Halloween just a money making scheme?

Brisk.

yo everyone

I really dont dig Halloween. I just dont see the point of it??? Anyone know why it started?

I only see the oppurtunity to make money for stores.

what do you people think

mammasan

Halloween originated as the Celtic celebration of Samhain. The early Celts broke their year into two seasons. Samhain is the end head of the spring season when all the crops must be harvested and Beltane was the end of the winter season when spring started and life was renewed. Samhain was also a time when the veil between the world of the living and the world of the dead was at it's most transparent. here is a link that better explains it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samhain

As far as Hallowenn here in the states, it didn't really start taking hold till the mid 1900 with the influx of Irish immigrants.

Here is another link that may help.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween

FinsburyParkCarrots

It's certainly nowhere near as much of a deal over here, as it is in the States. The one good thing about Walmart/Asda (note the compound, like HIV/AIDS or Sinn Fein/IRA), around this time of year, is that the fuckwit managers over in the States order that all the British stores be jammed with so many pumpkins that no-one can get through the doors.

stuckinline

i like halloween, i don't like how the stores have over-commercialized it

mammasan

FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:

It's certainly nowhere near as much of a deal over here, as it is in the States. The one good thing about Walmart/Asda (note the compound, like HIV/AIDS or Sinn Fein/IRA), around this time of year, is that the fuckwit managers over in the States order that all the British stores be jammed with so many pumpkins that no-one can get through the doors.

How about in Ireland? Is it still a big celebration there?

FinsburyParkCarrots

mammasan wrote:

How about in Ireland? Is it still a big celebration there?

Never was, as far as I could see, really. I remember my cousin Grainne putting on a witch's outfit to go trick or treating, but that's it, really. Ireland's always been a place for local legends and ghost stories, but an imagined Celtic-pagan past was the preserve of the Protestant Anglo-Irish ascendancy, imagining a "romantic peasant tradition". You got the likes of Lady Gregory writing about aristocratic legends too, especially Cuchulain, and imagining her landed classes as some kind of theosophical or spiritual successor to all that stuff. To the plain speaking people, small farmers who hated being patronised, a little banter about the faeries and the old headless coachman up the top of the Carrick road was alright for the craic, but few people really fell for it. Maybe the earlier generations did, the ones who went over to America during the famine, but by Yeats's time, anyone who was over superstitious was generally taken either for a rich Protestant with too much time on his hands, or an eejit.

Edit: http://www.visitdublin.com/ I see it's good for bringing in the Yanks as tourists, too.

mammasan

FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:

Never was, as far as I could see, really. I remember my cousin Grainne putting on a witch's outfit to go trick or treating, but that's it, really. Ireland's always been a place for local legends and ghost stories, but an imagined Celtic-pagan past was the preserve of the Protestant Anglo-Irish ascendancy, imagining a "romantic peasant tradition". You got the likes of Lady Gregory writing about Cuchulain and imagining her landed classes as some kind of theosophical or spiritual successor to all that stuff. To the plain speaking people, small farmers who hated being patronised, a little banter about the faeries and the old headless coachman up the top of the Carrick road was alright for the craic, but few people really fell for it. Maybe the earlier generations did, the ones who went over to America during the famine, but by Yeats's time, anyone who was over superstitious was generally taken either for a rich Protestant with too much time on his hands, or an eejit.

Wow, I was always under the impression that Halloween was a big deal in Ireland. Thank you for the clarification.

Skitch Patterson

must everything be a scheme or an opportunity to commercialize?

Maybe, just maybe, halloween is supposed to be a fun day that everyone can enjoy the sillyness of it all... and stores sell things to make it more fun for everyone involved?

FinsburyParkCarrots

mammasan wrote:

Wow, I was always under the impression that Halloween was a big deal in Ireland. Thank you for the clarification.

