Democratic party is destroying itself

lazymoon13

Pj_Gurl wrote:

why is it a concern of yours? where do you sit?

I never said I was a concerned. I'm simply stating what I see happening. as an american, however, it concerns me to see other fellow americans so divided within one party.

Anon

lazymoon13 wrote:

wow theres a wiki page! cool! so any thoughts on the democratic party tearing itself apart?

Do you think that if Hillary spent more time campaigning for what she believes in, instead of hurting the party at any cost, people would not despise her so much?? I didn't just wake up one day and decide that i disliked Hillary. She did a good enough job to convince me i shouldn't vote for her ever, all by herself, by the way she has conducted herself during the campaign.

Her callous outburst that McCain is a more experienced leader in international affairs and would better handling a crisis than Obama, showed that she no longer cares about America or the American People, just her fight to stay alive in a political campaign she is losing. Her hesitation and vague answer when asked if she believed Obama was a Muslim, just added fire to a rumor the Republicans have been spreading for months. Like c'mon Hillary?? If i wrote down all the reasons i wouldn't vote for her this would become a pretty big post. I could go on and on but i think you get my point.. She seems to have forgotten the big picture. This is about America, not Hillary.

lazymoon13

Pj_Gurl wrote:

Do you think that if Hillary spent more time campaigning for what she believes in, instead of hurting the party at any cost, people would not despise her so much?? I didn't just wake up one day and decide that i disliked Hillary. She did a good enough job to convince me i shouldn't vote for her ever, all by herself, by the way she has conducted herself during the campaign.

Her callous outburst that McCain is a more experienced leader in international affairs and would better handling a crisis than Obama, showed that she no longer cares about America or the American People, just her fight to stay alive in a political campaign she is losing. Her hesitation and vague answer when asked if she believed Obama was a Muslim, just added fire to a rumor the Republicans have been spreading for months. Like c'mon Hillary?? If i wrote down all the reasons i wouldn't vote for her this would become a pretty big post. I could go on and on but i think you get my point.. She seems to have forgotten the big picture. This is about America, not Hillary.

thats a fine opinion, I respect that.... but this isn't about which candidate you support or oppose. its about the deep split among democrats.
in may not be evident on this board but there are millions of people who support hilary as fiercely as some support obama.

anotherclone

lazymoon13 wrote:

Hilary is/has won the states with the most electoral votes...or by some analysis, better chances to beat mccain based on electoral votes. california, florida, ohio...among others.

I mean no disrespect to you. Seriously. It just made me giggle that you mention "by some analysis"...considering that every time I turn around, Hillary has some new sort of map, poll, or convoluted demographic analysis to show how she should or could be the winner, but still comes up short where it matters the most.

Actual votes and delegates.

To me, it just seems kind of lame and pathetic for Hillary to talk about how she "could" or "should" win, but still, she isn't actually the one winning.

lazymoon13

anotherclone wrote:

I mean no disrespect to you. Seriously. It just made me giggle that you mention "by some analysis"...considering that every time I turn around, Hillary has some new sort of map, poll, or convoluted demographic analysis to show how she should or could be the winner, but still comes up short where it matters the most.

Actual votes and delegates.

To me, it just seems kind of lame and pathetic for Hillary to talk about how she "could" or "should" win, but still, she isn't.

I actually read that from a governor (cant remember which state) who supports her and he made a very good case how hilary has won key states. many of those same people will refuse to vote for obama meaning those states (and electoral votes) could possibly go to mccain. I'll try and find the article.

slightofjeff

WMA wrote:

I'm really more concerned about the Republican party though. There is no way they can win with such a weak candidate.

are you kidding? McCain will eat Hillary for lunch if she's nominated.

Obama might be trickier ... because he's smooth. But he has soft spots to attack if McCain wants to play hard ball. Isn't he outpolling both democratic candidates right now? Last poll I saw, he was.

He's not my favorite candidate, but I think he'd be an OK president.

WMA

slightofjeff wrote:

are you kidding? McCain will eat Hillary for lunch if she's nominated.

Obama might be trickier ... because he's smooth. But he has soft spots to attack if McCain wants to play hard ball. Isn't he outpolling both democratic candidates right now? Last poll I saw, he was.

He's not my favorite candidate, but I think he'd be an OK president.

He's been getting a free ride lately with all of the attention on the Dems, but I bet things will catch up with him once the democratic candidate is chosen.

There has been record turnouts to the primaries for democrats - dwarfing the Republican numbers(while there was still many R candidates), and I find it hard to believe that Clinton/Obama supporters would turn their back on party ideals just because their favorite candidate wasn't chosen.

I think the polling numbers show the divide between Obama/Clinton supporters at the moment. Some claim that they would choose Mccain over their non-chosen democrat, but I think it more likely they'd either still vote D or at the worst, not vote. Vote opposite your ideals because your first choice isn't in?

I guess we'll see what happens.

Abookamongstthemany

WMA wrote:

He's been getting a free ride lately with all of the attention on the Dems, but I bet things will catch up with him once the democratic candidate is chosen.

There has been record turnouts to the primaries for democrats - dwarfing the Republican numbers(while there was still many R candidates), and I find it hard to believe that Clinton/Obama supporters would turn their back on party ideals just because their favorite candidate wasn't chosen.

I think the polling numbers show the divide between Obama/Clinton supporters at the moment. Some claim that they would choose Mccain over their non-chosen democrat, but I think it more likely they'd either still vote D or at the worst, not vote. Vote opposite your ideals because your first choice isn't in?

