Is homosexuality a disease?

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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    I know you guys don't care for my opinion, however, if you take lab mice and throw them into a confined space, some of them will become homosexual, or act homosexually. In today's society we are all about population density, we have 100's of unit apartment buildings and highly dense residential areas. That correlates with the behavior in animals. Though, I don't believe that is the only deterimnent.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    NCfan wrote:
    It's the principle... but you raised a neat hypothesis there at the end. That's interesting!

    that's why im not exactly worried about homosexuals. it's not like we're going extinct any time soon. we've got a few billion people to spare.
  • NCfan
    NCfan Posts: 945
    Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:
    Oh, yea, I see what youre saying. What about infertile men and women though? Would you consider that a disease also? Or just a fluke?

    It could be either or both I guess. But again, this wouldn't be normal. I point that out becuase many make the argument that homosexuality is normal. And I agree that it is normal, but in the same way it's normal for people to be born with downs, etc.... It's not supposed to happen but does.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    NCfan wrote:
    It could be either or both I guess. But again, this wouldn't be normal. I point that out becuase many make the argument that homosexuality is normal. And I agree that it is normal, but in the same way it's normal for people to be born with downs, etc.... It's not supposed to happen but does.

    "Look I know the supernatural is something that isn't supposed to happen, but it does happen." ~ White Zombie
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • NCfan
    NCfan Posts: 945
    soulsinging wrote:
    that's why im not exactly worried about homosexuals. it's not like we're going extinct any time soon. we've got a few billion people to spare.

    Well this is where I stand. It doesn't bother me so much for gays to adopt children. That is a noble thing to do. But for lesbians to conceive, I just think that is immoral towards the child.

    I'm not saying the govermnet should do a damn thing about it. People have the right to practice what ever kind of morals they want to. If I saw a lesbian couple like that I wouldn't say a word to them. I would keep on going about my business.

    I'm just saying that from my perspective, I find it immoral - thas all!
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I know you guys don't care for my opinion, however, if you take lab mice and throw them into a confined space, some of them will become homosexual, or act homosexually. In today's society we are all about population density, we have 100's of unit apartment buildings and highly dense residential areas. That correlates with the behavior in animals. Though, I don't believe that is the only deterimnent.

    i welcome your opinion as it gives me a different perspective. some time back here; someone told a story about a friend that went to jail; became homosexual; then went back to his wife when he got out. (i left out a lot of details).
    the need to breed is built into all of us. every animal has it. humans also have the desire for pleasure. i don't know if "any port in a storm" would apply but looking at the world; it seems to.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    NCfan wrote:
    Well this is where I stand. It doesn't bother me so much for gays to adopt children. That is a noble thing to do. But for lesbians to conceive, I just think that is immoral towards the child.

    I'm not saying the govermnet should do a damn thing about it. People have the right to practice what ever kind of morals they want to. If I saw a lesbian couple like that I wouldn't say a word to them. I would keep on going about my business.

    I'm just saying that from my perspective, I find it immoral - thas all!

    well i have to say im not all that comfortable with a lot of artificial conception practices in general, mainly becos there are so many children needing to be adopted out there to begin with. at the same time, i understand why people want it and i cant say definitively i wouldnt want it either if i was in their shoes.

    nonetheless, i dont know about homosexuals not being supposed to happen. i dont think of them or downs syndrome as abnormal, simply different. it's part of genetic variation, not everyone conforms to standard. by that thinking, any genetic trait that less than half the population has is abnormal. diabetics, people with ms, disposition to cancer, etc. but we dont use it as a means to tell them they are different from the rest of us normal humans. we simply identify and do what we can to ensure that it does not interfere with them having a satisfying life. give them treatment, social support services, etc. since homosexuals do not need any of this, the only thing standing in the way of them living a "normal" life is prejudice that prevents them from doing what the rest of us do.

    it is certainly not a reason to forbid homosexuals to get fertility measures others can. would you prevent someone with downs syndrome from breeding on those grounds? or somebody with diabetes? these are all genetic diseases that could be passed on, but we dont prevent people from reproducing becos of them. basically, im saying it's got to be all or none. you cant allow fertility treatments to some people and deny it to others. cos then infertile people will pass on that infetility gene to their offspring and it would have the same effect as allowing homosexuals to use such treatments. you get the same problematic result. so why would one be ok and the other not?
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    soulsinging wrote:
    that's why im not exactly worried about homosexuals. it's not like we're going extinct any time soon. we've got a few billion people to spare.
    that humans going extinct is such a bad thing....sure other members on top of the food chain wouldn't mind.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    onelongsong wrote:
    i welcome your opinion as it gives me a different perspective. some time back here; someone told a story about a friend that went to jail; became homosexual; then went back to his wife when he got out. (i left out a lot of details).
    the need to breed is built into all of us. every animal has it. humans also have the desire for pleasure. i don't know if "any port in a storm" would apply but looking at the world; it seems to.

