Cluster Bombs (still) Dropping Down

Open

Notice the countries that didnt participate. Think the Military Industrial Complex has some pull?


http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hhDYhwGfzK2CvDVxHnadEOKHCzAw

Landmark cluster bomb ban agreed by 111 countries

Landmark cluster bomb ban agreed by 111 countries
4 hours ago

DUBLIN (AFP) — Delegates from 111 nations agreed Wednesday a landmark treaty to ban cluster bombs, Ireland's foreign ministry said, in a deal that lacks the backing of major producers and stockpilers of the lethal weapons.

After 10 days of painstaking negotiations at Croke Park stadium in Dublin, diplomats agreed the wording of a wide-ranging pact to outlaw the use, production, transfer and stockpiling of cluster munitions by its signatories.

It also provides for the welfare of victims and the clearing of areas contaminated by unexploded cluster bombs.

The agreement will be formally adopted on Friday, and signed in Oslo on December 2-3. Signatories would then need to ratify it.

"This is a very strong and ambitious text which nevertheless was able to win consensus among all delegations," said Irish Foreign Minister Micheal Martin. "It is a real contribution to international humanitarian law."

But crucially, the United States, Russia, China, India, Israel and Pakistan -- all major producers and stockpilers of cluster bombs -- were all absent from the Dublin talks, and thus not part of the agreement.

The Irish Department for Foreign Affairs said 111 participating states and 18 observer countries attended.

The process "has been characterised by a true determination on all sides to reach an ambitious and consensual outcome," the ministry said.

The treaty requires the destruction of stockpiled munitions within eight years -- though it leaves the door open for future, more precise generations of cluster munitions that pose less harm to civilians.

Britain was widely cited by campaigners as being at the forefront of a group of states seeking to water down the treaty.

But in a dramatic move Wednesday, Prime Minister Gordon Brown announced in London that Britain would withdraw all its cluster bombs from service in a bid to "break the log jam" in the Dublin talks.

"We have decided we will take all our types of cluster bombs out of service," Brown said.

The draft treaty agreed in Dublin read:

"Each state party undertakes never under any circumstances to:

"(a) Use cluster munitions;

"(b) Develop, produce, otherwise acquire, stockpile, retain or transfer to anyone, directly or indirectly, cluster munitions;

"(c) Assist, encourage or induce anyone to engage in any activity prohibited to a state party under this convention."

Much of the wrangling at Croke Park focused on what signatories could and could not do in joint operations with states still using cluster bombs.

The draft text said signatories "may engage in military cooperation and operations".

But the Cluster Munition Coalition, an umbrella group of non-governmental organisations, hopes that the treaty will stigmatise the use of cluster munitions -- as the similar Ottawa Treaty did for landmines -- and stop countries from helping others to use them.

CMC co-chair Simon Conway told AFP the treaty was a compromise but nonetheless "incredibly strong".

"We're going to end up with a strong treaty that prohibits every cluster bomb that's ever been used, with no transition periods, with strong obligations on clearance and particularly strong obligations on victim assistance," he said.

"The people that have done the most compromising are the bad guys," he added, welcoming Britain's "massive movement".

"They are giving up for all the right reasons, which is that they cause indiscriminate harm and kill civilians."

Hildegarde Vansintjan, advocacy officer for disability campaigners Handicap International, said the convention made states responsible for providing assistance to cluster bomb victims.

The treaty "would be a real step forward for the people suffering from cluster munitions all over the world," she told AFP.

The cluster munitions ban process, started by Norway in February 2007, took the same path as the 1997 Ottawa Treaty by going outside the United Nations to avoid vetoes and seal a swift pact.

Cluster munitions are among the weapons that pose the gravest dangers to civilians, especially in heavily bombed countries like Laos, Vietnam and Afghanistan.

Dropped from planes or fired from artillery, they explode in mid-air, randomly scattering bomblets. Countries are seeking a ban due to the risk of civilians being killed or maimed by their indiscriminate, wide area effect.

They also pose a lasting threat to civilians as many bomblets fail to explode on impact.

Byrnzie

Good to see the U.S and it's client state Israel setting a good example.

catefrances

But crucially, the United States, Russia, China, India, Israel and Pakistan -- all major producers and stockpilers of cluster bombs -- were all absent from the Dublin talks, and thus not part of the agreement


very disappointing but im not surprised in the least. the leader of the free world fucks up again. and this time has some friends with her.

