Our Tax System Explained

24

Comments

  • Kann
    Kann Posts: 1,146
    I don't change names. I don't think tax = theft.
    Murder does exist in a society, and if I were a firm opposant to prison I could easily argue imprisonment, today, is murder. But I don't think so either.
    If you want nothing to do with the flaws of a multi-million member society, you always have the choice to leave it.
    But since all of this is just a matter of words I'll leave it here. I just want to know : do you think that taxes are a democratic choice your countrymen willingly chose? Are there not, in your country, candidates who propose to get rid of taxes but aren't followed by enough people?
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Kann wrote:
    I don't change names. I don't think tax = theft.

    I know you don't.
    Murder does exist in a society, and if I were a firm opposant to prison I could easily argue imprisonment, today, is murder. But I don't think so either.
    If you want nothing to do with the flaws of a multi-million member society, you always have the choice to leave it.

    Imprisonment is not murder. War and capital punishment, however, are.
    But since all of this is just a matter of words I'll leave it here. I just want to know : do you think that taxes are a democratic choice your countrymen willingly chose?

    Taxes are a democratic choice the majority of my countrymen willingly choose, yes.
    Are there not, in your country, candidates who propose to get rid of taxes but aren't followed by enough people?

    Of course. Few people in this country want to eliminate taxes.
  • sponger
    sponger Posts: 3,159
    I bet you guys didn't know that a person can actually get a graduate degree in taxation. Point in fact is that some schools actually offer a post-graduate degree in it. Yes, it's true. It's not exactly a subject that can be explained with a simple analogy.
    reigning champion

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    sponger wrote:
    I bet you guys didn't know that a person can actually get a graduate degree in taxation. Point in fact is that some schools actually offer a post-graduate degree in it. Yes, it's true. It's not exactly a subject that can be explained with a simple analogy.

    http://www.cato.org/images/image002.gif
  • Kann
    Kann Posts: 1,146
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Taxes are a democratic choice the majority of my countrymen willingly choose, yes.

    But I often read you compare taxes to extorsion. Why give a negative spin on democratic decisions? The principle is after all to suit the majority while hearing out the fringe.
    I always like reading all you write, but I still don't know why since I generally understand hardly more than half of it!
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    farfromglorified wrote:
    http://www.cato.org/images/image002.gif

    holy fucking shit. i knew it was bad, but man...

    even the 400 pages in 1913 seems ridiculously excessive!
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Kann wrote:
    But I often read you compare taxes to extorsion.

    It is. Do you think lynch mobs weren't murderers, just because a majority decided someone should die?

    I'm telling you right now: every penny you get from me, you get because you threaten me with violence. What my "countrymen" think or do not think is irrelevant.
    Why give a negative spin on democratic decisions?

    Hehe....slavery was a "democratic decision". Would you not put a "negative spin" on that? The Iraq War was a "democratic decision". Is that cool with you?
    The principle is after all to suit the majority while hearing out the fringe.

    If that's the best principle you've got, don't be shocked when your principles get voted away.
    I always like reading all you write, but I still don't know why since I generally understand hardly more than half of it!

    I'm sorry I haven't been able to explain it better. I'm working on that.
  • Kann
    Kann Posts: 1,146
    farfromglorified wrote:
    It is. Do you think lynch mobs weren't murderers, just because a majority decided someone should die?
    I'm telling you right now: every penny you get from me, you get because you threaten me with violence. What my "countrymen" think or do not think is irrelevant.
    Hehe....slavery was a "democratic decision". Would you not put a "negative spin" on that? The Iraq War was a "democratic decision". Is that cool with you?
    If that's the best principle you've got, don't be shocked when your principles get voted away.