I guess we'll see what happens.

What's their party's ideals again?

WMA

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

What's their party's ideals again?

To prevent the supreme court from becoming overloaded with activist judges?


I suppose it depends on the individual, and why they choose to be a democrat.

It looks like it'll be either a democrat or the republican winning, and I gather that you don't like either choice...

So I'll just leave it there.

anotherclone

lazymoon13 wrote:

I actually read that from a governor (cant remember which state) who supports her and he made a very good case how hilary has won key states. many of those same people will refuse to vote for obama meaning those states (and electoral votes) could possibly go to mccain. I'll try and find the article.

Naw. Don't worry about doing that. I've read and heard the same type of analysis from her campaign or supporters.

Still, it doesn't mean diddly-squat. At this point, it is really a LOT of speculation what would happen in a final.

macgyver06

they destroyed themselves when they pushed Hillary and Obama and not Gravel.

anotherclone

macgyver06 wrote:

they destroyed themselves when they pushed Hillary and Obama and not Gravel.

A friend of mine really likes Mike Gravel. It really is kind of too bad that he didn't do better.

Isn't he going to continue on as an "Independent", or something like that?

cornnifer

lazymoon13 wrote:

why am I not surprised you feel this way. lets say by some miracle hilary wins the nom. would you vote for her? I didnt think so. guess what guy, many people on the obamamanic side feel the same way.

.

No. You would be correct in assuming that i would not vote for hilary. There is no way in a frozen hell i would. Keep in mind, however that i say that not as an Obama supporter (though i am very much one), but as a citizen. If Obama had never been a candidate, i STILL would never vote for her. It has nothing to do with the bitter rivalry between the two. i also am not one of those who would cut off my nose to spite my face by voting for McCain as some, on both sides, are suggesting. A much more likely scenario would be me staying at home and watching a movie instead. If hilary manages to slime her way into the nomination, i will, most likely, not vote at all.
i also think its worthy of note that, though i'm definitely no republican, and i lean to the left, i have no party allegiances. Those card carrying democrats will more than likely vote for whichever candidate the party nominates. No democrat who oposes the war or is concerned with supreme court appointments will vote for McCain. i don't care what kind of shit their talking right now.

macgyver06

anotherclone wrote:

A friend of mine really likes Mike Gravel. It really is kind of too bad that he didn't do better.

Isn't he going to continue on as an "Independent", or something like that?

he is now running as the libertarian candidate

lazymoon13

cornnifer wrote:

No. You would be correct in assuming that i would not vote for hilary. There is no way in a frozen hell i would. Keep in mind, however that i say that not as an Obama supporter (though i am very much one), but as a citizen. If Obama had never been a candidate, i STILL would never vote for her. It has nothing to do with the bitter rivalry between the two. i also am not one of those who would cut off my nose to spite my face by voting for McCain as some, on both sides, are suggesting. A much more likely scenario would be me staying at home and watching a movie instead. If hilary manages to slime her way into the nomination, i will, most likely, not vote at all.
i also think its worthy of note that, though i'm definitely no republican, and i lean to the left, i have no party allegiances. Those card carrying democrats will more than likely vote for whichever candidate the party nominates. No democrat who oposes the war or is concerned with supreme court appointments will vote for McCain. i don't care what kind of shit their talking right now.

it just seems that many card carrying dems feel as passionate as you do about their candidate. I'd wouldnt be surprised if the many didnt vote. and in a race this tight, not voting hurts.

cornnifer

lazymoon13 wrote:

it just seems that many card carrying dems feel as passionate as you do about their candidate. I'd wouldnt be surprised if the many didnt vote. and in a race this tight, not voting hurts.

Its a scare tactic. "Nominate my candidate or i'll vote for McCain, damn it."

i call bullshit. Nader may benefit slightly from the current party division. McCain won't. He'll still beat clinton very easily, but it won't be because of a large number of democrat defectors. Independant voters are another story. Hilary will not get any. They will go overwhelmingly for McCain in a matchup with clinton.

lazymoon13

cornnifer wrote:

Its a scare tactic. "Nominate my candidate or i'll vote for McCain, damn it."

i call bullshit. Nader may benefit slightly from the current party division. McCain won't. He'll still beat clinton very easily, but it won't be because of a large number of democrat defectors. Independant voters are another story. Hilary will not get any. They will go overwhelmingly for McCain in a matchup with clinton.

well the race is still close between obama/mccain. I think with all the BS going on with the democratic party, many independents may go to the right. thats why the play the game!

lazymoon13

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/20/dems.penn/index.html

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

nobody will remember this in November

mammasan

The Democratic party is definitely in trouble. Hillary and Obama are basically doing McCain's job for him without him having to spend a single penny. While the two of them duke it out and sling mud at each other more and more independents will slip through their fingers. They may not go McCain's way but more likely to a third party candidate.

The problem as I see it is that the Republicans have always been better organized. While McCain may not have the best support within his own party none of them will cross the aisle and vote for Hillary or Obama nor will they chance it by voting third party. They will stick to McCain because to them he is the lesser of three evils, at this point.

Just like in 2004 the Democrats will squander away what could have been an easy victory.

The only hope I can carry away from this election year is that enough people get sick and tired of the typical shit we are handed by the Dems and Reps and look elsewhere for a candidate to represent them. While a third party candidate will have no chance of winning the White House if enough people do vote third party it will hopefully send a message to Washington that the two party monopoly may be coming to and end. That they can no longer sit upon their thrown without fear of loosing their grasp on power.