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For those that oppose the war in Iraq...

NCfanNCfan Posts: 945
edited May 2007 in A Moving Train
If U.S. troops pull back from Iraq, what do you think will happen in that country? Obviously I'm in favor of the troops being there, but I'm not trying to bait anybody. I'm just curious as to how you guys see this scenario playing out if they leave. In fact I'm not going to post any more in this thread - I just want to see what you guys think.
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  • dunkmandunkman Posts: 19,646
    NCfan wrote:
    If U.S. troops pull back from Iraq, what do you think will happen in that country?


    then UK troops would still be there along with all the U.N. troops and other nations that have sent forces... its not just US forces that are there.
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    NCfan wrote:
    If U.S. troops pull back from Iraq, what do you think will happen in that country? Obviously I'm in favor of the troops being there, but I'm not trying to bait anybody. I'm just curious as to how you guys see this scenario playing out if they leave. In fact I'm not going to post any more in this thread - I just want to see what you guys think.

    If the troops pull out now the country will disintegrate in a way worse than anything we saw in Yugoslavia. The fact many people believe that the troops need to remain in Iraq to prevent and all out bloodbath doesn't justify the occupation. The invasion and occupation were wrong to begin with. The long terms consequences of that monumental fuck-up are now anyone's guess.
  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    The same thing as now except without US troops getting killed. Then as was done in the wild west of the US, somebody will finally rid one of the cultures (as the whites did to the redman) and the ruling party will try to keep it together for a while. They would probably draw up their own map and section the place off to the sects that live there. If that didn't work I am sure that if other border nations felt like they needed to send some troops in to stiffle anything that would be up to them. As I figure that the nations living next to Iraq probably have a better pulse on it then the US does from waaaaaay over here. And we can cry that Iran or Syria or whoever may not bring a better way but from what I have seen the US didn't make any friends or great strides in doing anything for the common person of Iraq. Was Saddam perfect? No. Did he keep things in order? Yes. Sure he killed a few people with gas but if I was a small voice and had a super powers backing only to have them leave after we rose up. Well I can tell you this. I would not care which Superman cape they had on the next time they came knocking on my door. But I would be the first to be making sure they got out of my county as fast as possible.

    Let them sort it out. Are we going to see anything worse then what we are now? NO!
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Byrnzie wrote:
    If the troops pull out now the country will disintegrate in a way worse than anything we saw in Yugoslavia.
    so why let that happen?
    Byrnzie wrote:
    The fact many people believe that the troops need to remain in Iraq to prevent and all out bloodbath doesn't justify the occupation. The invasion and occupation were wrong to begin with. The long terms consequences of that monumental fuck-up are now anyone's guess.
    so you want everyone to leave and let a bloothbath happen out of spite?
  • dunkmandunkman Posts: 19,646
    its so egotistical that people think that its only US troops that are there....
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    dunkman wrote:
    is so egotistical that people think that its only US troops that are there....
    your right man. UK and all others are equally as brave. I'm glad you pointed it out.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jlew24asu wrote:
    so why let that happen?

    I didn't say we should.
    jlew24asu wrote:
    so you want everyone to leave and let a bloothbath happen out of spite?

    No.
  • DerrickDerrick Posts: 475
    I've said it before and I'll say it again. The US will _never_ leave Iraq. The US still has sizable bases in Germany ffs.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Derrick wrote:
    I've said it before and I'll say it again. The US will _never_ leave Iraq. The US still has sizable bases in Germany ffs.

    U.S troops aren't under daily attack in Germany though.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Byrnzie wrote:
    U.S troops aren't under daily attack in Germany though.

    Nor do they have a policy of aggression there.
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  • dunkmandunkman Posts: 19,646
    Derrick wrote:
    The US still has sizable bases in Germany ffs.


    that was only to keep an eye on Russia/USSR

    the US has bases on every corner of the world... purely to keep an eye on people, countries, whatever
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Byrnzie wrote:
    I didn't say we should.

    No.
    ok
  • inmytreeinmytree Posts: 4,741
    even flow? wrote:
    The same thing as now except without US troops getting killed. Then as was done in the wild west of the US, somebody will finally rid one of the cultures (as the whites did to the redman) and the ruling party will try to keep it together for a while. They would probably draw up their own map and section the place off to the sects that live there. If that didn't work I am sure that if other border nations felt like they needed to send some troops in to stiffle anything that would be up to them. As I figure that the nations living next to Iraq probably have a better pulse on it then the US does from waaaaaay over here. And we can cry that Iran or Syria or whoever may not bring a better way but from what I have seen the US didn't make any friends or great strides in doing anything for the common person of Iraq. Was Saddam perfect? No. Did he keep things in order? Yes. Sure he killed a few people with gas but if I was a small voice and had a super powers backing only to have them leave after we rose up. Well I can tell you this. I would not care which Superman cape they had on the next time they came knocking on my door. But I would be the first to be making sure they got out of my county as fast as possible.