    I have no idea how to reply to that. So I'll just say I'm sorry you feel extorted, I don't mind paying my taxes.
    And I don't get any penny from you (well I think)!
  • RainDog
    RainDog Posts: 1,824
    farfromglorified wrote:
    If that's the best principle you've got, don't be shocked when your principles get voted away.
    I'm still not sure what system you'd replace our democratic-republic with.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    RainDog wrote:
    I'm still not sure what system you'd replace our democratic-republic with.

    I wouldn't replace it. I'd simply ensure that it is preceded by rights to life, liberty and property. I guess that makes me old-fashioned.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Kann wrote:
    So I'll just say I'm sorry you feel extorted, I don't mind paying my taxes.

    And that's why I'd never suggest that you have no right to pay your taxes.
    And I don't get any penny from you (well I think)!

    Yes, I meant that more in the general sense. Sorry.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    farfromglorified wrote:
    I wouldn't replace it. I'd simply ensure that it is preceded by rights to life, liberty and property. I guess that makes me old-fashioned.

    you've got life and liberty. but the property is neither in the declaration nor the constitution. so sadly, you've picked the wrong country to live in, based on your ideals.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    farfromglorified wrote:
    It is. Do you think lynch mobs weren't murderers, just because a majority decided someone should die?

    I'm telling you right now: every penny you get from me, you get because you threaten me with violence. What my "countrymen" think or do not think is irrelevant.



    That penny is regulated. Just because you earned it, and you think it's yours, the fact is, is that it's true worth is dictated by those who control the money. That would be the bankers and the lawmakers and whomever they're in cahoots with.

    Those are usually customers 9 and 10 in the Bar. They can get away with so much for a time, but when customers 1-7 start getting the idea that something isn't quite right, some sort of compromise must come to the fore.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    soulsinging wrote:
    you've got life and liberty.

    Up until they are contradicted by law and murder, yes.
    but the property is neither in the declaration nor the constitution. so sadly, you've picked the wrong country to live in, based on your ideals.

    Yep.
  • Kann
    Kann Posts: 1,146
    farfromglorified wrote:
    And that's why I'd never suggest that you have no right to pay your taxes.

    That I understand. So are the people willing to pay the taxes the only ones allowed to benefit from government services (uhc, police force, public school...)?
    edit : in a system where only people willing to pay actually pay. Whereas, if you don't pay the taxes you actually pay a dr when you need one, school when you need one, police when you need one?
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    gue_barium wrote:
    That penny is regulated. Just because you earned it, and you think it's yours, the fact is, is that it's true worth is dictated by those who control the money. That would be the bankers and the lawmakers and whomever they're in cahoots with.

    Those are usually customers 9 and 10 in the Bar. They can get away with so much for a time, but when customers 1-7 start getting the idea that something isn't quite right, some sort of compromise must come to the fore.

    Then don't use their money.

    And please don't use the word "compromise" when you mean violence. Violence precludes compromise.
  • pjfanatic4
    pjfanatic4 Posts: 127
    There is no such thing in the US. Unless you always do what the majority wants in your family. That doesn't happen in mine. Doesn't happen where I work or have worked. Doesn't happen when you vote for a President or any other national issue.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Kann wrote:
    That I understand. So are the people willing to pay the taxes the only ones allowed to benefit from government services (uhc, police force, public school...)?

    edit : in a system where only people willing to pay actually pay. Whereas, if you don't pay the taxes you actually pay a dr when you need one, school when you need one, police when you need one?

    That's a possibility, yes.
  • RainDog
    RainDog Posts: 1,824
    farfromglorified wrote:
    I wouldn't replace it. I'd simply ensure that it is preceded by rights to life, liberty and property. I guess that makes me old-fashioned.
    So you want a government, but you don't want it to be able to do anything - except maybe something to draw portraits from for our paper currency.
  • RainDog
    RainDog Posts: 1,824
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Then don't use their money.

    And please don't use the word "compromise" when you mean violence. Violence precludes compromise.
    When two parties agree to a compromise, and one doesn't fulfil it's end, is the other simply supposed to say "well golly gee willikers"?

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