    and I've thought about this alot as well. I'm hetrosexual....feel that there's even something chemical inside me that drives my urges....and can't ever see myself playing for the other team (Seinfeld joke). That's why I have no problem what so ever with homosexuals...cause I think they have the exact same strong desire. Your post was interesting in the fact that I wonder if there have been studies on situations that you mention where a person is put in a different environment that changes their orientation. I can't see that happening to me, but do wonder if there's been any research.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    callen wrote:
    and I've thought about this alot as well. I'm hetrosexual....feel that there's even something chemical inside me that drives my urges....and can't ever see myself playing for the other team (Seinfeld joke). That's why I have no problem what so ever with homosexuals...cause I think they have the exact same strong desire. Your post was interesting in the fact that I wonder if there have been studies on situations that you mention where a person is put in a different environment that changes their orientation. I can't see that happening to me, but do wonder if there's been any research.

    I'm sure that was part of the control mechanism in the research I posted on page 2 (I think). Typically when they use identical twins to perform a study of genetics, they use twins that have been adopted by different families and twins that haven't. Though, I'm not entirely sure about that specific study, you'd have to look it up. You can look up the exact method used to determine the results.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    callen wrote:
    and I've thought about this alot as well. I'm hetrosexual....feel that there's even something chemical inside me that drives my urges....and can't ever see myself playing for the other team (Seinfeld joke). That's why I have no problem what so ever with homosexuals...cause I think they have the exact same strong desire. Your post was interesting in the fact that I wonder if there have been studies on situations that you mention where a person is put in a different environment that changes their orientation. I can't see that happening to me, but do wonder if there's been any research.

    i actually think there has been. i wish i could tell you where to start looking. behavioral sciences maybe? my ex-sister in law went to jail and did the same thing. she said it discusted her but she had no choice. she came out and became a bible toting holy roller but to each their own. sailors had a reputation for being homosexual while out to sea. monty python mentioned it in a song in the 70's. i'm sure there's research somewhere.
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I'm sure that was part of the control mechanism in the research I posted on page 2 (I think). Typically when they use identical twins to perform a study of genetics, they use twins that have been adopted by different families and twins that haven't. Though, I'm not entirely sure about that specific study, you'd have to look it up. You can look up the exact method used to determine the results.

    your post on bottom of page 3. Don't see link...but if I understand your post...points to the fact that identicle twins didn't necessarily match their twins sexuality..hence genetics was just an indicator..not absolute. Now I do think alot of people are bi-sexual..or repress their sexual desires due to social stigma...so how many of the identicle twins that didn't match were suppressing their real desires. One of my best freinds and coworker..just left his wife of 20 years and 2 kids because he suppressed his true orientation. If you do have the link please pass on.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    onelongsong wrote:
    i actually think there has been. i wish i could tell you where to start looking. behavioral sciences maybe? my ex-sister in law went to jail and did the same thing. she said it discusted her but she had no choice. she came out and became a bible toting holy roller but to each their own. sailors had a reputation for being homosexual while out to sea. monty python mentioned it in a song in the 70's. i'm sure there's research somewhere.

    aren't they all bi????...I'm Joking...yes bad taste I know.

    Seriously though...I'm still not convinced someone thats inherently biased towards one gender will make the switch due to environment...again I base this solely on my biological reaction to the opposit sex.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    NCfan wrote:
    It could be either or both I guess. But again, this wouldn't be normal. I point that out becuase many make the argument that homosexuality is normal. And I agree that it is normal, but in the same way it's normal for people to be born with downs, etc.... It's not supposed to happen but does.

    Seriously? NC fan I really think I need to hear your definition of normal please.
    You keep making sweeping generalizations about the "norm" or "normal people." What is normal in your eyes? No two people are exactly alike, not even identical twins. There are a percentage of the population who are heterosexual, there are a perctenage who are homosexual, there are a percentage who are infertile, there are a percentage born with birth defects, etc.,etc., etc., As far as I can see there is no "normal".
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Jeanie wrote:
    Seriously? NC fan I really think I need to hear your definition of normal please.
    You keep making sweeping generalizations about the "norm" or "normal people." What is normal in your eyes? No two people are exactly alike, not even identical twins. There are a percentage of the population who are heterosexual, there are a perctenage who are homosexual, there are a percentage who are infertile, there are a percentage born with birth defects, etc.,etc., etc., As far as I can see there is no "normal".