    Let them sort it out. Are we going to see anything worse then what we are now? NO!


    I agree with this post...

    I guess we can play the game of "what if"...A wise man once told me "If if were a fifth, we'd all be drunk"...I say let them sort it out...

    I'm thinking that the powers that be and those who support the US staying are more concerned about the "what if's" pertaining to Iraq becoming a place that is unfriendly to the US...well, they should have thought about that years ago...our credibility is shot...at this point, there is little we can do to change that...

    it's time to pull back and punt...
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    I think we would continue to see the violence we see now. It would probably increase and the possibility of an all out civil war does exist. I can understand why people would want to stay. I don't want to see the Iraqi people suffer anymore than they have already, but unfortunetly the problems in Iraq can't be fixed with military strength. It is a political problem that needs a political solution not more troops. Our government is going about this the wrong way. We refuse to see that the current Iraqi government is inept. They can't accomplish much because there is a large protion of the elected officials who can't or will not put aside sectarian differences for the sake of a unified Iraq. We also refuse to focus on the contributions that other countries, namely Saudi Arabia, are making to promote the strife. We focus on Syria and Iran, but because of political reasons, I assume, we over look the Saudies.

    From day one this mission has been a failure because we approached it in the wrong manner and we continue to do so only making slight changes to our plan, if you can call it a plan, that really aren't having the necessary effects. We either need to completely change course, start instituting politicals solutions to the problem, or get the hell out. We can't be expected to fix a country where so many of it's people don't want to fix anyway.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • Steve DunneSteve Dunne Posts: 4,965
    dunkman wrote:
    that was only to keep an eye on Russia/USSR

    ...and Germany...and Japan...
    I love to turn you on
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    dunkman wrote:
    its so egotistical that people think that its only US troops that are there....


    out of the 158,902 troops currently in Iraq 150,000 are american. thats roughly 95%


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multinational_force_in_Iraq


    i wouldnt call that egotistical, i would call that the facts


    edit: not to mention the 200,000 mercenaries on the ground as well. again probably approx 95% of them are american
  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
    does the "shadow army" leave also?
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    No easy answer.....having American troops over there is just flaming the fire....we won't be able to kill every Arab thats recruited to fight his holy war. Soooo what do we do...once Dubya's out..we make a public appoligy for your screw ups.....then maybe we can enlist other countries to come to our aid..yes our aid. Give some of the spoils of war to the French....the Germans...the Russians...and mostly to other Arab countries. If this doesn't work....we have to get out....we can not maintain this bloodshed...on either side...just making it worse and worse...yes there will be a vacuum....many people will be slaughtered....BUT....its going to happen. We can't stop it......Sadaam had this tiger caged..and we let it loose. I just hope the current administration receives proper justice for this total f-up.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    NCfan wrote:
    If U.S. troops pull back from Iraq, what do you think will happen in that country? Obviously I'm in favor of the troops being there, but I'm not trying to bait anybody. I'm just curious as to how you guys see this scenario playing out if they leave. In fact I'm not going to post any more in this thread - I just want to see what you guys think.
    ...
    The same thing that'll happen when the American military leaves Iraq in 2009... or 2019... or 9012... You can only point a gun at two people that want to kill each other and make them NOT kill each other for so long.
    ...
    Now.. let me ask you a question... or two. I hear that the cost of freedom isn't Free... how much does it cost?
    And at what number of dead American soldiers do 'acceptable' losses become 'unacceptable'?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Bu2Bu2 Posts: 1,693
    NCfan wrote:
    If U.S. troops pull back from Iraq, what do you think will happen in that country? Obviously I'm in favor of the troops being there, but I'm not trying to bait anybody. I'm just curious as to how you guys see this scenario playing out if they leave. In fact I'm not going to post any more in this thread - I just want to see what you guys think.

    ....and this would only happen if enough anger shakes the very wealthy status quo, which means it won't happen at all....

    What will happen is that we won't pull back our troops from Iraq until after the Primary Elections. And even that won't be a large enough pull back.

    What will happen until that point is that Bush will do everything he can to maintain the status quo.

