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Middle Eastern Conflicts are not about land

NCfanNCfan Posts: 945
edited September 2006 in A Moving Train
"Some cling to the notion that Islamic rage is not the manifestation of an elemental hatred, but is merely about land. That’s about what bin Laden said in 1998 when he urged all Muslims to murder all the Americans: “to kill the Americans and their allies — civilians and military — is an obligation incumbent upon every Muslim who can do it and in any country — this until the Asqa Mosque (Jerusalem) and the Holy Mosque (Mecca) are liberated from their grip.”

But the long overdue withdrawal of soldiers from Saudi Arabia (who were out in a godforsaken desert and nowhere near the “Holy Mosque”) had no more effect on al Qaeda than did the Israeli departure from Gaza and Lebanon on Hamas and Hezbollah. As in the case of Hitler’s serial demands for return of the “stolen” German Sudetenland and then Czechoslovakia, land was never the real issue. Perceived loss of pride and status, hatred of the Jews, and unbridled contempt for a liberal West were."
Post edited by Unknown User on

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    NMyTreeNMyTree Posts: 2,412
    NCfan wrote:
    "Some cling to the notion that Islamic rage is not the manifestation of an elemental hatred, but is merely about land. That’s about what bin Laden said in 1998 when he urged all Muslims to murder all the Americans: “to kill the Americans and their allies — civilians and military — is an obligation incumbent upon every Muslim who can do it and in any country — this until the Asqa Mosque (Jerusalem) and the Holy Mosque (Mecca) are liberated from their grip.”

    But the long overdue withdrawal of soldiers from Saudi Arabia (who were out in a godforsaken desert and nowhere near the “Holy Mosque”) had no more effect on al Qaeda than did the Israeli departure from Gaza and Lebanon on Hamas and Hezbollah. As in the case of Hitler’s serial demands for return of the “stolen” German Sudetenland and then Czechoslovakia, land was never the real issue. Perceived loss of pride and status, hatred of the Jews, and unbridled contempt for a liberal West were."

    Bin Laden was preparing himself for years and years for this. His motivation was his belief in that radical ......extremist variation of Islam, which wants to rule the world and kill all non-believers.

    Everything else that comes out of his mouth are lies, propaganda (manipulation) and hate-filled venom.

    Sadly, he's been able to hook-in many overly-PC, overly-liberal, apologist westerners; who can't see the forest from the trees. They try to validate this sick bastard and give his plight legitimacy. Unbelievable.
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    even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    NMyTree wrote:
    Bin Laden was preparing himself for years and years for this. His motivation was his belief in that radical ......extremist variation of Islam, which wants to rule the world and kill all non-believers.

    Everything else that comes out of his mouth are lies, propaganda (manipulation) and hate-filled venom.

    Sadly, he's been able to hook-in many overly-PC, overly-liberal, apologist westerners; who can't see the forest from the trees. They try to validate this sick bastard and give his plight legitimacy. Unbelievable.


    I was with him when he was waging war on the Soviets. So I am kind of slow to jump off his boat. How about you. Did it take you long?
    You've changed your place in this world!
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    NMyTreeNMyTree Posts: 2,412
    even flow? wrote:
    I was with him when he was waging war on the Soviets. So I am kind of slow to jump off his boat. How about you. Did it take you long?

    Actually, no. I was never a supporter of any war, nor have I ever pumped my fist, pumped out my chest and cheered on a war. Certianly, the US supporting, teaching and supplying those nudnicks, was not something I areed with or supported.

    BTW, is that a nice boat? 18 footer? Or is that a Yact with 72 virgins sipping Martinis?:D:D
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    AbuskedtiAbuskedti Posts: 1,917
    NMyTree wrote:
    Bin Laden was preparing himself for years and years for this. His motivation was his belief in that radical ......extremist variation of Islam, which wants to rule the world and kill all non-believers.

    Everything else that comes out of his mouth are lies, propaganda (manipulation) and hate-filled venom.

    Sadly, he's been able to hook-in many overly-PC, overly-liberal, apologist westerners; who can't see the forest from the trees. They try to validate this sick bastard and give his plight legitimacy. Unbelievable.

    :) There is indeed a plight in the Middle East. The overly Right seem to be content to quote Osama Bin Laden as though he speaks for the region. He is a hood that gets much of his legitimacy from our bumbling response to him.
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    even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    NMyTree wrote:
    Actually, no. I was never a supporter of any war, nor have I ever pumped my fist, pumped out my chest and cheered on a war. Certianly, the US supporting, teaching and supplying those nudnicks, was not something I areed with or supported.

    BTW, is that a nice boat? 18 footer? Or is that a Yact with 72 virgins sipping Martinis?:D:D


    Close! It was the yacht with the 72 virgins but, it was KY. :)
    You've changed your place in this world!
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    lalalalaaaaaaaalalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    NCfan wrote:
    "Some cling to the notion that Islamic rage is not the manifestation of an elemental hatred, but is merely about land. That’s about what bin Laden said in 1998 when he urged all Muslims to murder all the Americans: “to kill the Americans and their allies — civilians and military — is an obligation incumbent upon every Muslim who can do it and in any country — this until the Asqa Mosque (Jerusalem) and the Holy Mosque (Mecca) are liberated from their grip.”

