s could have returned from North Carolina to Washington within ten minutes and started patrolling the skies well before 9:00 a.m.
People and organizations involved: Billy Hutchison, Marc Sasseville, Phil Thompson, Heather Penney Garcia, NBC
..............
there were a bunch of training exercises going on that day, looks like those 19 hijackers, which the fbi says they have no legal proof did it, lucked out and picked the right day to do this!
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way