    Any questions?
    Feels Good Inc.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Bu2 wrote:
    ....and this would only happen if enough anger shakes the very wealthy status quo, which means it won't happen at all....

    What will happen is that we won't pull back our troops from Iraq until after the Primary Elections. And even that won't be a large enough pull back.

    What will happen until that point is that Bush will do everything he can to maintain the status quo.

    Any questions?

    The planning of US bases in Iraq was in the works in GB I's time. Maybe before. This is a long-term money maker...everything else (the politics) is just fluff.
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  • Bu2Bu2 Posts: 1,693
    gue_barium wrote:
    The planning of US bases in Iraq was in the works in GB I's time. Maybe before. This is a long-term money maker...everything else (the politics) is just fluff.

    Or is that Hal?
    Feels Good Inc.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Bu2 wrote:
    Or is that Hal?

    Daisy..
    daaaaisy..
    tell me yoooour answer true...
    i'm half crazy...
    all for the LUB of YOUB
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  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Seriously... how do War Supporters see this panning out?
    How long is too long? How are you planning to MAKE Shi'ites and Sunnis end their 1200 year old religious based hatred of each other? Do we need to station 140,000 combat ready troops there... or can that number be drawn down? How do we exit? Can we quietly sneak out the back door when no ones looking? Won't they notice that we've gone and start their bullshit all over again?
    And I know Conservatives hate throwing good money on bad money... I know I do... how much is too much? When is it going to be seen as 'waste'? We're just past the half a trillion (TAXPAYER) dollar mark... are we good for a Trillion? Two Trillion? What?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    It's pretty simple: stop the aggressor role.

    It won't happen though, they've got another whatever how many billion to keep bullying the Iraqi people around for awhile. Woohoo! And, apparently, they're taking away guns from the citizens as of January, per the puppet prime minister or president, or whatever the fuck he is. Does anyone here even know the name of the "democratically" elected leader of Iraq right now?

    Fucking Bush and Cheney need to be taken out to the woodshed.

    And shot.
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  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Cosmo wrote:
    Seriously... how do War Supporters see this panning out?
    How long is too long? How are you planning to MAKE Shi'ites and Sunnis end their 1200 year old religious based hatred of each other? Do we need to station 140,000 combat ready troops there... or can that number be drawn down? How do we exit? Can we quietly sneak out the back door when no ones looking? Won't they notice that we've gone and start their bullshit all over again?
    And I know Conservatives hate throwing good money on bad money... I know I do... how much is too much? When is it going to be seen as 'waste'? We're just past the half a trillion (TAXPAYER) dollar mark... are we good for a Trillion? Two Trillion? What?

    This is Gold Rush days for the Neocons. They're moving at a speed faster than we dare to comprehend. This is their element, this is their time.
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  • Strangest TribeStrangest Tribe Posts: 2,502
    I have a proposition:

    Everybody that still supports our involvement in Iraq should volunteer 1 year of their life and go over there and see if they can sort things out.

    Any takers?

    I'm calling you out c'mon...

    get up and do something instead of risking others lives.
    the Minions
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    gue_barium wrote:
    This is Gold Rush days for the Neocons. They're moving at a speed faster than we dare to comprehend. This is their element, this is their time.

    True. They'll cash in regardless. People like Paperplates et al will benefit in no way whatsoever from this war. The fat cats at Halliburton will get rich out of it whatever happens. And that's the whole point. The U.S Government and the big corporations - is there any difference? - don't give a fuck about the U.S men and women over there dying and getting maimed every day. This is a gold rush for them, pure and simple. I'd go so far as to say that anyone who supports the Bush Administration is a traitor to their people.
  • PaperPlatesPaperPlates Posts: 1,745
    Byrnzie wrote:
    True. They'll cash in regardless. People like Paperplates et al will benefit in no way whatsoever from this war. The fat cats at Halliburton will get rich out of it whatever happens. And that's the whole point. The U.S Government and the big corporations - is there any difference? - don't give a fuck about the U.S men and women over there dying and getting maimed every day. This is a gold rush for them, pure and simple. I'd go so far as to say that anyone who supports the Bush Administration is a traitor to their people.

    Any particular reason you chose to use my name here? Do you have a man-crush on me>?
    Why go home

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  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    PaperPlates wrote:
    Any particular reason you chose to use my name here? Do you have a man-crush on me>?

    Your name is representative of a particular type on this message board. Fortunately there's only a few of you. Most people on the board are decent, reasonable types - like Jlew for example, who, despite having opposing views to myself, doesn't feel the need to resort to personal abuse whenever he happens to be challenged on anything.
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