The Truth about Tolerance

thankyougrandma

surferdude wrote:

Outside of the language laws Quebec's track record is equivalent to the rest of Canada's. But somehow it has a bit of a xenophobe tag, possibly due to an outspoken wife of a political party leader. In order for Quebec to be a leader in addressing the issue they must also try to address their image problem.

you lost me for the wife thing

As for the "tag" and image problems, they are not the problems of Quebec, but they are the problems of those believing in them, and mostly the problems of those spreading them, once you could include Canadian govt. in this category, i believe Stephen Harper is respecting Quebec (or french canadians overall) a lot more than previous govt. The major problem right now is in canadian medias, mostly (if not entirely) english medias. So Quebec should just keep going, nothing you can do about the sterotypes, hell some idots even find ways to link the Dawson's shootings to the Quebec language laws, anyway that was my point.

surferdude

thankyougrandma wrote:

you lost me for the wife thing.

When the one politician's wife blamed their party loss on immigrants. That's so xenophobic it's hard to shake. Unfortunately the wife was a prominent enough person that the whole province gets tagged with being a bit xenophobic.

thankyougrandma

surferdude wrote:

When the one politician's wife blamed their party loss on immigrants. That's so xenophobic it's hard to shake. Unfortunately the wife was a prominent enough person that the whole province gets tagged with being a bit xenophobic.

BTW, are you talking about Jacques Parizeau? If yes it not his wife, he did say this. He did resign after his comments, and said on many times it was a mistake, sure you can tag all you want from there.

But most importantly, thanks to make my point, one person's opinion is enough to tag a 7 millions souls provinces as xenophobic. I have nothing to add on this.

surferdude

thankyougrandma wrote:

BTW, are you talking about Jacques Parizeau? If yes it not his wife, he did say this. He did resign after his comments, and said on many times it was a mistake, sure you can tag all you want from there.

But most importantly, thanks to make my point, one person's opinion is enough to tag a 7 millions souls provinces as xenophobic. I have nothing to add on this.

When that person is a leader, yes. We treated all of Germany as an enemy because of the leadership of Hitler. That's the way it works.

The apology is nice but a little too late. Look at all the people willing to label Mel Gibson as anti-semetic even though he apologized. Look at the media people who flat out said they'd never support another Mel Gibson movie.

Might as well condemn all mankind then. Just look around this board and how some Canadians hate Harper based on old things he siad. Or hate the US just because of Bush.

thankyougrandma

surferdude wrote:

When that person is a leader, yes. We treated all of Germany as an enemy because of the leadership of Hitler. That's the way it works.

The apology is nice but a little too late. Look at all the people willing to label Mel Gibson as anti-semetic even though he apologized. Look at the media people who flat out said they'd never support another Mel Gibson movie.

Might as well condemn all mankind then. Just look around this board and how some Canadians hate Harper based on old things he siad. Or hate the US just because of Bush.

Well you mix things up a bit mind you, Parizeau never killed anyone but the Nazi=Quebec comparison is always a trend to make Quebec and separatist look bad. Plus you said it, this man's opinion is use to stereotype every Quebecers, and you still try to defend that fact which is a non-sense for me. Separatist were the most angry and were the one "suffering" the most for these words.

Mel Gibson did not bring a feeling of stereotypes against the USA populations as being anti-semit, about Harper, he said those things but never said he changed his mind, and still, nobody said that Canadians in general were this and that because of him. I'm not sure where we're trying to get at. My point to all this, is that Canada is not better than Quebec concerning minorities, neither is the opposite.

surferdude

thankyougrandma wrote:

My point to all this, is that Canada is not better than Quebec concerning minorities, neither is the opposite.

I fully agree with this. But this is not the public perception.

OutOfBreath

Another piece about how we must not dilute our western (and christian, no?) values, written by a man who deep inside admires what he view as a "well-done" on the part of muslims to energize "their culture". A wrong-headed view for both sides, and building up under the thesis of inevitable civilizational conflict. Again, yawn.

My take would be to have tolerance to let evryone do what they like in such issues, "western values" be damned (or isnt this really the western values we hold dear?), and show them how it is to live in a multicultural society. (which the large majority absorbs and lives with) The "purity" of our ideals in this context is at best problematic, as they seem to be ever-changing, allowing for new-comers to adapt it to their wishes, while at the same time making them conform to a large degree. Culture and values always change. There is no "us" and "them" unless you want it to be.

And the pretense of the argument that "we are so good, we'll allow the bastards to take us over" is almost below my dignity to answer. If our culture and values are superior, then they will prevail. If people truly value freedom and liberal ideals, well I guess they will keep on.

But some people like the idea of being persecuted, and needs a simple enemy to hate and fear.

Peace
Dan