    if anyone finds normal please let me know. and why does normal keep changing? prior to 1630; it was normal to believe the sun revolved around the earth. prior to 1492; it was normal to believe the world was flat. and why do people equate sex with love? i watched the show "cheaters" and a woman cheated on her husband because he was always working. now she loves the guy she was having sex with. he said it was just sex; then she tried to get back with her husband.

    if it's morning down under.... gooday jeanie!
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    callen wrote:
    your post on bottom of page 3. Don't see link...but if I understand your post...points to the fact that identicle twins didn't necessarily match their twins sexuality..hence genetics was just an indicator..not absolute. Now I do think alot of people are bi-sexual..or repress their sexual desires due to social stigma...so how many of the identicle twins that didn't match were suppressing their real desires. One of my best freinds and coworker..just left his wife of 20 years and 2 kids because he suppressed his true orientation. If you do have the link please pass on.

    http://www.psych.northwestern.edu/psych/people/faculty/bailey/Publications/Bailey%20et%20al.%20twins,2000.pdf

    I haven't read it all yet, but I'll check into it a bit later.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    onelongsong wrote:
    if anyone finds normal please let me know. and why does normal keep changing? prior to 1630; it was normal to believe the sun revolved around the earth. prior to 1492; it was normal to believe the world was flat. and why do people equate sex with love? i watched the show "cheaters" and a woman cheated on her husband because he was always working. now she loves the guy she was having sex with. he said it was just sex; then she tried to get back with her husband.

    if it's morning down under.... gooday jeanie!

    Here! Here! onelongsong I agree. And yes it's morning here 10:11am Fri 8/12/06. So g'day to you!
    I read your post about the irises and the apes. Maybe it's still too early in the morning for me but I'll try to answer intelligently! I see what you are saying about the asians and germans coming from different apes. Not really plausible. But I think the reason that there have been no changes in Americans that came from other places is because 2 or 300 hundred years is not long enough for this to happen. Doesn't that kind of change take 1000's of years? I mean if you look at it over millions of years how can we really know that we didn't come from apes and we just haven't found the exact genetic link yet? What is your theory on this? :) And if we didn't come from the apes then what is your theory on where we come from please?
    BTW what time is it there? And I do love irises. :D
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    onelongsong wrote:
    i welcome your opinion as it gives me a different perspective. some time back here; someone told a story about a friend that went to jail; became homosexual; then went back to his wife when he got out. (i left out a lot of details).
    the need to breed is built into all of us. every animal has it. humans also have the desire for pleasure. i don't know if "any port in a storm" would apply but looking at the world; it seems to.

    you know i don't believe that prison sex = homosexuality. if you are in the exclusive company of your own sex and the urge to copulate is primal(as i believe it to be) then it doesn't necessarily matter where you get it from, as long as you're getting it.
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  • shmap
    shmap Posts: 375
    Ahnimus wrote:
    http://www.psych.northwestern.edu/psych/people/faculty/bailey/Publications/Bailey%20et%20al.%20twins,2000.pdf

    I haven't read it all yet, but I'll check into it a bit later.

    Oh lord...J. Michael Bailey. He teaches Human Sexuality at my alma mater. I took that class with him, a seriously nutty guy, don't really trust him. And his research also leaves much to be desired: http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/LynnsReviewOfBaileysBook.html
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Jeanie wrote:
    Here! Here! onelongsong I agree. And yes it's morning here 10:11am Fri 8/12/06. So g'day to you!
    I read your post about the irises and the apes. Maybe it's still too early in the morning for me but I'll try to answer intelligently! I see what you are saying about the asians and germans coming from different apes. Not really plausible. But I think the reason that there have been no changes in Americans that came from other places is because 2 or 300 hundred years is not long enough for this to happen. Doesn't that kind of change take 1000's of years? I mean if you look at it over millions of years how can we really know that we didn't come from apes and we just haven't found the exact genetic link yet? What is your theory on this? :) And if we didn't come from the apes then what is your theory on where we come from please?
    BTW what time is it there? And I do love irises. :D

    it's 4:31 pm thursday.
    answering honestly; i don't know where we came from. i only know i'm here. i know this sounds like a cop out but it's the way i feel. i don't care why i am; just that i am. i don't care how the fly got into the house; only that i'm gonna kill this bloody fly. if i came from an ape; cool; but where did the ape come from?
    maybe it's just my mood today but i don't care where i came from because knowing won't change anything or even help anything. the world is so messed up i'd rather focus my attention to the here and now.

    bearded german iris?

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