Well, it makes money, and there's lots of apple bobbing in the pubs. It's a great excuse for a few pints, and a bit of fun. And there's a bank holiday, around that time: mainly for All Souls' Day, a Catholic "Holy Day", and partly because they need one break between August Bank Holiday (the first week in August in Ireland, as opposed to the last week, in the UK), and Christmas. But as for being central to some underlying Celtic belief system, maybe that's the case in Enya O' Grady's Magical Crystal Shop, Ballybollix, but it isn't to your average Tom:

Your average Tom

mammasan

FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:

Well, it makes money, and there's lots of apple bobbing in the pubs. It's a great excuse for a few pints, and a bit of fun. And there's a bank holiday, around that time: mainly for All Souls' Day, a Catholic "Holy Day", and partly because they need one break between August Bank Holiday (the first week in August in Ireland, as opposed to the last week, in the UK), and Christmas. But as for being central to some underlying Celtic belief system, maybe that's the case in Enya O' Grady's Magical Crystal Shop, Ballybollix, but it isn't to your average Tom:

Your average Tom

Well I never thought it was due to an underlying Celtic belief system just more or less that the holiday originated in Ireland. Then again you really don't need a holiday to have an excuse to enjoy a couple of pints and some fun.

cincybearcat

Do you really have a problem with people having a good time...especially kids?

Money making or not...it's fun for a lot of people. Regardless of it's origin or anything else..it's about dressing up in a costume, having fun, and getting some candy if your a kid.

miller8966

lol of course people want to make money..duh! That doesnt take away from the fun time.

jlew24asu

cincybearcat wrote:

Do you really have a problem with people having a good time...especially kids?

Money making or not...it's fun for a lot of people. Regardless of it's origin or anything else..it's about dressing up in a costume, having fun, and getting some candy if your a kid.

this is what I dont understand. its all about the kids being able to dress up and have some fun getting free candy. what kid doesnt like that.

but the person making this thread somehow just thinks its a money making scheme? lighten up dude

seagoat2

I think it's fun to dress up in a costume & be someone else for a night....esp. if everyone else joins in, for a party or whatever.

When we were kids, we liked the candy of coarse, but making your own costume was/is fun too.

There's not many opportunities where you can scare yourself (& others) & have fun doing it......I think it's just harmless fun.

There is a lot of unnecessary plastic crap in the stores too, which is an aspect we could do without, but Xmas is the same way....consume/consume/consume.

You just have to be creative & keep the unnecessary stuff to a minimum....

sonicreducer

halloween sucks once it crosses your mind that you are too old to trick or treat. after that, it is never the same. i do like the abundance of mini snickers bars though.

mammasan

sonicreducer wrote:

halloween sucks once it crosses your mind that you are too old to trick or treat. after that, it is never the same. i do like the abundance of mini snickers bars though.

I don't trick or treat, though I do take my kids out, but I still love Halloween. My favorite holiday of the year.

John Budge

I enjoy watching the goofy Friday, the 13th movies on television.

moeaholic

I BrisK I wrote:

yo everyone

I really dont dig Halloween. I just dont see the point of it??? Anyone know why it started?

I only see the oppurtunity to make money for stores.

what do you people think

the only celebrated day i think you could have an honest gripe about would be valentine's day. what a crock of shit day that is. but halloween? come on, man. it's for the kids. personally, i like halloween. i just don't like kids throwing eggs at my car, that's all.

rigneyclan

FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:

Never was, as far as I could see, really

Actually, it is.

Taken from the Wikipedia Halloween link provided on the first page of this thread:


"Halloween is most popular in Ireland, where it is said to have originated, also known in Irish Gaelic as "Oíche Shamhna" or "Samhain Night". The Celts celebrated Halloween as Samhain (pronounced /ˈsˠaunʲ/), "End of Summer", a pastoral and agricultural fire festival or feast, when the dead revisited the mortal world, and large communal bonfires would be lit to ward off evil spirits. (See Origin: Celtic observation of Samhain below.) In Ireland they continued to practice their deep-rooted, ancient pagan rites well after the arrival of Christianity in the middle of the sixth century. Pope Gregory IV standardized the date of All Saints' Day, or All Hallows' Day, on November 1 to the entire Western Church in 835. There is no primary documentation that Gregory was aware of or reacting to Samhain among the Celts in the selection of this date. Because Samhain had traditionally fallen the night before All Hallows', it eventually became known as All Hallows' Even' or Hallowe'en. While Celts were happy to move their All Saints' Day from its earlier date of the 20th of April, ("...the Felire of Oengus and the Martyrology of Tallaght prove that the early medieval churches celebrated the feast of All Saints upon 20 April.")[2] they were unwilling to give up their existing festival of the dead and continued to celebrate Samhain.