Heineken Helen

Open wrote:

But crucially, the United States, Russia, China, India, Israel and Pakistan -- all major producers and stockpilers of cluster bombs -- were all absent from the Dublin talks, and thus not part of the agreement.

I'm gonna be as nice as I possibly can here...


BASTARDS... fucking BASTARDS :mad:

catefrances

Heineken Helen wrote:

I'm gonna be as nice as I possibly can here...


BASTARDS... fucking BASTARDS :mad:

just throw eggs at 'em helen.

Heineken Helen

catefrances wrote:

just throw eggs at 'em helen.

I would... if they were here in Dublin... but the whole point of my post is that the fuckers (and yes, I'm being as eloquent as I possibly can about this big heap of bullshit) aren't here

Collin

catefrances wrote:

just throw eggs at 'em helen.

Be careful, though. They have cluster bombs.

catefrances

Heineken Helen wrote:

I would... if they were here in Dublin... but the whole point of my post is that the fuckers (and yes, I'm being as eloquent as I possibly can about this big heap of bullshit) aren't here

well you know... those cluster bombs dont make themselves.


i can't think of any possible reason to oppose this banning. their absence is total disrespect for the rest of the world. not to mention those people they drop them on. but then i guess if theyre dropping them there is no respect in the first place. i am so sick to death of the united states(and in this instance, i'll add those other countries missing) and their holy than thou attitude when it comes to arms. is the almighty dollar worth so much that they would willingly allow the death of usually innocent people from such an indiscriminant weapon. hat am i saying? of course weapon makers such as these dont give a shit.

Heineken Helen

catefrances wrote:

well you know... those cluster bombs dont make themselves.


i can't think of any possible reason to oppose this banning. their absence is total disrespect for the rest of the world. not to mention those people they drop them on. but then i guess if theyre dropping them there is no respect in the first place. i am so sick to death of the united states(and in this instance, i'll add those other countries missing) and their holy than thou attitude when it comes to arms. is the almighty dollar worth so much that they would willingly allow the death of usually innocent people from such an indiscriminant weapon. hat am i saying? of course weapon makers such as these dont give a shit.

To avoid the risk of giving certain people reason to completely ignore my post, I'm certainly not going to single out one or even two countries on that list... they're all as fucking bad as eachother... and yep, it IS a total disrespect for the rest of the world. And I agree that there is NO possible reason to oppose this banning... no reason that I, or most people with even a hint of morality, could ever even consider!

Heineken Helen

Collin wrote:

Be careful, though. They have cluster bombs.

I don't know whether to or at that post!

catefrances

Heineken Helen wrote:

To avoid the risk of giving certain people reason to completely ignore my post, I'm certainly not going to single out one or even two countries on that list... they're all as fucking bad as eachother... and yep, it IS a total disrespect for the rest of the world. And I agree that there is NO possible reason to oppose this banning... no reason that I, or most people with even a hint of morality, could ever even consider!

well as you know helen, i couldnt care less if someone ignores my post. truth hurts and for all the good the US does it goes and doess shit like this which makes the world have even less respect for them than usual. who are they kidding besides themselves? but you will notice i did mention the other countries in my diatribe as well, though not by name i'll admit.

Heineken Helen

catefrances wrote:

well as you know helen, i couldnt care less if someone ignores my post. truth hurts and for all the good the US does it goes and doess shit like this which makes the world have even less respect for them than usual. who are they kidding besides themselves? but you will notice i did mention the other countries in my diatribe as well, though not by name i'll admit.

Thing is... if somebody is inclined to dismiss a post simply because it's 'anti-American' :rolleyes: they can't dismiss it so easily if you treat all of these countries equally in your disdain. Some posters here, much as their posts are informative and definitely worth a read, sadly make it much too easy for those they are trying to talk sense into to dismiss them. I'm trying not to be one of those anymore. There's plenty going on in the world other than American foreign politics that's worthy of my hate.

Heineken Helen

I find it interesting that a thread like this gets such little interest... if you'd stuck US/America/Israel/Hillary/Obama in the title, everyone would read it... and then go 'oh... it's only about cluster bombs' :rolleyes:

polaris

Heineken Helen wrote:

I find it interesting that a thread like this gets such little interest... if you'd stuck US/America/Israel/Hillary/Obama in the title, everyone would read it... and then go 'oh... it's only about cluster bombs' :rolleyes:

this isn't really a topic that generates a huge discussion because you need opposing views ...

no one is gonna say cluster bombs are good ... and so, you have to go with the anti-israel, anti-usa rant in which case there are plenty of options to discuss that angle ...