    But the long overdue withdrawal of soldiers from Saudi Arabia (who were out in a godforsaken desert and nowhere near the “Holy Mosque”) had no more effect on al Qaeda than did the Israeli departure from Gaza and Lebanon on Hamas and Hezbollah. As in the case of Hitler’s serial demands for return of the “stolen” German Sudetenland and then Czechoslovakia, land was never the real issue. Perceived loss of pride and status, hatred of the Jews, and unbridled contempt for a liberal West were."

    Yes, Israel withdrew from both southern Lebanon and Gaza....after pretty much demolishing them. You can't expect people to not still be pissed off.

    Even more importantly, the author conveniently forgets to mention the main piece of land in question here which is of course the West Bank, not Gaza or Lebanon.
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    NMyTreeNMyTree Posts: 2,412
    Abuskedti wrote:
    The overly Right seem to be content to quote Osama Bin Laden as though he speaks for the region. He is a hood that gets much of his legitimacy from our bumbling response to him.

    I agree with that, completely.

    The overly-right have also bumbled and blundered in exposing Muslim extremists and the real danger and motivation of their actions.

    Luckily, the Muslim extremists have been quite cooperative and helpful in exposing themselves for vicious, self-righteous, racist, egomaniacs......they really are.
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    farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    Abuskedti wrote:
    There is indeed a plight in the Middle East. The overly Right seem to be content to quote Osama Bin Laden as though he speaks for the region. He is a hood that gets much of his legitimacy from our bumbling response to him.

    Very good post.
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    farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    NMyTree wrote:
    Luckily, the Muslim extremists have been quite cooperative and helpful in exposing themselves for vicious, self-righteous, racist, egomaniacs......they really are.

    Also good..
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    NMyTreeNMyTree Posts: 2,412
    even flow? wrote:
    Close! It was the yacht with the 72 virgins but, it was KY. :)

    Kentucky? Or K-Y Lubricant?


    Oh wait. Is there even a difference?
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    AbuskedtiAbuskedti Posts: 1,917
    NMyTree wrote:
    I agree with that, completely.

    The overly-right have also bumbled and blundered in exposing Muslim extremists and the real danger and motivation of their actions.

    Luckily, the Muslim extremists have been quite cooperative and helpful in exposing themselves for vicious, self-righteous, racist, egomaniacs......they really are.

    maybe, but no more than us
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    NMyTreeNMyTree Posts: 2,412
    ...and us no more than them.
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    AbuskedtiAbuskedti Posts: 1,917
    NMyTree wrote:
    ...and us no more than them.

    agreed.
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    beachdwellerbeachdweller Posts: 1,532
    I hope it's not because they want control of Jerusalem, cause I think the Israeli government will nuke in place rather than ever give up control again.

    the future sure looks fucked right now
    "Music, for me, was fucking heroin." eV (nothing Ed has said is more true for me personally than this quote)

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    OutOfBreathOutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    I guess it's about power too. The root of it anyway.

    Peace
    Dan
    "YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death

    "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
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    MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,673
    NMyTree wrote:
    Bin Laden was preparing himself for years and years for this. His motivation was his belief in that radical ......extremist variation of Islam, which wants to rule the world and kill all non-believers.

    Everything else that comes out of his mouth are lies, propaganda (manipulation) and hate-filled venom.

    Sadly, he's been able to hook-in many overly-PC, overly-liberal, apologist westerners; who can't see the forest from the trees. They try to validate this sick bastard and give his plight legitimacy. Unbelievable.

    Maybe that's true with him now, I mean it was'nt true whe he was on the CIA payroll was it? he also did'nt like american bases in arabia, if you read his interviews and quotes you should be able to see that he made it clear that his war was against the US government and not it's people until a few years later he came to the conclusion that his war has to involve american "civilians" because they are the ones who elect the governments.
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    AbuskedtiAbuskedti Posts: 1,917
    MrBrian wrote:
    Maybe that's true with him now, I mean it was'nt true whe he was on the CIA payroll was it? he also did'nt like american bases in arabia, if you read his interviews and quotes you should be able to see that he made it clear that his war was against the US government and not it's people until a few years later he came to the conclusion that his war has to involve american "civilians" because they are the ones who elect the governments.

    Because when its people are scared, they support war. War weakens America - its a drain on our resources and a drain on our sence of right and wrong. Osama pushed us into this spiral and we are spining out of control. He is successfully keeping us in our dive from a cave because our leadership is no wiser than a gang of elementary school bullies.
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    MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,673
    Abuskedti wrote:
    Because when its people are scared, they support war. War weakens America - its a drain on our resources and a drain on our sence of right and wrong. Osama pushed us into this spiral and we are spining out of control. He is successfully keeping us in our dive from a cave because our leadership is no wiser than a gang of elementary school bullies.

    yeah, but remember before the war in iraq and the war on terror, before those were mainstream words in america, it's people voted for bush in 2000, clinton before that and another bush before him, so one can understand why people may have anger towards the avg american.

    Also lets not forget, regan,nixon and such. Not exactly great guy's. all elected by americans.
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