Unfortunately, there is frustratingly little primary documentation of how Halloween was celebrated in preindustrial Ireland. Historian Nicholas Rogers has written,

It is not always easy to track the development of Halloween in Ireland and Scotland from the mid-seventeenth century, largely because one has to trace ritual practices from [modern] folkloric evidence that do not necessarily reflect how the holiday might have changed; these rituals may not be "authentic" or "timeless" examples of preindustrial times.[3]

On Halloween night in present-day Ireland, adults and children dress up as creatures from the underworld (ghosts, ghouls, zombies, witches, goblins), light bonfires, and enjoy spectacular fireworks displays (despite the fact that such displays are usually illegal). The children walk around knocking on the doors of neighbours, in order to gather fruit, nuts, and sweets for the Halloween festival. Salt was once sprinkled in the hair of the children to protect against evil spirits.

The houses are decorated by carving pumpkins or turnips into scary faces and other decorations. Lights are then placed in side the carved head to help light and decorate. The traditional Halloween cake in Ireland is the barmbrack which is a fruit bread. Each member of the family gets a slice. Great interest is taken in the outcome as there is a piece of rag, a coin and a ring in each cake. If you get the rag then your financial future is doubtful. If you get the coin then you can look forward to a prosperous year. Getting the ring is a sure sign of impending romance or continued happiness. Usually these days only the ring is included in bought barn bracs.

Games are played like 'ducking/bobbing for apples' where apples, monkey nuts (peanuts) and other nuts and fruit and some small coins are put into a basin of water. The apples and monkey nuts float. Coins are harder to catch as they sink. You catch what you can using only your mouth and no hands. Everyone takes turns. In some households the coins are pushed into the fruit for the children to "earn" as they catch each apple. The Scottish and English have taken this tradition into their customs. It's named ducking, after the fast movement of a persno's head under the water to try to get something without having the head under the water for too long. Another game involves trying to eat an apple on a string without using your hands.

Children also have a week-long break from school for Halloween, and the last Monday in October is a public holiday given for Halloween even though they quite often don't fall on the same day. See Public holidays in the Republic of Ireland.

As of 2006, several County and City Councils around Ireland have imposed bans on bonfires, citing apparent health and safety issues."

aoife

FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:

Never was, as far as I could see, really. I remember my cousin Grainne putting on a witch's outfit to go trick or treating, but that's it, really. Ireland's always been a place for local legends and ghost stories, but an imagined Celtic-pagan past was the preserve of the Protestant Anglo-Irish ascendancy, imagining a "romantic peasant tradition". You got the likes of Lady Gregory writing about aristocratic legends too, especially Cuchulain, and imagining her landed classes as some kind of theosophical or spiritual successor to all that stuff. To the plain speaking people, small farmers who hated being patronised, a little banter about the faeries and the old headless coachman up the top of the Carrick road was alright for the craic, but few people really fell for it. Maybe the earlier generations did, the ones who went over to America during the famine, but by Yeats's time, anyone who was over superstitious was generally taken either for a rich Protestant with too much time on his hands, or an eejit.

Edit: http://www.visitdublin.com/ I see it's good for bringing in the Yanks as tourists, too.

every child goes trick or treating over here at halloween what do you mean?
also people do bad things like start fires and always animals get hurt

FinsburyParkCarrots

That wikipedia link spouts a pile of misty eyed shite, if you ask me. Sure, kids go trick or treating, they do everywhere. I've been in Ireland for many Hallowe'ens, and never seen it taken too seriously.

Now, who wants Irish lessons?

http://www.leyline.org/cra/languages/IrishPeople/

Oh, that's for the other thread on this topic. Never mind.

mammasan

FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:

That wikipedia link spouts a pile of misty eyed shite, if you ask me. Sure, kids go trick or treating, they do everywhere. I've been in Ireland for many Hallowe'ens, and never seen it taken too seriously.

Now, who wants Irish lessons?

http://www.leyline.org/cra/languages/IrishPeople/

Oh, that's for the other thread on this topic. Never mind.

Thanks for the link.

p.s. Did you get my PM?

Uncle Leo

Halloween is how we had our first caramel cod.